Sargon's wife's son
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2019
Pretty much you can literally get away with stealing from orphans as long as you put a **** flag on it
Tabletop Community Watch
- Thread starter IAmNotAlpharius
- Start date
-
Want to keep track of this thread?
Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
Create account
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
I've just picked a 32mm mini at random and according to Lychee that costs 9¢ worth of resin to print (including the supports). I use Elegoo ABS-Like for all of my stuff. Its not the best out there, but if anyone struggles to get clean, well-defined prints out of it that are on a par with ABS plastic models then its definitely a skill issue (even on a 4K printer). If I could, I would use Epax Hard resin (probably the best ABS-Like I've ever used), but getting that in the quantities I need ahead of time isn't practical.
The problem with large scale 3D printing isn't the hardware or the materials, but the people involved. Without wanting to sound too much of a pseud, 3D printing is a skill, and its one with quite a high ceiling. The wankers you see in YouTube comments that present it as a "push button, get model" solution for all of GW's problems are retarded. I've been resin printing since the technology first appeared on the scene and I am still learning things. The advances in hardware have made the job easier, but there are still a lot of variables at play in preparing a file for print, the printing itself and the cleaning/finishing process. When you look at the output of these huge print farms, its evident that they aren't hiring people with the skills required for the finishing process, and they certainly don't have the QA standards that are acceptable for miniature modelling/painting. I wouldn't trust these cunts to pick fruit, let alone print and prep a miniature I was spending my hard-earned money on.
I buy a lot of minis just to see the kind of competition I'm up against. Random Etsy shops, big print farms, physical models on Kickstarters etc. There is a LOT of shit out there. The 3D printing game is filled with opportunists out for a quick buck with no heart in the game. It might not have the artistry of physical sculpting but it is definitely a craft.
Sunflower Samurai
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I think we probably wouldnt have seen the "le warhammer killer???!!?!?@?!?" Type of clickbait without the recent influx of slop content and hype for GW products (lore channels, Space Marine 2), tabletop channels just want the best way to siphon shekels and doing shit like that is the best way.
Id midly disagree with woke not being a contributing factor in it possibly failing, they're handling an inherently transgressive product while having an internal "inner circle" fanbase thats mostly still circlejerking about all the chud scalps they took. Even normies will notice and lefty enough retards will want to purity circle harder if it comes to high enough amounts of smuggery.
On other things, ive been thorughly amused by all the low IQ retards on the sub reddit who want every single bit of lore spoonfed, and seeing their screetchig when they find out its spread behind various disconnected social media posts or fucking discord that are not collated at all.
There's also issues from the modeling side of things. People creating models and not pre-supporting them properly(not even just not supporting them, but doing it badly so you might assume it's correct and then find out it wasn't), not making larger models into a reasonable number of parts, not scaling things properly for some reason, not including drainage holes or preventing massive flat surfaces from being flat against the bottom of the vat, and so on. And that's things that model makers/sellers screw up that the normal end user just has to deal with.
And then on top of that now you've got kickstarters for STLs that were made using fucking AI of all things generating models that even at a glance just aren't printable.
The "warhammer killer?!" shit is also going to be just because of the stupid algorithm, searches, etc. Lots of hobby channels have complained over the years about not being able to just do a painting video without somehow shoving warhammer into the title of their views tank.
The lore thing, that's funny though. As stupid as I think it is for them to be posting shit on FB, bluesky, and I guess in the damned discord, it's still easier to find shit than digging through white dwarf articles, army rule books, random novels, etc. and they don't realize how easy the various wikis have made it for them to find shit or just have some guy reading a wiki page for them eliminates any effort.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
for a pure print service it would be only material, initial cost and personnel (which should be easily be able to scheduled since there's not much else to do while printing besides packaging minis for shipping). design wouldn't be part of the cost and poor pre-supports don't matter.
but since those are professional machines the materials come most likely come with a hefty pricetag. worse it's all proprietary so there most likely will never be even a prosumer 3d inkjet.
siocast might be more efficient in the long run, but you're still tying a huge part of your business to a single company without any alternatives.
that's just shitty QA, same way early finecast was.
a properly tuned printer would require a macrolens to spot the difference.
that's consumer level tho, hp is probably asking quite a bit more for their inkjet goo than that (the stratasys is almost 100k just for the printer, the only price I could find for the resin was $476 for 1.1kg - one color).
as for the people doing it, I remember MMF looking for people working the printers, I think only-games is in wales. not much of a high requirement, but then how much "skill" does anyone need ripping minis of a plate and make sure they're properly cured (iirc with some inkjet tech it's even easier since the model is finished, you just need to wash of the support material, if any).
but yeah, a DLP printer does require a bit more attention.
he also did a video of only-games, but it's member's only.
Last edited:
Design would absolutely still be part of the cost. When I say "consumer" I'm not referring to the b2b transactions, I mean the end user having a product in their hands that presumably they'd eventually paint and play games with. We're not talking about Steve from the local game store designing his own minis and sending the files off to a print farm(I'm sure that does happen on occasion). I'm referring to the TC design team sending models to a print farm, who them ships the product to the consumer who would usually considered to be a customer of TC.
Absolutely, but it's still a consumer ending up with a shit product and just because the print farm was in-house rather than outsourced didn't do Privateer Press any good in the long run.
Designers that don't give a shit and print farms that don't give a shit, generally result in a consumer getting a garbage product. And even if the consumer is doing the printing on their own, it's still not a plug and play operation to just take the printer out of the box, throw some models at it, and hit the go button and not everyone is interested in taking up that hobby(if you design your own models you can avoid a lot of issues as well, but then that's another entirely separate hobby again).
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
I said "presumably". Also TC isn't the only company that uses print farms. Doesn't matter if the customer base wound up being a bunch of idiots who will never touch the models beyond maybe taking it out of the box once, and putting it away. The business model and intended usage of the product is still the same.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
I've yet to see any evidence that their mono prints are done using anything special. Especially if the print quality is anything to go by. Post-printing aside, there was heavy artifacting on larger curved surfaces (ie little to no anti-aliasing used, bad grey balancing, no HD anti-aliasing or poor orientation of the print) and striation due to temperature fluctuations and/or bad z-axis (lack of lube, loose/bent z rod; pick your poison). As far as post-print fuck ups go; the supports were either too deep into the model resulting in excessive pockmarks, surface supports that left nubs that weren't removed properly (how hard is it to use a scalpel?), cured surface debris and pooled resin (on areas that even a wash & cure would take care of).
As far as the resin they use, it had the same tensile strength, colour and texture as Ameralabs TGM-7. Having had half a litre of that shit left (I was sent some as a promo when Epax lost their distributor over here), I tested the same model and the weight was almost identical (within 5 milligrams taking into account differences between drying times is close enough for me). If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc, I'm not buying that it's custom made
Given what others and I have experienced so far, that skill is lacking over there at OnlyGames. You could argue that its just lax QA (big ups Forge World), but there is too much consistency in the fuck ups to indicate that its just the odd model that is slipping through the net or that it's Mohammed's first day on the job (you'd think they'd be good with knives, but hey).
You mean poor keying, huge voids, shitloads of topology errors and using OBJ (in the year of our Lord) isn't normal? All jokes aside, yeah, its bad. If this was the first couple of years people could be forgiven, but you've only got to see the state of the STLs that were released for the TC Kickstarter. They're not the worst offender by a long stretch (thats reserved for That Evil One) but for a high profile Kickstarter like that it was obvious that little to no co-ordination was going on behind the scenes when it came to the models.
Ideally people should learn to support their own stuff. There are too many variables going on for there to be a "one size fits all" solution. Lift speeds, resin viscocity, what slicer you're using etc all play a big part in the effectiveness of your supports and obviously you have the model to take into account too. Is it a joyless task to do every time? Fuck yes it is. Are you going to benefit from it in the long run by doing it yourself? Definitely.
Purple fur Pomeranian
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2023
This is more Mantic related, but here's an article they posted about the trade tariffs. https://www.manticgames.com/news/u-s-tariffs-an-update-from-ronnie/
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
and I'm talking about steve getting his bought STLs printed professionally (or a creator paying someone to create physical minis), I'm not talking specifically about TC.
has nothing do with the designers either, if you get a shit product - whatever it is - that's not worth the price you paid for it's not the fault of the consumer.
a 3d printer also doesn't require everyone to be proficient with it, it's enough to have someone in your social circle who does. same way you don't need to know anything about computers, cars or knitting if you "know someone". any mini you get that way is usually a mini not bought from GW or someone else.
don't get me wrong, not defending only-games, but stuff like that isn't uncommon. mohammed probably doesn't get paid enough to give a shit. maybe MMF tries to get a bigger margin this way, or there might not be that high a margin for workes to give a shit to begin with.
as for shitty supports, most creators (at least the bigger ones) tend to have good defaults. it's one of the first things people give them shit for, so over time they started to release STLs they've already printed themselves as "proof". ofc that doesn't mean they gonna work on every printer with every setting out there, but it's much less of an issue compared to a few years ago (back when it ramped up during covid some STLs were outright atrocious to the point some weren't designed to be printed at all).
with a professional service the requirements would be higher and in the interest of the creator to hand over working STLs, otherwise no printing would happen at all.
O-G might fuck up that step as well, might be interesting to compare some of their prints to the STLs. too lazy to dig through my folders.
EDIT:
>That Evil One
great models, but wasn't he one of the dudes who didn't even bother with STLs and just dropped OBJs? although that says more about makers cult than him if it was part of their release.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
Shall we? Lets.
This is apparently an acceptable poly count on a vehicle weapon. Oh I'm nitpicking? Let us proceed...
PS1 era poly count on vehicles hulls.
More PS1 era poly counts. Now with added "rivets".
Just fuck my surface geometry up fam. A good workout for 3D Builder.
I could find many, many more. The designs are great. The execution? Not so much.
Sunflower Samurai
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Ive honestly stuck to One Page Rules and Stationforge and so far they've been easy to print and pirate
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2020
I have to admit I've only dabbled in 3D modeling as a hobby but... what in God's name is that topology? Were they sculpting vehicles on Zbrush using character sculpting tools? What fuck is going on there?
Is it just me, or does the hand riveted to the belt look like they got it as an asset from elsewhere because it looks so completely out of place due to the detail compared to the rest of the model? I've got next to no experience messing with 3d models other than fucking around in tinkercad(works for what I've needed it to do, make boxes for shit) but that just looks strange.
Just fuck my surface geometry up fam. A good workout for 3D Builder.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2021
I half agree. I think getting pozed contributed and made shit worse for the company since nowadays that basically puts the eye of sauron on you. I do agree incompetence has fucked over TC and their management of the game is so shit. I like playing TC because i dig the system and i like models but it is such a fucking hassle to keep up with the game. They barely, imo, have a presence in the industry and at times the game feels more like an art project rather than an actual game.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
Because that's exactly how they want it to be.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
Its what MorkBorg would be if they didn't have OG D&D to use as a base.
Sunflower Samurai
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Its funny because i think MorkBorg already has Forbidden Psalm as a base for a skirmish wargame that is similar to TC, Forbidden Psalm also already has a very TC like subgame (e.g a fucky eldritch Weird War 1 setting) called The Last War which currently has an actual plastic starter set and partnership with Wargames Atlantic, whose WW1/2 and Sci Fi lines were popular conversion kits for TC itself
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2014
Trench Crusade is more fucked due to their models not translating well from the art concepts and massively incompetent marketing and release methods IMO. Their art is neat, but it just doesn't really draw me in since I've seen that sort of style before, and those models look like shit when it's all in browns and rust.
As for the marketing, it takes a massive fucking imbecile to not demonstrate your skirmish game at places like Adepticon. Especially since the minis enthusiasts I know actually are interested in how it handles crunch compared to peers due to how it levies advantages. Also holy shit they need to distance from those 28 morons; that doesn't help.
As for the marketing, it takes a massive fucking imbecile to not demonstrate your skirmish game at places like Adepticon. Especially since the minis enthusiasts I know actually are interested in how it handles crunch compared to peers due to how it levies advantages. Also holy shit they need to distance from those 28 morons; that doesn't help.