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- Jul 31, 2014
Super Smash Bros.
- Thread starter PrimeCutDiggityDog
- Start date
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
I still think Wolf does not belong in Super Smash Bros.
And I don't have a Wii U or 3DS, so I'm not getting the game.
And I don't have a Wii U or 3DS, so I'm not getting the game.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
This was the most useless shitpost I have ever seen.
"Controversial statement.
I have nothing to add to this discussion."
10/10
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- Aug 3, 2014
Wolf was intended to be in before Falco. On top of this, he brought way more to the table in Brawl than Falco did in any game he was in. All of his A moves are completely different and his B moves have enough alterations to them that they're funcionally different from Fox's. Wolf is also a villain/rival which is something Smash lacks.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
Ran across a few cool interviews you guys might want to see. They are cool but Soccer-eye triggered me. They were all from Famitsu just yesterday.
How Sakurai chooses the roster:
Sakurai's thoughts on Smash 4's 3 Clones:
How Sakurai chooses the roster:
“We conduct a character popularity poll both domestically and internationally. We also research games that are currently being developed. After that, it’s pretty much up to us, with a touch of convenience.”
“There are a lot things to take into account when deciding [characters]. Does the character have something inherently unique about them? Can that be used to make Smash Bros. interesting? Is the character a representative character [for the source material]? Do they conflict at all with other characters? Was there anything about them that stood out when we began development?”
“Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen. Also, fighters that switch models are a different matter.”
“Basically, any character is accepted if I believe it works [in the game]. On the other hand, even if a character is unique, if they overlap with other characters and aren’t unique as a fighter, they are rejected.”
“There are a lot things to take into account when deciding [characters]. Does the character have something inherently unique about them? Can that be used to make Smash Bros. interesting? Is the character a representative character [for the source material]? Do they conflict at all with other characters? Was there anything about them that stood out when we began development?”
“Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen. Also, fighters that switch models are a different matter.”
“Basically, any character is accepted if I believe it works [in the game]. On the other hand, even if a character is unique, if they overlap with other characters and aren’t unique as a fighter, they are rejected.”
Sakurai's thoughts on Smash 4's 3 Clones:
There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics. Since their functionality had differences, forms were separated from each other. However, it was vital that this didn’t increase the required man-hours. Some relative tuning was sufficient as it wasn’t necessary to create balancing from scratch.
Sakurai goes on to say that Lucina and Marth have different sword properties. While Dark Pit and Pit are the same, making Dark Pit a separate character was required in order to give him “his unique arm and Final Smash”. And as far as Dr. Mario is concerned, the team felt “old Dr. Mario fans would not agree to Dr. Mario being the same as Mario, so we went on to give him a unique customizable set.”
Sakurai next draws an interesting – if not a bit strange – analogy between eating out at restaurants and the clone characters in Smash Bros.:
This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”
Yet, I’m told [to do that] about Smash Bros. But, I guess since a lot of them are children, it cannot be helped.
Lastly, Sakurai ends his response with the following:
Sakurai goes on to say that Lucina and Marth have different sword properties. While Dark Pit and Pit are the same, making Dark Pit a separate character was required in order to give him “his unique arm and Final Smash”. And as far as Dr. Mario is concerned, the team felt “old Dr. Mario fans would not agree to Dr. Mario being the same as Mario, so we went on to give him a unique customizable set.”
Sakurai next draws an interesting – if not a bit strange – analogy between eating out at restaurants and the clone characters in Smash Bros.:
This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”
Yet, I’m told [to do that] about Smash Bros. But, I guess since a lot of them are children, it cannot be helped.
Lastly, Sakurai ends his response with the following:
Could you please leave it to me to select [characters] with man-hours and costs in mind? However you look at it, the game is a great bargain buy as a result.
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
I never gave one crap about clones - they did add more to the gameplay because there are that many more trophies to collect and more characters to say you've played through.
Heh, I totally loved playing as Pichu in Melee. I loved Mewtwo in Melee as well.
But one thing about the Smash fandom that I just don't understand is… the tiers. Do they REALLY need to be so important? I kicked ass so much on Ganondorf even though he was supposed to be the lowest tier of them all. Even if they DID exist (yes, I was on the opposing side of that debate) they weren't even necessary. Just play through the game and enjoy it!
Heh, I totally loved playing as Pichu in Melee. I loved Mewtwo in Melee as well.
But one thing about the Smash fandom that I just don't understand is… the tiers. Do they REALLY need to be so important? I kicked ass so much on Ganondorf even though he was supposed to be the lowest tier of them all. Even if they DID exist (yes, I was on the opposing side of that debate) they weren't even necessary. Just play through the game and enjoy it!
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
Tiers are for competitive dude. Characters are objectively better than others, but that does never mean you shouldn't ever not play as your favorite character because they aren't good. Go enjoy the game your way. But if you want to play competitively? Learn the tiers. Go look at some videos and tell me tiers don't exist and that there's no reason Meta Knight wasn't banned at every tournament in Brawl. I play competively and I don't give a shit about the tiers, I play who I like. But I still know they exist and are very important.
Clones are fine because they take like 3 days to make, and they aren't replacing other characters from the roster and just expanding on them. I like them if they are different enough. Mewtwo was not a clone though...? Why bring him up next to Pichu.
Also Ganondorf is really bipolar for lowest tier. He's slow as shit, but the thing that separates him from all the other 'bad characters' is his insane damage. He got some pretty great buffs in Smash 4 thankfully, he's much stronger now but he's still not the greatest.
Saying tiers don't exist is like saying betting odds for a sports team should be ignored, because those take in all kinds of data about each individual team and compare them against the other team.
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Oh God, I remember hearing about that "Meta-Knight thing." Something about its whirlwind attack making it invincible.
The same types of things were said about Ike. Something that died pretty quickly. That's why I don't give a crap about tier debates. ANYONE can master any character and beat any other character. I was a freaking master with Ganondorf one time. The Meta-Knight trick could only be performed by those skilled enough to pull it off.
The same types of things were said about Ike. Something that died pretty quickly. That's why I don't give a crap about tier debates. ANYONE can master any character and beat any other character. I was a freaking master with Ganondorf one time. The Meta-Knight trick could only be performed by those skilled enough to pull it off.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2013
You can do really well with any character you've mastered. I main Sonic, someone incredibly low of the tier list. You can't just say tiers don't exist though. If you hand two completely new players Meta Knight and Sonic it's not hard to predict the winner.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
Um no. Holy shit no. Ike is really bad, slow but uber strong, Meta Knight doesn't have one trick. Literally all of his moves were broken as shit. He got nerfed so hard in Smash 4- and he's STILL One of the best characters now. Let me show you just how bullshit Meta Knight can be in Brawl:
You can master every character sure, but tiers are not about saying each character is 100% weaker than another- they're about MATCH UPS. Certain characters are better at fighting other characters because everyone has different move sets. Tiers are determined by going through each character, studying their moves and pitting them against each character thousands of times. Meta Knight isn't the best character because he's stronger than any other character, he's the best because he has the most positive matchups because of his move set and how he can respond well to literally every fighter.
If you think you can master every character and make them competitively viable then my god
This is just how fighting games work.
Edit: Also I forgot, Diddy does win that match I posted but its still a perfect example of the bullshit Meta Knight is able to pull off.
Hey dude Sonic got buffed as shit in 4 ;D
Just letting you know. He's great now and is gonna be high tier, probably top of B they predict. He's annoying to fight against though but in a fun way.
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- Joined
- May 27, 2013
That video just makes me laugh and say "Nelson: HAW HAW!" You're absolutely right about match ups. You know how deadly Meta Knight is, yet you're using an awful character like Diddy Kong.
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- Jul 31, 2014
Diddy Kong is the 4th highest tier character and is actually great. Annoying as fuck to fight though.
But yeah, I wasn't trying to be mean so I'm sorry if I came off like that. You are right, every character can beat every character in the hands of a good player but like I said Tiers are only about match ups. Take a look at an example of it:
Meta Knight's matchups which are proven after thousands of battles of testing... Literally his only 'bad' matchups are a yellow warning sign against Pikachu, and neutral against HIMSELF. That's hilarious.
Meanwhile here's an example further down the tier list.
Mario was not that great in Brawl but he still had some good matchups, even against great characters like Jigglypuff. But that doesn't mean you couldn't win as him.
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- Aug 3, 2014
Diddy Kong was, like, the 4th highest on the Brawl tier list. He was incredible at being annoying.
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- Jun 21, 2013
I can do terrible things to people with Sonic on New Pork city.
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- May 27, 2013
New Pork City on its own is dangerous. A lot of places to chase your opponent, the Ultimate Chimera is EASY to smash any opponent into, but thank goodness I am so grateful this stage has brought the Mother 3 song "Hustle for Pride" to American audiences.
Du-dudu-duhduh-Duh-DUH! Du-nu nunu nunu nunu nunuh! Du-dudu-duhduh-Duh-DUH! Du-nu nunu nunu nunu nunuh!
Segue
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2014
You do understand how tiers are formed, right? They're made from results based on hundreds of matches with that character. They test a certain characters viability and how well said character can stand against the rest of the roster. Its true its possible to play as a character to the best of your ability and win, but that doesn't change a matchup. And Meta Knight is OP as hell.
Also New Pork City is cancer.