Tesla Hate Thread - oh and come seethe about EVs in general with me

Is Tesla Gay?


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I can't imagine why an EV should be so expensive. Yes, the battery is expensive, but the rest should be mechanically much simpler and easier to build. ICE manufacturers should be easily able to use their existing platforms and manufacturing methods and CAN bus systems and so on and build an electric drive train with it. The battery is expensive, but installing the battery and drive train should be much easier than an ICE. Just leave out all the stupid software bullshit and bring back the most basic displays: Range, charge, charge change rate, speed. Add a radio that has Bluetooth connectivity and some climate controls with physical buttons and that's it, nothing else is needed.
 
I can't imagine why an EV should be so expensive. Yes, the battery is expensive, but the rest should be mechanically much simpler and easier to build. ICE manufacturers should be easily able to use their existing platforms and manufacturing methods and CAN bus systems and so on and build an electric drive train with it. The battery is expensive, but installing the battery and drive train should be much easier than an ICE. Just leave out all the stupid software bullshit and bring back the most basic displays: Range, charge, charge change rate, speed. Add a radio that has Bluetooth connectivity and some climate controls with physical buttons and that's it, nothing else is needed.
Tooling, Battery costs, and subsidies.

Traditional engines have been around Forever (as far as the engineering world goes), and the tooling for these are extremely mature, so you can start a brand new ICE brand/factory by mostly buying mature tooling, and asking your favorite chinesium fab to manufacture dies for you to cast your engines, every other part has been solved.
Things like structural battery packs, newer transfer cases that can handle instant immediate extreme torque, MUCH heavier cars, all of that requires a different engineering approach, and most car companies aren't just resistant to change, they despise it like no tomorrow. They'll spend much more time, effort, and money trying to make an EV that shares most parts with ICE cars rather than biting the bullet and rolling out proper tooling.
Tesla rolls their own tools, specialized for their cars, it's less versatile (and also why all teslas look the same) but much cheaper.

Up until recently, only hybrids carried batteries, so you had very few high capacity manufacturers, and those "high" capacities were only a few kilowatts, the highest capacity batteries hovering around 25kWh, basically jackshit.
Now, you have specialized manufacturers doing research into new chemistry, new formats, etc, and all of this needs to be amortized, rising the price of batteries to the tens of thousands of dollars per unit, B2B price.
Here, Tesla is still unique in rolling and packing their own batteries, pretty much halving the cost per kWh on their end

Lastly, for subsidies, manufacturer build their cars, target a price after seeing the build price, then slap on the subsidies on top, because subsidies are retarded.

TL;DR: OEMs make new tools, must amortize cost, OEMs make and research new batteries, must amortize cost, Subsidies are free money manufacturers can slap on top of the price for no consequence.
 
Tesla also has the benefit of the American army backing its rare earth speculation. Your nation has lithium and you're not willing to sign the rights away to Musk for cheap? Yanks may just try to overthrow you. Just look at his row with Bolivia. I don't doubt this is what his lobbying for position in Trump's regime is actually about.
 
I can't imagine why an EV should be so expensive. Yes, the battery is expensive, but the rest should be mechanically much simpler and easier to build. ICE manufacturers should be easily able to use their existing platforms and manufacturing methods and CAN bus systems and so on and build an electric drive train with it. The battery is expensive, but installing the battery and drive train should be much easier than an ICE. Just leave out all the stupid software bullshit and bring back the most basic displays: Range, charge, charge change rate, speed. Add a radio that has Bluetooth connectivity and some climate controls with physical buttons and that's it, nothing else is needed.
Because "engines cost a million kabillion dollars to manufacture and service" is a meme, not reality.
 
Because "engines cost a million kabillion dollars to manufacture and service" is a meme, not reality.
Except when it's German. BMW in particular has developed an autistic fixation with over-engineering the engine bay until every service part is as hard to reach as possible, to the point that you have to drop the engine out to change belts in some cases. Then they compound the issue by making wear parts out of biodegradable plastic. The other German marques have all followed along with the same ideas, because Germans are perverts. Every time you see someone say "engines are expensive and complicated to make and service", they're almost invariably pointing at a post-2010 BMW or Audi as they say it.
 
Lotus will be pushing back their EV transition, and will be pivoting to PHEVs instead. Those said PHEVs still will be obese pigs that don't fit the word Lotus at all.

Fiat will be releasing an Armani version of the 500e, aka more lipstick on a pig:

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A Hyundai gracefully gave its life (unless somehow miraculously it isn't totalled), to take out (or tried to take out) a crappy Chink EV:

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And this cringy as fuck Kia ad for the EV9 slipped under the radar because of JaGUar, but it's expected that KN would stoop to this low after killing off the Stinger:

 
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Long review of the upgraded Model 3, from JayEmm on Cars. He's balanced as he can be about it, but about half way through the review he mentions that the car slammed on the brakes on a motorway, because it mistook an overhead gantry for a wall. Tesla's response was to tell him to turn the autodrive off if he didn't want phantom braking. It also has issues with randomly slowing for no reason and the parking "sensors" don't work in the dark, because they're just cameras. Lots of things to complain about. He repeatedly labours the point that every single control is through the centre console. He likes the driving experience, for the most part, and the fact that it's a proper saloon instead of a crossover.
 
, they're almost invariably pointing at a post-2010 BMW or Audi as they say it.
i know this might be an oxymoron but when were the last good BMW or Audi years, I know people say the 2000s were the last ones for Mercedes, but is it true for the other euro companies? like they all got fucked by regulations in that era.
 
i know this might be an oxymoron but when were the last good BMW or Audi years, I know people say the 2000s were the last ones for Mercedes, but is it true for the other euro companies? like they all got fucked by regulations in that era.
Early 2000s at the latest. The problem is less regulatory and more that Germans always over-engineer everything. Other manufacturers are following the trend to a degree (especially when it comes to plastic posts), but their engines are much more accessible, so much less expensive, and their parts much cheaper to buy.
 
3 people were killed, and 1 person was injured after their Cybertruck crashed and caught fire. The one survivor was pulled out of the car by a passerby driver that stopped to offer aid.

JaGUar takes another L, as they're going to buyback about 3000 2019 I-Paces, due to risk of fire. The previous recall remedy of installing diagnostic software to check the batteries did not work, as some were still catching fire.

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So assuming that JaGUar pays $20k for each bought back I-Pace, they're going to spend about $60 MILLION to get these turds out of drivers' hands.

And Chinese EVs continue to be garbage, as a Thai BYD owner crashed his car, but the airbags didn't deploy. At least the driver escaped with just bruised arms.

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On the other hand, do Chinese EV makers also make trims without them for poorer countries, to cut prices even further?
 
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On the other hand, do Chinese EV makers also make trims without them for poorer countries, to cut prices even further?
Having a lower quality trim specifically for China vs the West is common, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just shipped Chinese-spec BYDs to third world shitholes.
 
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Lotus will be pushing back their EV transition, and will be pivoting to PHEVs instead. Those said PHEVs still will be obese pigs that don't fit the word Lotus at all.
That’s because they’re a Chinese EV brand now and all of them have been switching to series hybrids where the engine is a generator and the drivetrain is electric.

They’re discovering what Chevy and BMW discovered years ago with the Volt and i3. RAM’s and VW’s new “EV” trucks are also series hybrids.

Pure EVs will be dead outside of a small niche in a few years.
 
That’s because they’re a Chinese EV brand now
Look what they did to my boy...
I used to be the proud owner of an Evora S, which was sublime when it worked. Now...they are just a shell of their past. The Evora Mk3 otherwise known as the Emira was meh, and nothing else in thier line deserves the badge 'Lotus'
 
The EU is implementing a ban on hybrids from 2035, though, and the UK is following suit because of course we are. They all seem determined to ensure that BEVs are the only allowed form of transportation.
Well yeah, mustn’t let the plebs have the range to flee the will of their overlords.
 
Well yeah, mustn’t let the plebs have the range to flee the will of their overlords.
It's much easier to control movement if you can just turn off the chargers. Charger availability and price also ensure that the plebs either can't afford a BEV or won't be practically able to use even if they could afford it. BEVs are for people with single family homes and enough money to put a charger in their carport and solar cells on their roofs. Regular charging costs are more per km than gasoline, with shit range and long charging times.
I love how BEV apologists are like "Yeah, I mean I take a stop after a few hours of driving anyway, so charging is just done while I have a coffee, a snack, and a cigarette".
Which only works if BEVs are few and far in between, and already I see the chargers at rest stops on the highway frequently filled up. Sure, your charge for the next two hours might take you 20 minutes, but if you have to wait in line for them, it's gonna be add up. And adding up charger capacity isn't that easy, a fast charger can easily pull a few hundred kW, and if you have like ten of those your humble rest stop will suddenly pull a MW or more of extra electricity. It's not needed the entire time, but the power lines going there must be capable of that. We already see in residential areas that the power grid can't handle that many fast charging stations.
And your rest stops are limited to gas stations because you have to stop to charge. With an ICE car you can rest at the most basic stops, just stretch your legs, have a fag, and piss on the side. Not with a BEV, always gotta go to the big ones and pay premium prices for the charger, too.
Unless a real breakthrough in battery tech comes along, an ICE ban is equivalent to the ban of individual motorized travel for a large section of the population.
While I think the ban on ICE is mostly for newly registered cars and not effective immediately for pulling all ICE cars off the road, gas and diesel will be made progressively more expensive with carbon taxes and so on, effectively making ICE cars prohibitively expensive for regular people. So they can't afford neither and are at the whims of public transport.
 
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