Super Smash Bros.

_01 said:
In terms of drama, the EVO discussion begins here in the Smash Community thread. Otherwise, grand finals was cool. MKLeo, a Joker player, managed to make a huge comeback (or, conversely, his opponent made a huge choke). MKLeo was down to his final stock in his final game, and he managed to do a 6-0 comeback, resetting the bracket and not dropping a single game after his first win.
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The biggest choke in history given Tweek was literally one input away from winning.

A Charizard winning EVO? That would have driven the whole fucking stadium mad, regardless of him putting in significantly less work than the other two Pokemon.
 
Nauseated Courgi said:
Mind sharing some screencaps?
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Forget admitting that MKLeo is a fucking god, NO! Let's all say that his character is OP.

Fuck them.
 
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casE sensiTive said:
It's going to turn out like Smash 4 isn't it?
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Smash 4 Bayonetta had something like a one-in-five pick rate or so. Joker is exceptionally rare, so it isn't comparable.
 
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Kurtains said:
Arsene is strong but I don't think it needs a nerf. Joker can still get insane kills if you know how to use the gun and grappling hook. Twitter isn't even trying.
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Arsene is a by-product of what actually makes Joker a good character. He has amazing confirms and 50/50s off of moves and has insane start-up on attacks that can kill. (B-Air straight up.) Sure, he can lead to some earlier kills but most of the time, even in MKLeo's hands, it's stuff like the drag down Up-Air and the off-stage B-Air that take games with or without him.
 
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Joker is undeniably good, but still isn't anywhere near as bad as Bayo was. In fact there is no Meta Knight/Bayo thus far in this iteration. If you want proof watch any competitive highlight video. The sheer diversity of characters you'll see trounces any of the previous games easily, the roster is balanced that well.

The only anomaly is Hero, who isn't outright OP so much as extremely inconsistent as a character in a competitive environment focused around skill. An RNG move or two is fine, those have been around since Melee, but nearly his entire moveset is based around it, with a gambit running from absolutely useless to just killing you at 0% for no reason.
 
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I bought Hero today to check out if he's good. His gimmicks are fun but you can punished really quickly if you keep using down b. Side b is a good tool to keep people from getting too close.

He's not OP as v1 bayo and doesn't deserve a ban in AU. Bayo had guarenteed kill combos at 0 while Hero's early kills is based on RNG. It's just luck if you get a wack that kills at 0 or a crit.
 
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If Joker is OP, he's "OP" in the same way Melee Fox is "OP": enormous potential, but you have to be an autistic savant to exploit it.

The only part of Hero's kit that can possibly be considered "OP" is the near-OHKO knockback on crits, and that's easily fixed whenever the Banjo patch drops. Orthodox fighting game players have no problem with RNG characters so I dunno why some Smash players are so hung up about it.
 
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Watched the final and I can say it was Tokido 2017 all over again: stronger player starts in a position of disadvantage and manage to came out on top breaking the other player confidence and will.
In both cases the set after the reset are almost complete pushover and the difference in skill really came out,Punk and Tweek almost stops giving a try after that
And lol at the twitter spergin: Joker is not Bayo or even Cloud,deal with it
 
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I'm glad they added very easy to World of Light cause I can unlock all the characters quicker and just have fun swatting dudes as Hero.
 
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King Kobra said:
Joker is not Bayo or even Cloud,deal with it
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I know that all the eyes were on Bayo during Smash 4 because she was just really fucking good, but I honestly feel like not enough of a shit was given about Cloud who I feel was even more toxic than Bayo. Your average Smash sperg who thinks he's hot shit because he bodies his little brothers couldn't play Bayo worth shit but even the most basic Clouds could pose a threat because of how basic and easy he was to play. Put it this way;

You needed to respect Bayo in the air because that was when she was at her strongest. This is why she was constantly jumping: to take advantage of her strongest state while staying off the ground where even Salem and Lima admitted she wasn't so great at.

By contrast, Cloud won games against 90% of all players simply by jumping. You couldn't shield his moves, nothing was fast or ranged enough to challenge his hitboxes, his fast-fall was absolutely the best in the game thanks to how broken Up-Air was, and often even rolling or running away was a bad option since he was faster than most characters and he was incredibly deadly in long games where he could spend the majority of it with Limit or charging Limit. And unlike Bayo, Cloud was still a monster on the ground thanks to his tilts and grab range.

Yes, Bayo at her best was unquestionably stronger than him, but Cloud being significantly easier to play and nearly as strong at most levels of play made tournaments with significant amount of players stacked incredibly in his favor. I remember going to large tournaments in my area and just seeing so many people get drowned out by dipshit Clouds who would choke against the real eSports players who grinded that match-up for weeks. Even some of my most competitive friends simply stopped playing at larger tournaments towards the end of Smash 4 simply because they were tired of playing the Cloud match-up.

And in that vein, yes, for a matter-of-fact Joker is nowhere near the half-way good that either of those characters were.

And of course, neither Smash 4 Cloud or Bayo hold a candle to Brawl Meta-Knight.

If Joker truly is the best character in Smash Ultimate, then he's the most balanced "best character" we've ever fucking had.
 
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