Taliban offensive of 2021 and collapse of Afghan government.

Pakistan is also the country that could realistically succumb to some sort of Islamic revolution so yes the Taliban will back their colleagues across the Durand line.
Pakistan is more used to military coups than Islamic revolutons of the Iranian style. There are a lot of sects among the sunnis in Pakistan and a large minority shia population.

It isn't like Iran where its like over 90 percent shia.
 
little offtopic but there has been issues in Spain about the Ministry of foreign affairs unable to secure a diplomatic line with the talibans to evacuate the personal they have there this has started a panic there but that was until a shitposter from spain with a Apu pustaja avatar asked Mansoo Afghan a spokeperson of the talibans to spare the Spanish citizens, and he answered

View attachment 2458213

Yes a guy with a Pepe the frog avatar managed to do in a night what the entire spain government with all their channels could not managed in days
But my Red Phone & Private communication.
Based Spain kids asking for peace.
 
Welp, looks like I was right. *sigh*

I have a gut feeling that this won't make a difference for midterms. People have short attention spans and there are plenty of people who vote based on the letter next to a name.
I recall someone who said their district would vote in a cup of water if it had a (D) next to its name. Might've been Pelosi.

The only way I see it actually making a difference is if CNN and the like keep bringing it up constantly and antagonizing the adminstration like they did with Trump. Otherwise, it'll be forgotten by a vast majority of the population just like everything else and they'll revert to voting for whoever gives them more welfare.
 
And the second they try, Taliban anti-aircraft missiles will destroy them.

But you are right, this is a management level fuckup. More specifically, it's a leadership level fuckup. I'm not just talking Biden, I'm saying that the people involved have a demonstrated lack of leadership capabilities.
  • Everyone knew that going into Afghanistan was a stupid fucking move, but no one wanted to be the guy who told the Military Industrial guys no.
  • Everyone knew that Nation Building doesn't work, but no one wanted to be the guy who told the NeoCon retards that they were wrong.
  • Everyone knew that it was time to leave 10 years ago, but no one wanted to be the one who wanted to end the reindeer games over there.
  • Everyone knew that the Afghanistan Army wasn't working out, but no one wanted to risk being called racist or a quitter.
  • Everyone knew that refusing to hold to the agreed upon leaving timeframe was a bad idea, but no one wanted to tell the TDS suffering idiots in the new admin that they had to hold to it despite it being "Trumpian."
  • Everyone knew that the situation on the ground was deteriorating, fast, but no one wanted to be the guy who sounded the alarm.
  • Everyone knew that the billions of dollars in left behind equipment should have been destroyed, but no one wanted to have that on their budget sheet.
  • Everyone knew that the military should have gotten people out first, but no one wanted to tell the chickenshit military leaders who were bailing to wait.
  • Everyone knew that the Taliban was going to take over the second we left, but no one wanted to be the one that "caused" that by leaving.
Leadership means making a choice, seeing it through, and accepting the responsibility for that choice. In every instance of the last 20 years of this shitshow, the people involved have done ANYTHING other than making a choice, seeing it through, and taking responsibility for it.

For another good example of this, look at Covid. We went into lockdown -- universal permanent medical quarantine -- not because the science said so, but because it was the only safe option for the leaders. Any other option would see hundreds of deaths be "their fault." Then we sat in lockdown for a year because no one wanted to risk undoing it and suddenly having those deaths be their fault, with the desperate "the vaccine" being a literal magic pill to let them escape responsibility for their decisions. And even now we're completely rudderless, being led around by the loudest most insane Karens because no one else wants to risk being behind the wheel or shouting the Karens down.

Our entire country has a generation of "leaders" who can't lead, that cannot take even the most basic responsibility for their decisions and actions.

God fucking save us if we ever actually need to react to something like China or a real pandemic.
I'd say that's basically a consequence of how Western governance functions. The exercise of power is concealed and obscured, so that means responsibility is also constantly passed around, meaning that no one ever takes responsibility.

You have various "civil society" institutions, the executive, the "deep state"(that is the security apparatus and its various factions), certain interest groups, functionaries, court eunuchs, and hangers-on-NGOs, the press, "expert" consultants, etc... all jockeying for a say, all trying to be the ones setting policy or influencing whoever is setting policy.

What this means is everyone can always evade blame, its always someone else's turn to hold the ball, and they will in turn throw it to the other guy, and then he'll toss it back and so on.

In this case, "its trump's fault", or "its Biden's fault", "the intelligence community screwed up", "the whole neocon project is to blame", in the end no one has to face consequences because they can pass the buck to someone else.
 
little offtopic but there has been issues in Spain about the Ministry of foreign affairs unable to secure a diplomatic line with the talibans to evacuate the personal they have there this has started a panic there but that was until a shitposter from spain with a Apu pustaja avatar asked Mansoo Afghan a spokeperson of the talibans to spare the Spanish citizens, and he answered

View attachment 2458213

Yes a guy with a Pepe the frog avatar managed to do in a night what the entire spain government with all their channels could not managed in days
after Ukraine or one of those other former satellites posted on official state communications the gif from the Simpsons of the Russians hitting the button and flipping back into Soviet Union mode as a response to when Russia shipped into that one spot I was resigned to the idea that dank memes were now a legitimate tool of statecraft
even after that time with Hillary it made sense that frogposting would be important in the anarchist's bullet way, but this is still more than a little rattling to see a pepe avatar contributing in a constructive way towards international diplomatic efforts
 
I can’t wait for the shitlib narratives in five to ten years that “White cowardice and bigotry lost Afghanistan”

“Why a more non white America would have stayed to fight so Afghan girls could get Onlyfans and publish pornhub videos”.

“White voters and leaders lacked the empathy to fight for social justice in Afghanistan”.

I bet you my life’s savings-this will be the narrative in less than a decade.
I find it insane that the very religious people of Afghanistan preferred the Taliban over the globohomo

And liberals are not cheerful of this lol. The so called brown people made their choice. They want the religion of peace to guide them rather than rainbow flags, feminists and nigger worship.
 
What the fuck? 100k more people? Where the hell is that number coming from?
Estimated that there is 40k or so American citizens in country at the moment. We're taking basically every Afghan that shows up at the airport no questions asked, the notion that they're "vetting" these people is totally farcical, they're just climbing over the walls of the airport. This sideshow will continue until it suddenly lurches to a halt because the Taliban tires of it or the US. Current estimates in and around the airport are all over the place but somewhere near 30-50k, this is becoming a problem as the military is trying to ferry people out it has the double issue of just supply food and water to people just sitting out in the open. A day or two ago the word was that toliets and other sanitation had broken in the airport and I doubt much in the way of accomodations have been brought in.
 
Estimated that there is 40k or so American citizens in country at the moment. We're taking basically every Afghan that shows up at the airport no questions asked, the notion that they're "vetting" these people is totally farcical, they're just climbing over the walls of the airport. This sideshow will continue until it suddenly lurches to a halt because the Taliban tires of it or the US. Current estimates in and around the airport are all over the place but somewhere near 30-50k, this is becoming a problem as the military is trying to ferry people out it has the double issue of just supply food and water to people just sitting out in the open. A day or two ago the word was that toliets and other sanitation had broken in the airport and I doubt much in the way of accomodations have been brought in.
You know what? I want the Taliban to say "Time's up" and start putting holes in the runway. Anything to put an end to an ongoing farce.
 
Estimated that there is 40k or so American citizens in country at the moment. We're taking basically every Afghan that shows up at the airport no questions asked, the notion that they're "vetting" these people is totally farcical, they're just climbing over the walls of the airport. This sideshow will continue until it suddenly lurches to a halt because the Taliban tires of it or the US. Current estimates in and around the airport are all over the place but somewhere near 30-50k, this is becoming a problem as the military is trying to ferry people out it has the double issue of just supply food and water to people just sitting out in the open. A day or two ago the word was that toliets and other sanitation had broken in the airport and I doubt much in the way of accomodations have been brought in.
Tens of thousands more parasites. Great. If the Taliban are smart they'll let Biden ruin us to his heart's content and slip a few agents of their own in the mix.
 
If I may ask you and @Techpriest,what makes you believe the Shia or Hazara militias will be successful against these lot, who just gave America its worst humiliation post Vietnam and even worse than Vietnam.
Do I think that Liwa Fatemiyoun, who defeated ISIS alongside the SAA, IRGC and Hezbollah, despite frequent aerial terrorist attacks from the American air force in support of ISIS, can hold the Taliban at bay if they actually do play up? Sure.
 
link / archive (not sure if this worked)

Trump’s Pledge to Exit Afghanistan Was a Ruse, His Final SecDef Says

Chris Miller now says talk of a full withdrawal was a “play” to convince a Taliban-led government to keep U.S. counterterrorism forces.



Patrick Tucker
BY PATRICK TUCKER

TECHNOLOGY EDITOR
AUGUST 18, 2021 07:41 PM ET

President Donald Trump’s top national security officials never intended to pull all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan, according to new statements by Chris Miller, Trump’s last acting defense secretary.
Miller said the president’s public promise to finish withdrawing U.S. forces by May 1, as negotiated with the Taliban, was actually a “play” that masked the Trump administration’s true intentions: to convince Afghan President Ashraf Ghani to quit or accept a bitter power-sharing agreement with the Taliban, and to keep some U.S. troops in Afghanistan for counterrorism missions.
In a conversation this week with Defense One, Miller revealed that while serving as the top counterterrorism official on the National Security Council in 2019, he commissioned a wargame that determined that the United States could continue to conduct counterterrorism in Afghanistan with just 800 American military personnel on the ground. And by the end of 2020, when he was acting defense secretary, Miller asserted, many Trump administration officials expected that the United States would be able to broker a new shared government in Afghanistan composed primarily of Taliban officials. The new government would then permit U.S. forces to remain in country to support the Afghan military and fight terrorist elements.
That plan never happened, in part because Trump lost his reelection bid in November. And at least one other former senior Trump administration official questioned Miller’s retelling. But in revealing it, Miller challenged recent assertions that Trump is to blame for setting up this week’s chaotic scenes unfolding across Kabul. Miller alleged that despite Trump’s frequent public pledges to end the Afghanistan war and bring home all U.S. troops, many senior national security officials in his administration believed a total withdrawal was not inevitable.
The spectre of Trump’s public comments has lingered into the new administration. On Monday, President Joe Biden asserted that Trump’s February 2020 deal with the Taliban and subsequent troop withdrawals, along with the American public’s growing desire to end the war, left the new president just two choices: send thousands of U.S. troops back into Afghanistan for a fruitless mission or completely and quickly withdraw.

In December, Miller touched down in Afghanistan to formally discuss with Afghan leaders the end of the U.S. troop presence. The response of then-President Ashraf Ghani surprised Miller. “I expected hostility,” he recalled in conversation with Defense One on Saturday. “Instead, he was gracious and respectful. He talked about the sacrifices of the Americans. He thanked the Gold Star families. He said, ‘You have done so much’.”

But the tone of the discussions changed when Miller met with Ghani’s vice president, Amrullah Saleh, who had also served in key intelligence roles over the years.

“He came in and just talked about the threat,” said Miller. “Essentially, the message was: ‘This is going to be bad. And if this happens, al-Qaeda is going to be back’.”

The U.S. delegation and their Afghan counterparts didn’t talk strategy or go into any details about what lay ahead during the meetings, Miller said. The participants already seemed to know the bleak facts. “It would not have been appropriate to say ‘Is your Army going to collapse?’ But of course we were all thinking that.”

While Miller acknowledged on Saturday that it would have been impossible for the United States to support the Afghanistan government forever, he said the Taliban’s rapid advance across the country and the resulting deadly chaos playing out in Kabul could have been avoided had the Biden administration heeded military and national security experts.

Miller is a true believer in special operations forces capabilities. He landed in Afghanistan in December 2001 at the beginning of the hunt for Osama bin Laden. Later, he served as a Green Beret commander and as director of the National Counterterrorism Centers. Appointed acting defense secretary just days after Trump lost his re-election bid, Miller soon traveled to the Green Berets’ home of Fort Bragg, North Carolina, for a ceremony to elevate the authority of the special operations assistant secretary.

Weeks later, Miller flew to Afghanistan, where he met Ghani and visited with American troops at Afghan Army’s Special Operations Command at Camp Morehead, in Wardak Province.

"I always felt it was a huge strategic error by expanding the war. I thought the war was for special operations, small footprint,” he said at the time.

By then, Miller knew that some in the U.S. intelligence community believed the war could become smaller once again, and sustainable.

“We did plenty of wargames on this and we knew what the minimal force structure was,” he said this week. “The number was 800. If this all goes bad, what is the minimal force structure needed to maintain [counterterrorism] strike and reconnaissance capability? We can do it for 800, 850.”

Defense One was able to confirm Miller’s account of the 800-personnel study independently with another former NSC staff member.

Miller said he understood Trump’s May 1 withdrawal deal to be a negotiating tactic.

“The whole policy strategy going forward was ‘Ghani is going to have to deal with the Taliban.’ And it wasn’t going to be a 50-50 split between the Afghan government and Taliban. We knew that. It was going to be 75-25 [majority Taliban], and then you flip this thing into an interim government,” he said.

Miller said this was his perception following a meeting of the National Security Council Deputies Committee on the Taliban negotiations, led by Amb. Zalmay Khalilzad, the lead U.S. negotiator, around February 2020. Top Trump administration officials announced the first parameters of their deal with the Taliban at the Munich Security Conference that month, in Germany, attended by Khalilzad, Ghani, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Miller’s predecessor as defense secretary, Mike Esper.

Pompeo offered his own recollections in a Monday appearance on Fox Business.

“We would have demanded that the Taliban actually deliver on the conditions that we laid out in the agreement—including the agreement to engage in meaningful power-sharing agreement—something that we struggled to get them to do but made clear it was going to be a requirement before we completed our requirement to fully withdraw," Pompeo said.

But Miller said there was never meant to be a full withdrawal; the “play” was to persuade the Ghani administration to accept an interim, coalition government or quit as the Taliban demanded. A new government then would be ratified by loya jirga, a traditional Pashtun legal assembly of tribal leaders, which likely would have transferred key ministerial posts and other powers to the Taliban.

“It wasn’t an unconditional surrender: ‘We’re leaving, heading for the door’,” Miller said. “We weren’t just going to head for the door. We were going to jam Ghani hard and make him cut a deal with the Taliban. It would have been ugly. It wouldn’t have been great. But there was no plan to just leave."

The hope was that the process would have allowed the United States, either through Ghani or his replacement, to negotiate a new status-of-forces agreement to extend the U.S. troop presence in Afghanistan under the guise of continued counterterrorism training.

"There was going to be a new government. The Taliban wouldn’t exist as an independent entity. That deal is no longer valid. The whole idea was they would agree," Miller said. "We would have called it ‘security assistance,’ so that they could save face, but we were going to maintain a [counterterrorism] strike and reconnaissance capability."

“We were in a stalemate,” he said. “If the Taliban started massing and coming out of their insurgency state...we would have put [American] advisors with Afghan forces.”

If the Taliban attacked Afghan and U.S. forces, the United States would better be able to respond by calling in targeted air strikes, he said.

In the meantime, Miller argued, the interim government process would have bought the United States time to conduct an orderly evacuation in stark contrast to what is playing out in Kabul this week.

Miller felt the process of establishing that new government also would have kept the Taliban in negotiations rather than speeding to take over Kabul.



ln March, Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley reportedly told Biden that leaving fewer than 2,500 troops could allow quick Taliban gains and re-establish a haven for extremist groups like al-Qaeda or ISIS to plan attacks against Western targets. Milley’s office this week reportedly has warned some lawmakers already that it is revising the threat level it sees from terrorists in the Middle East.

On Wednesday, Milley said the time for reviewing past decisions on U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan will come later, but asserted that the Pentagon planned for several possible scenarios for the Taliban advance. “One of those contingencies is what we are executing right now,” he said in a press conference.

The chairman’s office did not respond to requests to comment for this story.

Experts long have argued over just how few U.S. troops were needed in Afghanistan to deter and respond to terrorism threats and to continue training and supporting Afghan forces.

Mike Nagata, a retired Army three-star who directed strategic operational planning at the National Counterterrorism Center, said that he wasn't surprised to hear the 800-troop number but that it is inadequate.

“Based on my counterterrorism experience, several thousand U.S. personnel are necessary inside Afghanistan to conduct the intelligence and operational activities needed for reasonable confidence that we could thwart the creation of a new terrorist 'safe-haven' capable of transnational terrorist attacks. However, this is unrelated to what would be needed to sustain the ability of the Afghan government to secure their own population and territory from the Taliban,” said Nagata, who also commanded U.S. Special Operations Command Central.

Even with several thousand troops, Nagata said, the counterterrorism effort would still carry significant risk because of “the enormous size of Afghanistan, the ruggedness of its terrain, and the complexity of its population."

A second former senior Trump administration official acknowledged that there were efforts, led mostly by Khalilzad, to oust Ghani in order to appease the Taliban.

“That was what [Khalilzad] was pushing and that’s what the Taliban wanted. They wanted to get rid of the legitimate government,” said the official.

The official acknowledged that the United States had few options for keeping the Taliban out of Kabul. “The decision space was either: keep a small U.S. counterterrorism presence along with 7,000 to 8,000 NATO troops and kind of hold down the fort and protect our counterterrorism interests, or go to zero and cede the country to the Taliban.”

However, the official disagreed strongly that Miller’s idea was workable. “The Taliban were never going to agree to let any U.S. forces stay in the country and if any U.S. official thought that was possible, I think they were a victim of wishful thinking.”

But, said the former senior Trump administration official, the way in which the Afghan government collapsed could still have been avoided with a more gradual withdrawal.

“There’s probably a middle option to withdraw U.S. forces gradually and keep [special operations] contractors, or at least some of the contractors, in the country. I think what really undermined the Afghans was pulling all 16,000 contractors as well as all U.S. forces so abruptly. It changed the ground under their feet drastically and overnight. And there’s a psychological element if you realize that your partner of the last 20 years has just abandoned you.”
 
If I may ask you and @Techpriest , what makes you believe the Shia or Hazara militias will be successful against these lot, who just gave America its worst humiliation post Vietnam and even worse than Vietnam.
Because they would be fighting the Taliban on the Taliban's terms. Because the Taliban will soon be fighting each other, and dealing with their own insurgency when they start trying to tighten the screws in the North East. And that's before Every single neighboring country would sign up to fund and support the rebels.

The Taliban got their shit pushed heavy in by the US who were fighting with both arms and a leg tied behind thier back. The only American failure in Afghanistan was trying to build a (corrupt, incompetent) democracy in a place without the infrastructure or social capital for it, instead of just accepting reality and punishing the Taliban, killing bin Laden & then punishing Pakistan, and leaving behind a Warlord council.

You know what? I want the Taliban to say "Time's up" and start putting holes in the runway. Anything to put an end to an ongoing farce.
They won't. Not for a while. They are getting exactly what they want at the moment.


Tens of thousands more parasites. Great. If the Taliban are smart they'll let Biden ruin us to his heart's content and slip a few agents of their own in the mix.
They are. Or trying. This is part of why they haven't cratered the run way.
The Taliban will be funded by lots of remitances of US tax-payer funded refugee checks.
 
This article is based around one guy's interpretation of events, one that came into his position right as the details had been hammered out and the cease fire agreement had been negotiated until May. I don't deny that there was probably a hope that they could get the Republic to power share with the Taliban because of the pullout but this was not possible, the Taliban already had something near 60-70% of the country under their control and all of the major highways were contested or fully controlled by Taliban forces. The war had effectively been lost somewhere between 2015-2017 based off maps showing control of this or that region. Miller states that it goal was to keep a force in the country after the government ended up being dominated by the Taliban 70-30%, this is Chernobyl TV series level of delusional and shows that these people are abject morons divorced from reality. I also question his interpretation because Trump had also ordered the removal of troops from Somalia back during the summer as well and had been talking about draw downs and departures his entire administration, Afghanistan was perpetually delayed because of the attempt for that power sharing agreement before pivoting to the ceasefire during pullout.

You know what? I want the Taliban to say "Time's up" and start putting holes in the runway. Anything to put an end to an ongoing farce.
The true goal of this remains the same as ever, they're going to air lift out as many Afghani as possible, they've deliberately chosen two "swing" states to dump them, Wisconsin and Texas, the democrats have no intention of appealing to voters, they're just going to import them. The border is open and they're chartering buses and military flights for these migrants and sending them deep into the interior with this explicit goal in mind. By halting this farce the Taliban would actually be doing the voters a favor.
 
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The true goal of this remains the same as ever, they're going to air lift out as many Afghani as possible, they've deliberately chosen two "swing" states to dump them, Wisconsin and Texas, the democrats have no intention of appealing to voters, they're just going to import them. The border is open and they're chartering buses and military flights for these migrants and sending them deep into the interior with this explicit goal in mind. By halting this farce the Taliban would actually be doing the voters a favor.
The GOP has no balls to stop this, just like the mask mandates and other stuff.

If Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are not removed by the Midterms, then well there is no peaceful political solution left.
 
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