Team Four Star - Creators of a bunch of stuff to make people laugh trying to figure out what to do after a decade of comedically retelling Dragon Ball Z.

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It doesn't matter that what TFS is doing isn't illegal, they don't like it and want it to stop.
DBZA is very likely not legal at all. The transformative nature is dubious at best. TFS has a huge uphill battle if they were to go to court for their extensive use of unlicensed footage, music and sound effects. The majority of which contribute very little to their critique or parody of DBZ. Just play the cell saga finale where they just do a fandub of Spirit vs. Spirit in court and see how transformative it is. Making a shitty version of something isn't protected free speech.
 
No, they're not. We're talking about old farts in suits with pathological fear of change 'cause it might cut into their profits short-term. It's a culture when your superiors are always right, after all. You could rubber-stamp TFS a permit to do their silly LARP for a % cut of their profits from every source and for the ownership of the DBZA IP, that way you have another team of wage slaves keeping your own IP fresh and alive in people's conciousness for literally no effort on your side.
First of all, shouldn't you also need Toriyama's approval since the DBZ IP is his (while Toei probably only has the rights for the animated scenes)? But besides that, while just ignoring TFS is the simple method, actually giving them an official go-ahead gives Toei a responsibility for the content and conduct of the show. Which can be a massive fuckup when any of them finally goes full lolcow.
 
DBZA is very likely not legal at all. The transformative nature is dubious at best. TFS has a huge uphill battle if they were to go to court for their extensive use of unlicensed footage, music and sound effects. The majority of which contribute very little to their critique or parody of DBZ. Just play the cell saga finale where they just do a fandub of Spirit vs. Spirit in court and see how transformative it is. Making a shitty version of something isn't protected free speech.
I feel like the argument about it being transformative is in favor of TFS, but the argument about it not being a replacement for the original is dead in the water instantly. There is absolutely no way they could argue around that.
 
First of all, shouldn't you also need Toriyama's approval since the DBZ IP is his (while Toei probably only has the rights for the animated scenes)? But besides that, while just ignoring TFS is the simple method, actually giving them an official go-ahead gives Toei a responsibility for the content and conduct of the show. Which can be a massive fuckup when any of them finally goes full lolcow.
Well, sort off kinda off. If we take for example the Netflix Bebop show, they didnt need to approach the creator, just the company that has the rights with a good suitcase full of cash. Same deal would be with DBZ, cause I believe that Toei has a bigger ownage of the IP than Toryiama does.
 
@Allanon Gohan didn’t want to a be a scholar Chichi wanted him to be one. The joke is that both Chichi and Goku are idiots, Chichi is a bumpkin who wants her kid to be smart and not live in the woods. She’s vain, but they’re both loving parents in an insane world.
 
Did it? I feel like it was an oversight even in the movie where he wasn't detransformed, since the whole point was that he lost because he dropped his guard and ki only works consciously.
for me at least yes it fixed that, because the fact that he can be killed by a shot to the back even if in Super Saiyan Blue form is dumb, his body in the form should be durable enough to resist at least the damage from laser guns, especially since kid Goku's skull is durable enough to deflect bullets
 
I feel like the argument about it being transformative is in favor of TFS, but the argument about it not being a replacement for the original is dead in the water instantly. There is absolutely no way they could argue around that.
The argument isn't about it being transformative, the actual argument is about whether DBZA is a fair use which is their only defense if Toei ever took them to court. Fair use is solely a defense you can use in court and not something that automatically frees you from litigation. It's also not something universally applied and evaluated on a case by case basis. Generally the factors that courts use to evaluate are as follows:

1) Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: It could be argued that TFS is doing things non-profit but not for lack of trying. They also have a patreon along with merch that's all really skirting the line on copyright at times. I think it's a real toss up how a court would find what they do to be. It's most definitely not nonprofit nor educational. But it's not a straightforward commercial work. They have that little disclaimer in front of videos but those hold zero legal weight. I think it's a toss up and I would lean on the side of them not winning on this factor. But that's up to the hypothetical court.

2) Nature of the copyrighted work: DBZ is not some old obscure cartoon whose license holders are nowhere to be found, it's one of the biggest Japanese properties in the world. It's a commercial product and not a research paper. They absolutely lose on this count.

3) Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Another factor in which they absolutely lose. Entire episodes are derived from footage, music, sound, dialogue, etc that is not their own. They aren't short video essays. Length of the work, doesn't automatically mean something is not fair use but DBZA's core is definitely its usage of DBZ.

4) Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Ironically enough, this is one where I disagree with most people. I think that DBZA has little to no effect on DBZ's market value and as such should pass on this factor for its possible fair use argument. Hilariously, I think that DBZA's most rabid fans are the ones who are biggest reasons as to why they would fail on this factor. They have tons and tons of people talking about how it's the best version of the series. Even DBZA's creators talk about how it's had an impact on DBZ's primary fanbase.

Ultimately, we would never know until one party takes the other to court and they evaluate its fair use defense. I'm of the opinion, that DBZA fails and it fails hard due to factor 3 in particular.

Well, sort off kinda off. If we take for example the Netflix Bebop show, they didnt need to approach the creator, just the company that has the rights with a good suitcase full of cash. Same deal would be with DBZ, cause I believe that Toei has a bigger ownage of the IP than Toryiama does.
Bebop and DBZ are different in that Bebop was always an original work made for and produced by Sunrise. The creative team behind Cowboy Bebop never had any ownership in the first place. DBZ on the other hand has always been a licensed property to Toei. They hold complete rights over the animation but they still have to answer to Toriyama and Shueisha who hold the rights to the original work DBZ is adapted from. Here is the copyright page from Funimation themselves on DBZ:

1640481476142.png


You'll note that Bird Studio and Shueisha are included in the licensing legal jargon along with Toei. Shueisha is the parent owner of Dragon Ball along with Bird Studio. Shueisha is the publisher in Japan who published Dragon Ball in Weekly Shonen Jump originally and later on its collected volume formats. Bird Studio is Toriyama's studio for holding and licensing his copyrighted works, the name derives from Toriyama's name itself (Tori = bird in Japanese). Creator rights are very good for manga artists in Japan. Prominent ones also hold a lot of sway outside of the legal realm as they are given tons of deference due to the respect for them.
 
I'm not gonna touch on the slap fight over whether TFS is legal or not.

Toei legitimately sees DBZA as insulting. TFS took their beloved and we'll respected property, and edited it to add jokes and "make it better". It doesn't matter if TFS say they do it out of love or respect for the series, Toei sees it as a slap in the face by a bunch of stupid Americans that think they know better.
Don't put words in Toei's mouth. What we know is Toei believes TFS is infringing on their rights. I can basically guarantee that the decision Toei made that 'DBZA bad' came long before they had any context that it was making jokes or trying to 'make it better'. They don't have a giant flaming axe to grind with other parodies including the ones where they're downright intentionally insulting. Toei is protecting its copyright by constantly attacking what they perceive to be something infringing on their rights and stealing money from them. We know that Japense companies have very backwards views about things like pirating, and many companies have gone on record saying insane things about how they think people downloading their games for free will break them. Nintendo is one of the culprits for 'not understanding how the internet works' as they consistently take down lets play streams out of the belief that people will want to buy and play a game less if they see a streamer play it - and they care even when it's an ancient game like the early Pokemon games where they should not reasonably still be begging for profits from it.

We do not know that they think it's insulting, and there is no reason to believe they do. Japan has parodies too. They just don't use the actual footage from the show they are parodying.
@Allanon Gohan didn’t want to a be a scholar Chichi wanted him to be one. The joke is that both Chichi and Goku are idiots, Chichi is a bumpkin who wants her kid to be smart and not live in the woods. She’s vain, but they’re both loving parents in an insane world.
No, from right when Piccolo kidnaps Gohan to make him fight, Gohan says "I don't WANT to fight, I want to be a scholar!" and he is consistent about this. Gohan wants to protect his family and those he cares about, and feels driven to avenge/help bring back people like Piccolo who he feels responsible for, but at every opportunity he turns to education and a peaceful scholarly life, and generally disdains fighting unless he has to. Basically any moment you can think of that has Gohan rejecting his schooling and rebelling against Chichi is anime-only filler, because the anime turns Chichi into a shrieking harpy out of touch with reality. The manga is not nearly as bad as that: the moment where Chichi actually starts training Goten to fight as a child and only panics and shuts down his training completely when he turns super saiyan (at like 5 or 6) and triggers her PTSD is much more in line with her actual personality.

This is why I disagree with everyone who gets mad about Gohan growing up to be a scholar in the main timeline. It shows people either only watched the anime without knowing what was filler or not or they didn't actually know Gohan any better than Goku, and thought that Gohan just wants to be a fighter (even though the 'bad dad' moment in Cell Games is literally saying this is not the case)
 
Number 1. Don't even have to say what it is.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=E8C2lP4xyKc
Not sure how many DBCembers have been done, but how many times has the numer 1 choice been super obvious?
Toei legitimately sees DBZA as insulting. TFS took their beloved and we'll respected property, and edited it to add jokes and "make it better". It doesn't matter if TFS say they do it out of love or respect for the series, Toei sees it as a slap in the face by a bunch of stupid Americans that think they know better.
And the merch. Don't forget the merch.
 
Not sure how many DBCembers have been done, but how many times has the numer 1 choice been super obvious?
Looking through them again, I'd argue most, if not all, of them are pretty predictable.
Top 24 Moments: Goku turning Super Saiyan
Top 24 Specials/Movies: Battle of Gods
Top 24 Villains: Frieza
Top 24 Video Games: Budokai 3
Top 12 Fights: Goku vs. Vegeta
Top 12 Techniques: Kamehameha
Top 12 Transformations: Super Saiyan
 
Looking through them again, I'd argue most, if not all, of them are pretty predictable.
Top 24 Moments: Goku turning Super Saiyan
Top 24 Specials/Movies: Battle of Gods
Top 24 Villains: Frieza
Top 24 Video Games: Budokai 3
Top 12 Fights: Goku vs. Vegeta
Top 12 Techniques: Kamehameha
Top 12 Transformations: Super Saiyan
Wow, TFS is pretty basic.
 
Legend of Goku 2 for GBA wasn't that bad. Or maybe I was just an innocent teenager then.
I don’t know enough about DBZ games to make an assessment, except Fighterz got DB into the EVO scene and Kakarot led people make their OCs. As for Budokai, wasn’t that just a 3D fighter with a story mode that retold the DB story? I’ve only played the first one.
 
TL;DR - The only people who actually believe Goku is a bad father are just projecting their own insecurities, namely KaiserNeko. Also call your dad on Christmas.
"While Bardock is unusually similar to a sayayin and more like the Earthlings, he seems to have a little more affection for his son, and when thinking about it, Goku does not really seem to care about his children" - Akita Toriyama

"Gokū is a disaster as a father (laughs), so I think Gohan considers him a bad example." Akira Toriyama

Goku is a bad dad, but it's a racial trait of the Saiyans. He's not an abusive father, he does care if his kids die or are unwell, but it's closer to the concern of a friendship. Goku's love for his kids isn't much different from his feelings for Krillan.
 
The only thing legal you should be dicussing is if Kaiser can legally buy a gun to blow his brains out.
 
"While Bardock is unusually similar to a sayayin and more like the Earthlings, he seems to have a little more affection for his son, and when thinking about it, Goku does not really seem to care about his children" - Akita Toriyama

"Gokū is a disaster as a father (laughs), so I think Gohan considers him a bad example." Akira Toriyama

Goku is a bad dad, but it's a racial trait of the Saiyans. He's not an abusive father, he does care if his kids die or are unwell, but it's closer to the concern of a friendship. Goku's love for his kids isn't much different from his feelings for Krillan.
Again, this is that genuine austistic shit where people are incapable of comprehending that that is just Toriyama being candid and self aware about how Goku comes across, when you try and look at him & how he behaves as if he's a real person. It's not the super ultra Toriyama canon intented characterisation. It's the guy shooting the shit about his characters and literally having a laugh in one of the quotes.

Nah bro, it's ackshually the super serious saiyan dad archetype as envisioned by Akira "George Lucas" Toriyama.
 
As for Budokai, wasn’t that just a 3D fighter with a story mode

Pretty much, it was a 2.5 (?) D fighter (2d plane mostly but you could sidestep) and its main storyline was a recreation of the plot with some fun what ifs and extra scenarios thrown in


To add in further tism, Budokai 2 changed up the story mode by making it a board game where you controlled multiple characters and moved people on a board, found characters etc


Budokai 3 made the most sweeping changes by adding this neat world map where you can fly around the world, (only in the sky tho) jump down to different places and find new items and fights. You also had a pseudo RPG mode where you could take any character you want and play in that world while leveling up

All the Tenkaich had a pretty stright retelling with an emphasis on some whatifs and spectacle, i remember Tenkaichi 3 had alot of movie and extra shit from GT and DB, they also removed the RPG shit and open world in exchange for menus, iirc

I think the other games beside infinite world (pretty much Budokai 4) that added some autistic plot minigames all just used a menu or mission select like Tenkaichi, save for Ultimate Tenkaichi who tried to have the Budokai 3 open world but with a fucking autistic sayian OC and shit bossfights, not to mention the gameplay's main mechanic was fucking rock paper scissors
 
No, from right when Piccolo kidnaps Gohan to make him fight, Gohan says "I don't WANT to fight, I want to be a scholar!" and he is consistent about this. Gohan wants to protect his family and those he cares about, and feels driven to avenge/help bring back people like Piccolo who he feels responsible for, but at every opportunity he turns to education and a peaceful scholarly life, and generally disdains fighting unless he has to. Basically any moment you can think of that has Gohan rejecting his schooling and rebelling against Chichi is anime-only filler, because the anime turns Chichi into a shrieking harpy out of touch with reality. The manga is not nearly as bad as that: the moment where Chichi actually starts training Goten to fight as a child and only panics and shuts down his training completely when he turns super saiyan (at like 5 or 6) and triggers her PTSD is much more in line with her actual personality.

This is why I disagree with everyone who gets mad about Gohan growing up to be a scholar in the main timeline. It shows people either only watched the anime without knowing what was filler or not or they didn't actually know Gohan any better than Goku, and thought that Gohan just wants to be a fighter (even though the 'bad dad' moment in Cell Games is literally saying this is not the case)
Gohan's like a toddler at this point. It's not that he can't like studying, it's more that he has zero point of reference because Chichi imposes the studies on him to the point where Goku hasn't even started training him. Which obviously wouldn't be super rational either, but Goku also lacks a good perspective because he was raised by a martial artist who found him as a youngling and would naturally get him involved if only because it was one of the few things he could do in the mountains like that.

It's fine for Gohan to have ended up preferring this over fighting, but this is why Gohan saying he wants to be a scholar when he's cornered by the guy who killed his dad and is demanding he get strong enough to fight guys even stronger in like a year is not that believable a long term perspective. He's just saying that so he can get out of doing something he doesn't want to do.
 
"While Bardock is unusually similar to a sayayin and more like the Earthlings, he seems to have a little more affection for his son, and when thinking about it, Goku does not really seem to care about his children" - Akita Toriyama

"Gokū is a disaster as a father (laughs), so I think Gohan considers him a bad example." Akira Toriyama

Goku is a bad dad, but it's a racial trait of the Saiyans. He's not an abusive father, he does care if his kids die or are unwell, but it's closer to the concern of a friendship. Goku's love for his kids isn't much different from his feelings for Krillan.
Well, if you come from a culture where fathers are expected to spend most of their time working and drinking with their co-workers, it's no wonder that relationships with children are distant and seen as more of a polite obligation. I think Piccolo's purpose in the story is to try and counteract Goku's lack of close parenting by forming a tight emotional bond with Gohan and his children.
 
Well, if you come from a culture where fathers are expected to spend most of their time working and drinking with their co-workers, it's no wonder that relationships with children are distant and seen as more of a polite obligation. I think Piccolo's purpose in the story is to try and counteract Goku's lack of close parenting by forming a tight emotional bond with Gohan and his children.
Picollo being Gohan's dad is kinda similar to Goku being a bad father. It's played up a lot like a meme, but there are elements in even the old show, but especially reinforced with Super, that support it. As opposed to say "Yamcha is Gohan's dad" which is entirely a meme.

However, I think it's more of the reverse, Gohan is important to Piccolo's transformation into a hero. Piccolo originally kidnaps Gohan just cause he exhibit hidden power to use against the Saiyans. Gohan is the first person Picollo socializes with, develops an association with, and by the end of the arc he sacrifices his life to save Gohan.

Piccolo may be a father figure to Gohan, but Gohan also saved Piccolo from the legacy of his father King Piccolo.
 
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