Tesla Hate Thread - oh and come seethe about EVs in general with me

[Owlbear]

The demo still showed some impressive hardware. What's lacking is the software, but unlike hardware, software is easy to modify. This generation is decidedly more impressive than the ASIMO of the past. If it can be remotely controlled by a human operator, it can be remotely controlled by a neural net in a datacentre somewhere.

You must have skipped out on your required viewing. ASIMO was created before 9/11. Modern bipedal robots do this:

Elon Musk's RC toys pale in comparison. They would fall over given a stiff breeze. They also demonstrated no autonomy at all, and were openly remote-controlled. Maybe they walked on their own, but that's the best case.

 

[Susanna]

You must have skipped out on your required viewing. ASIMO was created before 9/11. Modern bipedal robots do this:

Elon Musk's RC toys pale in comparison. They would fall over given a stiff breeze. They also demonstrated no autonomy at all, and were openly remote-controlled. Maybe they walked on their own, but that's the best case.

ATLAS isn't autonomous either, it's just really good at kinematics. Both sets of bots are pre-programmed, it's just Musk isn't working on a military research budget, and the development is for a consumer product in the first place. Consumers don't' want a bot that can do parkour, they want a bot that can make and serve dinner, then put the dishes away.

Stop making me defend Tesla, I can't stand them either.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

The bar tender demo is bullshit, the glasses are all indexed so it's very easy to automate without complex vision systems. What vision that might be used couldn't tell if the glass was properly full. I also notice that there isn't much foam in the beer, possible they are running the CO2 low to keep the feed more consistent so a simple timer can be used. The idea is it's supposed to drop into human labor but this is a job we've vending machines for that do a better job.

As to vision and robo taxis in general, when Tesla can run those stupid taxis in tunnels in Las Vegas I'll believe they have made some viable progress on automation.

There is already a very impressive robot bartender that works very well and is available for consumers. The only problem is it's aboard a few Royal Caribbean ships in their Bionic Bar area and takes up the space of a whole bar.

 

[jalopy]

The demo still showed some impressive hardware. What's lacking is the software, but unlike hardware, software is easy to modify. This generation is decidedly more impressive than the ASIMO of the past. If it can be remotely controlled by a human operator, it can be remotely controlled by a neural net in a datacentre somewhere.

I'm going to assume you have never seen end of arm tooling on a jelly bean industrial robot. Never mind what a competent operator can do with a pendant on bespoke machines. This was a joke.
I also love the idea that motion control on dozens of servos is done at a data center somewhere. Fuck off. You've no idea what you're talking about.

Stop making me defend Tesla, I can't stand them either.

lol, don't then.

the development is for a consumer product in the first place.

He sells it as an assembly line drop in solution every quarterly call. Yet to see it even pour a beer correctly, shit a downie can do. Hell, the average British Layland union jagoff could do that.

Elon Musk's RC toys pale in comparison. They would fall over given a stiff breeze. They also demonstrated no autonomy at all, and were openly remote-controlled. Maybe they walked on their own, but that's the best case.

Musk isn't working on a military research budget

Speaking of military research budgets, HUBO did great in the DARPA challenge a decade ago. It didn't have a military budget, it's a school.

 

[Susanna]

I'm going to assume you have never seen end of arm tooling on a jelly bean industrial robot. Never mind what a competent operator can do with a pendant on bespoke machines. This was a joke..

This isn’t an industrial robot. Industrial robots are built inside cages which shut them off when you open the gate for access, this thing is supposed to operate directly next to people. It needs to be slow and weak enough that it won’t hurt someone.

He sells it as an assembly line drop in solution every quarterly call. Yet to see it even pour a beer correctly, shit a downie can do. Hell, the average British Layland union jagoff could do that.

That’s fucking retarded, I had no idea he’s made such claims. All I’ve seen is the “this thing will cook and serve you dinner”. This thing could maybe be a work robot in an office, bringing coffee to conference rooms or whatever, but it’s in no way up to par with anything industry wants.

I also love the idea that motion control on dozens of servos is done at a data center somewhere. Fuck off. You've no idea what you're talking about.

Never said that. Of course the actual controller is going to be in the robot itself. But they likely will offload a lot of the more complicated software into the cloud, both to save money (economy of scale, a gigaflop in a datacentre is a fraction of the cost of a gigaflop in the home) and to earn money (subscription-based home automation). The robot will look at its surroundings, identify some things on its own, and send a picture to the cloud to add to your advertising profile, but it will also be able to fetch instructions like “operating generic microwave layout 3” based on image recognition that wouldn’t be practical to keep in the hardware proper, both because it’s going to need frequent updates but also because there’s a massive variety in what it would need to recognise. It needs to be able to recognise not just glasses and plates, but rice cookers, coffee pots, ovens, every single ingredient in your fridge, etc.
I still doubt Tesla will be the ones to make a practical domestic robot, they can’t even make practical cars and that’s been their main business since the beginning, but this demo was about what you would expect from a domestic robot. If it was actually intended as a demo for an industrial robot, I agree that it’s beyond pathetic.

 

[The Ugly One]

ATLAS isn't autonomous either, it's just really good at kinematics. Both sets of bots are pre-programmed, it's just Musk isn't working on a military research budget, and the development is for a consumer product in the first place.

Elon's bot is to scam investors while staying inside the letter of US securities fraud law.

Stop making me defend Tesla, I can't stand them either.

You won't have to if you understand how the scam works.

Tesla frequently runs into cash flow problems and has trouble covering expenses. When this happens, Elon throws a big party, like "AI Day" or whatever, where he announces stunning, game-changing technology, coming soon at an impossible price on an impossible timeline, that will totally make a trillion dollars for real this time, guys. Suckers fall for it and buy piles of Tesla stock, which they then do some shell games with to keep the company liquid. Tesla then does just enough R&D to not technically be committing investor fraud.

A promised product can be shit (FSD), delayed indefinitely (Roadster 2), quietly shelved (Dojo superchip), or years late and double the promised price (Cybertruck). You can make crazy ambitional statements ("We expect to have 2 million robotaxis on the street by 2021"). It just can't be totally 100% fake.

Tesla Personal Assistant, which was announced in 2021 to cover some cash flow issues, will probably never come to market, certainly not for $30,000. "Very expensive, fragile bartender" is not a mass-market use case. All these things were done to look flashy, impress investors, and keep that stock up, since Tesla just had its worst fiscal year in a long time.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Tesla has slashed the prices of the Cybertruck by $20k. The AWD trim now costs $80k, and the Cyberbeast costs $100k. The RWD trim has yet to return though.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Reviews of the VW ID.Buzz are coming out, and it turns out the AWD trim is over 6100 lbs, way more than the infamously overweight Vinfast VF8, and is heavier than the 3-row Kia EV9.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The whole field of robotics is a meme. If you can afford one you can afford to bring multiple times a week a person from an agency to clean up your house and infinitely less likely to burst open a family member's head when it fails recognizing a scene correctly.

Ditto for manufacturing, either use a robo arm that is way more efficient, or employ third worlders that cost pennies.

The only reason people care about the subject is the robo waifu promise.

 

[Weapons of Mass Tardation]

Reviews of the VW ID.Buzz are coming out, and it turns out the AWD trim is over 6100 lbs, way more than the infamously overweight Vinfast VF8, and is heavier than the Kia EV6.

Damn that's like the hamplanet of cars.

I love how the marketing lit for that just shows a much of gross looking boomer hippies and soys, because I can't imagine anyone else dumb enough to buy this shit. My god damn S10 blazer I think had more interior space and half the curb weight. Hell my three quarter ton suburban weighs less, has more room, and pulls way the fuck more. VW (and its corporate brethern like Audi) sucks major ass (as someone who's had to work doing service on Euro cars), so I doubt it's going to remotely be an improvement in the service department. There's still a killing to be made out there fixing busted Beetles and microbuses when the head cracks or other shit falls apart because pot smoking boomers love them so much.

Tesla has slashed the prices of the Cybertruck by $20k. The AWD trim now costs $80k, and the Cyberbeast costs $100k. The RWD trim has yet to return though.

I'm amazed they can sell them at even half that. I've got a neighbor that ranks pretty low in the common sense department that bought one, and tried to pull a double axle lowboy with it and had remarkably poor results. I don't think he made it more than 50 or so miles between needing to recharge. All he ever does it bitch about it, but he doesn't want to look like one of the poors like me and drive a pedestrian ass older truck. When I showed some of the old boomer autobody guys the Cybertruck, the ones that had ever tried to repaint or rework a Delorean DMC had a hell of a laugh at it (SS, if you've never done a minute of manual labor in your life looks like a good body panel material, but in reality is turbo AIDs compared to mild steel + good automotive paint or Saturn-style heavy plastic body panels).

I can't possibly rationalize why you would ever buy a unibody truck, or one that you couldn't easily put a ladder rack, flatbed or tommy gate on.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

those robots were being controlled by someone with a VR headset and shit

It's a neat idea. It effectively solves immigrantion debates. You can still have 3rd worlders do all the jobs. But now they stay in their own fucking country and just use robots to do them.

Just like we saw with Amazon grocery and other locations with check outs but with robots you can do so much more, bartending is a pretty big jump then there's teaching and a shitload of other occupations. Amusement park employees as well as most small scale "entertainment" ideas.

The mechanical turk is a feature not a bug. Also there's the "ugly" factor too. Plenty of vtuber type people who have everything except the attractive body or face. Now they can be the shitty low level bartenders they always dreamed of.

Of course they've had real robot bartenders on cruise ships and other places but it's gimmick wears out fast there too.

then they've made HUGE leap forward as I've not seen anything else come even close.

If there's one person who's had this said about their companies multiple times it's musk

Stop making me defend Tesla, I can't stand them either

That's the problem with 90% of musk's critics they argue in bad faith. It's crazy how often on Twitter I'll find someone making half decent points only for them to go "Elon musk is like Kiwifarms made human he should be in jail for his stance on transgender people"

can't possibly rationalize why you would ever buy a unibody truck, or one that you couldn't easily put a ladder rack, flatbed or tommy gate on.

Most people with trucks never use them for what trucks are meant to do. Dick Masterson has a truck and doesn't own a screwdriver. It's a very common "status symbol" and has been for awhile. Tesla making a truck you can't do truck stuff in isn't that insane.

Think about how many people own guns they don't use, maybe once a year at a range at most. Trucks have a similar usage rate for hauling or putting shit in them

 

[DavidS877]

over 6100 lbs

My pickup only weighs 9000. And does 450 miles on a charge. This 'lifestyle' vehicle does 230 miles, and under 200 miles at 75 mph. That's not road-trip range, that's barely usable. And they want over $60k for it. I'd be happier if my pickup weighed less, but GM knows their market and shoved a giant battery in it.

 

[Lichen Bark]

Accoring to the Q3 earnings call Tesla reiterated they WILL NOT be making a vehicle under 30k that has a steering wheel, or manual controls. If you want a cheap 30k EV you WONT be able to drive it yourself.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

Accoring to the Q3 earnings call Tesla reiterated they WILL NOT be making a vehicle under 30k that has a steering wheel, or manual controls. If you want a cheap 30k EV you WONT be able to drive it yourself.

understood, i will be buying a nissan leaf

 

[teriyakiburns]

I'm just going to weld another set of galvanised square steels to replace the rocker panels on my cherokee and call it a day.

 

[CaptainAutism69]

understood, i will be buying a nissan leaf

buy a proper car you faggot

 

[DeadwastePrime]

buy a proper car you faggot

understood, i will be buying a nissan leaf

 

[Thiletonomics]

Ford will be suspending production of the F-150 Lightning until next year, due to slowing sales. Ford choosing to make more of the expensive trims, while EV demand is already slowing down, resulted in this obvious result that people could literally see for miles.

 

[jalopy]

This isn’t an industrial robot. Industrial robots are built inside cages which shut them off when you open the gate for access, this thing is supposed to operate directly next to people. It needs to be slow and weak enough that it won’t hurt someone.

It's slow and shitty because it's not in a safety cage? Well, I don't have a safety cage in my kitchen so I'm seeing a problem is all.
And I have to push back on the idea that they hindered it for safety, they are remote controlled, simple as. If they were operating autonomously then you can virtually gate speed. If unexpected object in this area, slow down, if reaching outside of defined area, slow down, if literally any error occurs, slow down.

“operating generic microwave layout 3”

Something like this is why it probably will need to be localized processing. That or your buying appliances integrated with these robots via WiFi or NFC. There are so many layouts for microwaves, even within the same model family. The membrane on mine went bad and I learned that it had five revisions, without pictures to figure out which one was which. Many returns with the parts department.

(as someone who's had to work doing service on Euro cars)

You will buy the triple square sockets and e-torx bits and enjoy it. Yes, they really needed to use a weird bolt with a stud sticking out of it at the ass end of the engine. Yes, you will need a 18mm, thin walled, twelve point, extra deep socket to take it out. Fuck you, sincerely, The Volkswagon Group.

I'm just going to weld another set of galvanised square steels to replace the rocker panels on my cherokee and call it a day.

Just grind off the galvanization where your going to weld. Or wear a respirator. The fumes are toxic.

 

[The Ugly One]

Never said that. Of course the actual controller is going to be in the robot itself. But they likely will offload a lot of the more complicated software into the cloud

Processing power is a huge red flag for this being a scam. Tesla PA would in principle have to have much more complex inferencing than FSD. FSD, for example, doesn't have to know precisely what an obstacle is. Tesla PA needs to understand natural language, tell the difference between a drinking glass and a soup can, read text, identify and use arbitrary models and configurations of household devices, and so on. FSD already uses 72W to inference and isn't very good at it. They can't put a battery in this thing big enough to make it useful for extended periods of time. There are a lot of cool ideas that get their asses kicked by energy conservation laws.

and to earn money (subscription-based home automation). The robot will look at its surroundings, identify some things on its own, and send a picture to the cloud to add to your advertising profile, but it will also be able to fetch instructions like “operating generic microwave layout 3” based on image recognition that wouldn’t be practical to keep in the hardware proper, both because it’s going to need frequent updates but also because there’s a massive variety in what it would need to recognise. It needs to be able to recognise not just glasses and plates, but rice cookers, coffee pots, ovens, every single ingredient in your fridge, etc.

It needs to not do things like grip a glass too hard and crush it, or accidentally burn your food, pull down a bunch of plates and smash them, fail to see a glass door and smash through it, or melt a rayon blouse with a too-hot iron, etc. It needs to have a zero percent failure rate. Every single thing it breaks will be a liability for Tesla. Even if they make you sign away your right to complain when it kills your dog, it will be a brand disaster.

My guess is they will never release anything at all to the market. This product will end up being another Dojo Supercomputer or Battery Swap Station.

Ford will be suspending production of the F-150 Lightning until next year, due to slowing sales. Ford choosing to make more of the expensive trims, while EV demand is already slowing down, resulted in this obvious result that people could literally see for miles.

That, and Trump being President means there's no chance of a national EV mandate in the next 4 years. People don't actually want these stupid things. American automakers were preparing for a mandate, since it seemed inevitable.