Tabletop Community Watch

[Corn Flakes]

In order:

First, I absolutely love the Salamanders as a chapter, partially due to the charm of having the demonic-looking pyromaniacs being one of the most dedicated to protecting civvies.

I'm with you. I love that the guys with the most indiscriminate weapons are at least trying. Plus their chapter symbol isn't a toilet seat, which is always nice.

Second, there is actually an entire chapter of subsaharan black marines: the Celestial Lions, a Fist successor. They’re not the most prominent, but they are bros with the Space Wolves, and the charm of 40k is often picking some of the more obscure chapters and regiments or making your own. After all, who had heard of the Blood Ravens before Dawn of War?

That's the problem with these people. They don't want to be creative. They want other people to give them what they want. 40K is and has always been about Your Dudes™. The canon is there to give players inspiration and a common point of reference. But there's plenty of weird shit in the canon that can be used to justify damn near everything so long as you're willing to accept the consequences. Everybody else has the right to do the same, and if someone doesn't like what someone else did with their personal chapter's canon? Tough luck.

You want your Space Marines to be fighting alongside the Tau? They'll be considered traitors and attacked on sight, but you could do that. Space Marine chapters have defected to much worse causes, after all, and not all of them did so due to Chaos. You want your Iron Hands successors to go completely overboard and be literally just brains in fully cybernetic bodies? Full cogitator-based Men of Iron? That's techno-heresy, but knock yourself out! Want to go full degenerate and have your entire Chapter wake up as women after their fleet was caught into a warp storm and the Geller Fields flickered? Now they're mutants and hunted down but at least you have your big tiddy psychopathic giant zealot GF. Kitbash some female heads into your Sergeants and special characters and have fun.

That's what the people screeching for representation could be doing instead. But they don't care. They don't want to have to go through the effort of creating something unique, fleshed-out and interesting. They want other people to do it for them.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

You want your Space Marines to be fighting alongside the Tau? They'll be considered traitors and attacked on sight, but you could do that. Space Marine chapters have defected to much worse causes, after all, and not all of them did so due to Chaos.

Hell, one of the "poster child" chapters, the Space Wolves, are basically one of Slaneesh's cunt hairs from being an outright rogue chapter. Their version of imperial doctrine is heretical, and the Inquisition has tried to purge them at least once. If their pappy wasn't one of the OG bros of the empire, they would probably be counted as Traitors twice over by now.

 

[SITHRAK!]

You are next

Historicals and Nazis

Idk if this is allowed because this about historical WWII wargames and not specifically Warhammer, but I have a Bolt Action related hang...

old.reddit.com

Nah, Reddit is a rubber room for SocJus fundamentalists. Anyone that critiques me for playing Waffen-SS gets the same explanation: I also play Brit Paras because my two forces were based around the battle of Arnhem. I also play Russians, that doesn’t mean I endorse the gang rape and summary execution of all captured civilian females over ten years of age.
People need to get a fucking grip and Reddit ain’t the place to do it.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Hell, one of the "poster child" chapters, the Space Wolves, are basically one of Slaneesh's cunt hairs from being an outright rogue chapter. Their version of imperial doctrine is heretical, and the Inquisition has tried to purge them at least once. If their pappy wasn't one of the OG bros of the empire, they would probably be counted as Traitors twice over by now.

Let's not forget them using literal Space Marine mutants as shock troops.

Because really, what displays the glory of humanity more than a slavering 10-foot tall werewolf in scraps of powered armor?

 

[SITHRAK!]

Two things:
First, I absolutely love the Salamanders as a chapter, partially due to the charm of having the demonic-looking pyromaniacs being one of the most dedicated to protecting civvies.
Second, there is actually an entire chapter of subsaharan black marines: the Celestial Lions, a Fist successor. They’re not the most prominent, but they are bros with the Space Wolves, and the charm of 40k is often picking some of the more obscure chapters and regiments or making your own. After all, who had heard of the Blood Ravens before Dawn of War?

Blood Ravens were created *FOR* Dawn of War.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

You know what?

I'm going to, very gently, defend some of the people who whine about not having an <X> chapter, or <X> minority representation in 40k, or whatever.

Not because I think they actually have a point. On that score, fuck 'em. But, no, the whole reason it's an issue is a lot of the rest of the fanbase is so fucking humorlessly serious about the setting. 40k was never meant to be a setting that was taken that seriously. The setting is ridiculous, intentionally so. The lore and canon has always been, at best, spotty, and while Games Workshop have tried to prune away much of the silly over the years, this is the setting that started out having space dwarves.

But now you have a legion of fanboys who will flip their Emperor-blessed shit if someone gets the lore wrong or does something against canon.

One of the best things to come out of the My Little Pony community was all the Warhammer 40k crossovers in fanfics, and the fact that there were people fielding Rainbow Dash or Fluttershy themed armies. Not because I really wanted to see that, but just because, fuck, someone needs to remind people to not take it so fucking *seriously* all the time.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

I now want to play Fluttershy themed Necrons, despite knowing absolutely nothing about actually playing the game.

 

[Corn Flakes]

You know what?

I'm going to, very gently, defend some of the people who whine about not having an <X> chapter, or <X> minority representation in 40k, or whatever.

Not because I think they actually have a point. On that score, fuck 'em. But, no, the whole reason it's an issue is a lot of the rest of the fanbase is so fucking humorlessly serious about the setting. 40k was never meant to be a setting that was taken that seriously. The setting is ridiculous, intentionally so. The lore and canon has always been, at best, spotty, and while Games Workshop have tried to prune away much of the silly over the years, this is the setting that started out having space dwarves.

But now you have a legion of fanboys who will flip their Emperor-blessed shit if someone gets the lore wrong or does something against canon.

One of the best things to come out of the My Little Pony community was all the Warhammer 40k crossovers in fanfics, and the fact that there were people fielding Rainbow Dash or Fluttershy themed armies. Not because I really wanted to see that, but just because, fuck, someone needs to remind people to not take it so fucking *seriously* all the time.

Oh, yeah. Totally. There's no whataboutism here, both camps are completely retarded. I've already said my piece on the representation-tards so I'll leave them to the side for a moment... because 40K lore autists are just about the most "actshually..." crowd you'll ever find on the internet.

I could understand this level of 'tism for a setting with well-defined and relatively well-maintained lore like BattleTech. And even that one has some weirdness in the lore that got carried through from the oddball early years, and the less said about the Dark Ages up to the fall of the Republic the better. Still, they've always at least tried to be consistent even if the aesthetics and story beats have evolved somewhat through the decades. Warhammer 40,000, though? It started as a fucking joke, a parody of their already completely off-the-wall Warhammer Fantasy setting. It started out more 80s than the goddamn 80s. Its narrative was always meant to be ridiculous, unreliable and retcon-ready.

And yet I still see spergs trying to nail down events not just to the year, but to down the month or even sometimes the day. Bitch, it's a galaxy in which there's literally a delay of months, if not years in communication between opposite corners of the Imperium. If a calendar was any more of a suggestion than the Imperial Calendar in 40K, it would be downright subliminal. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are people trying obstinately to make sense out of events that were described in completely different ways from edition to edition, instead of just assuming newer information invalidates old one. There are idiots trying to devise actual physical theories as to how Ork technology works (complete with energy calculations), or how Lasguns could "actually be pretty realistic". Or how Titans' internal systems would operate.

This is all Games Workshop's fault, though. The more they abandoned the humor and absurdity of the original 40K in favor of the Grim Darkness Of The Far Future, the more they catered to the turbo-autists. Sure, I like cutaways of bolter shells and schematics of how Dreadnoughts are built as much as the next nerd. But don't pretend 40K makes any sense. It exists to sell overpriced plastic and look metal, nothing else.

I now want to play Fluttershy themed Necrons, despite knowing absolutely nothing about actually playing the game.

Nah, man. Go with Fluttershy-themed Tyranids. Ravenous hordes of pastel yellow and pink giant space lizardbugs will see you through. You could even put butterfly wings on a winged Tyrant. And long, luscious pink manes on your Carnifexes.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Oh, yeah. Totally. There's no whataboutism here, both camps are completely retarded. I've already said my piece on the representation-tards so I'll leave them to the side for a moment... because 40K lore autists are just about the most "actshually..." crowd you'll ever find on the internet.

I think part of what happened is that you had sort of the "first wave" Warhammer fans who were big fans of some of the more over-the-top lore elements, like the Heresy! And the For the Emperor! and stuff like that... And they played that just close enough to straight that the *second* wave thought it was serious.

Although I say "first" and "second" waves, and that's not really accurate. I think it's more a generational thing. I got into Warhammer during Second Edition, and while they had already toned back the silly some, there was still a sense of "yeah, this is all in good fun" in what I remember of the community. Hell, I remember what got me into it at first was some rather fun looking Ork art I saw in a book in my FLGS when I was young. But sometime around the early 2000s, probably with the rise of the Internet and "meme culture" and shit, I think people just started to completely lose it.

Nah, man. Go with Fluttershy-themed Tyranids. Ravenous hordes of pastel yellow and pink giant space lizardbugs will see you through. You could even put butterfly wings on a winged Tyrant. And long, luscious pink manes on your Carnifexes.

Sides, 'nids are already sort of Chrysalis-themed.

 

[ExsanguinateHorizon]

40K is and has always been about Your Dudes™

They're probably going to be White Scars successors but I want to try making a Chapter with a 15th century Korean aesthetic, including the Geobukseon and Hwacha.

These discussions are maybe getting a little circular, the majority here agree progressives ruin everything and 40k isn't safe either. If anything it attracts them more, especially the harder the established community resists them. It's too bad this thread might be a little starved for content as long as lockdowns are in place. Maybe the built-up rage will be explosive once people are playing in physical groups again, there's usually good stories from conventions in particular.

 

[ZMOT]

I know it would be the end of my enjoyment of the hobby. I'd cash out on ebay and pick up Warmachine / Hordes or something instead, maybe wait for GW to fail as a business and the Warhammer IP to be picked up by like, Hasbro or something.

as others have said, PP is even more shit than GW. besides, you can hate GW but still think (some) of their models are pretty nice. for example I don't think there are many companies that do bolter bitches the way GW does (probably due GW being so trigger happy with C&Ds, even with zero ground to stand on). heck females in general are not that common, since they don't tend to shoot it other very often and most dudes want to self-insert or keep it realistic. infinity's probably the closest when it comes to (sexy) female models.

honestly, the way to go is balls deep into mini agnostic rules, this way you can enjoy warhammer for the art and lore, but don't have to suffer through GW's crappy rules and release cycles who basically serve to sell you more plastic. and if there's someone else doing great shit you can't even find in 40k? put them in too! personally can't wait till stargrave comes out.

always found hilarious that a game where everyone accepts "your dudes" it's outright sacrilege playing by "your rules".

Elves are the first port of call for players/gm's pathetic fetishes being indulged in public so yes.

you can probably blame tolkien for that, either directly or indirectly. can't remember how he described them, but the more androgynous look for elves with them being "graceful" and other stuff, combined with their indirect fey heritage, makes them prime target for that.

 

[Corn Flakes]

always found hilarious that a game where everyone accepts "your dudes" it's outright sacrilege playing by "your rules".

Really? Most groups hung out with (plastic crack was too expensive for my tastes so I played with borrowed armies) were fine with having a few house rules and using non-GW proxies (one of the guys had Imperial Guard that were 100% Starship Trooper soldiers, complete with the soup bowl helmet). What people did enforce was actually playing the same game. New edition comes out? Before the start of the game all parties agree on which edition to use, whether the old one or the new one, and whether units released in temporary pre-codex updates are allowed alongside actual codex units.

What sorts of "your rules" are you talking about there?

 

[iceteayo]

You know what?

I'm going to, very gently, defend some of the people who whine about not having an <X> chapter, or <X> minority representation in 40k, or whatever.

Not because I think they actually have a point. On that score, fuck 'em. But, no, the whole reason it's an issue is a lot of the rest of the fanbase is so fucking humorlessly serious about the setting. 40k was never meant to be a setting that was taken that seriously. The setting is ridiculous, intentionally so. The lore and canon has always been, at best, spotty, and while Games Workshop have tried to prune away much of the silly over the years, this is the setting that started out having space dwarves.

But now you have a legion of fanboys who will flip their Emperor-blessed shit if someone gets the lore wrong or does something against canon.

One of the best things to come out of the My Little Pony community was all the Warhammer 40k crossovers in fanfics, and the fact that there were people fielding Rainbow Dash or Fluttershy themed armies. Not because I really wanted to see that, but just because, fuck, someone needs to remind people to not take it so fucking *seriously* all the time.

Being a blatant 40kfag I find it odd how Warhammer 40k has not gained stigma among online spaces like many other communities do. The sheer amount of times it gets spammed nowadays is crazy to me being a fan for nearly 2 decades. I keep getting recommended ""WARHAMMER 40K VS SCIFI SETTING" on youtube and seemingly 40k always wins or the fact Warhammer fans love to come in spamming memes.

Getting older I learned to not be so anal over lore like many other people in the fanbase are becasue 1. GW/BL themselves barely give a rats ass about their own lore and 2. It just ruins your enjoyment of the hobby as a whole. I left Warhammer for 5 years since I got pissy over Cadia blowing up and Age of Sigmar happening I learned to mellow out and paint the dumb plastic.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Cadia blowing up I can accept as a plot development.

I'll never forgive them for Age of Sigmar and ending one of my favorite fantasy settings of all time.

 

[ZMOT]

What sorts of "your rules" are you talking about there?

less houserules and more other rule systems in general. it's similar to people constantly complaining about D&D, but when you suggest something else it's "noooooooo, I wanna play warhammaaaaa". if you tell them to STFU then and deal with the rules being shit or ambiguous, their army being fucked right now, not keeping up with updates ("that's not how it's written here in my codex" ) they sulk and make it even more annoying for everybody.

of course that highly depends on the people you play with, but unless you live in a big urban area the pool of people available for warhammer alone is much smaller. getting them to play literally anything else (even if they can re-use their plastic and other rules are a much better fit for the beer & bretzels gameplay they want warhammer to be) is almost impossible.
or look at it this way, no one plays warhammer for the rules. yet no one wants to play anything else either. there is this kind of weird notion that if you play with GW plastic you HAVE to use GW rules, which is just mindboggling for me (and I say that as a borderline autist who hates mixing contents of boardgames).

 

[Love Machine]

Cadia blowing up I can accept as a plot development.

I'll never forgive them for Age of Sigmar and ending one of my favorite fantasy settings of all time.

You should have bought more fantasy models then

 

[Flaming Insignias]

You should have bought more fantasy models then

I still think that GW would’ve destroyed fantasy anyway just to ensure they’d be able to rake in money from impossible to proxy units. The big thing that made fantasy struggle so much was that a lot of the big armies had units that were easily capable of being substituted for with medieval and Renaissance miniatures from regular wargames.

 

[SITHRAK!]

They're probably going to be White Scars successors but I want to try making a Chapter with a 15th century Korean aesthetic, including the Geobukseon and Hwacha.

These discussions are maybe getting a little circular, the majority here agree progressives ruin everything and 40k isn't safe either. If anything it attracts them more, especially the harder the established community resists them. It's too bad this thread might be a little starved for content as long as lockdowns are in place. Maybe the built-up rage will be explosive once people are playing in physical groups again, there's usually good stories from conventions in particular.

Even before ‘Warhammer is for everyone’ there were SocJus autists circling the IP like hungry sharks. Gav Thorpe, Matt Ward and Adam Dembski-Bowden (a pox upon his loins) are eying it off. It‘s bad enough, letting fucktards like ADB write canon fluff.

What’s worse is watching Gav Thorpe begin his long slow decline from fucking incompetent spastic with too much power (they took a bath on Inquisitor because he was too stupid to work out points values) into gibbering imbecile with too much power and a SocJus agenda.

Lately we’ve seen blatant pandering like ‘Attack of the Necron’ where a brave little black girl leads her group of friends against some of the galaxy’s worst horrors, or ‘Roll Models’, where a smart, sassy black female Stormcast is there to constantly help her retarded white male counterparts.

Female Marines are a line in the sand that I don’t think GW will ever be willing to cross. I think they’ll unSquat the Squats before that happens. But if someone really wants to put a metaphorical bullet in GW’s head and make them canon, prepare for a fucking avalanche of salt.

 

[Love Machine]

I still think that GW would’ve destroyed fantasy anyway just to ensure they’d be able to rake in money from impossible to proxy units. The big thing that made fantasy struggle so much was that a lot of the big armies had units that were easily capable of being substituted for with medieval and Renaissance miniatures from regular wargames.

Its been talked about for years that the whole reason fantasy was scuttled was because they werent making money on it anymore. Which tbh, is completely fair, they just wrote it very, very badly, while the replacement game barely had rules on launch. I dont think the same spergs that were burning their armies would have accepted a shift to a more AoS styled game system even without the end times.

I think its fairly obvious that GW also took the chance while doing this to close the loophole ChapterHouse had been using. Thats why there are so much gibberish naming for units and factions in AoS.

 

[iceteayo]

I still think that GW would’ve destroyed fantasy anyway just to ensure they’d be able to rake in money from impossible to proxy units. The big thing that made fantasy struggle so much was that a lot of the big armies had units that were easily capable of being substituted for with medieval and Renaissance miniatures from regular wargames.

It was "Reported" paint and a single Tactical Space Marine kit was outselling Fantasy. Combined with Kirbys rather incompetent leadership they thought a full redo was in order. You can rave about how much the setting was great but MODELS will always come first with GW. The problem with Fantasy was shit wasnt getting updated and there were armies with books that were 5 years old on top of the fact the people wanted to play both massive ranks of infantry and use their super special heroes points for regular games bloated to at least 2500 Points and in terms of Fantasy that was at least 100+ models. The way Age of Sigmar started was not exactly stellar (some even refer to 2nd as AoS's true 1st edition).


Also keep in mind 40k itself was in a rather bad position too in 7th edition but thats a whole other can of worms and again this stems from Kirby.