Tesla Hate Thread - oh and come seethe about EVs in general with me

[Thiletonomics]

Sony Honda Mobility revealed more details about the Afeela 1. It starts at $90K, and the higher trim costs $103K. Reservations for this car are now available, for California residents-only, as usual.



Sony even doubled down on the CaaS with the numerous features locked in a subscription paywall after the 3 year "complimentary subscription" period ends.

They also talked about the "media bar" feature on the front of the car:

The dual motors providing only 360kW (482hp) of power output, and the estimated 300 mile range makes this car not even competitive with the Tesla Model S and the Lucid Air, and Chinese EVs (despite them being completely shit too) will undercut the shit out of this car.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Seriously, I would kill for kei cars to be a thing in the US.

I blame chicken tax, crash safety ratings, and the retardation of congress mandating shit like rearview cameras.

And that's another reason why not to buy Chinese EVs, although the Urbanists and EV Simps will just brush aside those horrifying conditions as "BIG OIL MAGA and Alt-Right Republican PSYOP propaganda".

There's a more intresting economic issue to this. The Chinese call it "卷" and it lacks a apt-english translation. Closest meaning would be "to be drawn into the whirlwind" + cutthroat.

It has to do with the massive population and the "dominance" of manufacturing (rather, the more the inability of the US/EU to be competitive) that this shit to have worldwide effects. It would be like if this happened in the 50s with the USA.

Basically you have something that has a high profit margin (Say, early EVs eg: Tesla), the first few guys who do it get joined by hundreds of thousands of people, then the cutthroat price war begins. Now you end up with a lot fewer players, but because China isn't like the US where you can donate election funds, you get shit like folks getting whacked, customs seizing your shit, bogus fines and getting the shit beat out of you by cops. Finally, you're down to like 10 companies. Now suddenly the government decides it's not profitable enough from the taxes they get, and you're a "disfavored polluting industry" and you now have to pay ex-post facto back taxes on shit you were exempt from from the beginning of time (Great example: Bitcoin mining, they declared it "unfavored" and levied back taxes and a 95% gains "administrative penalty for breaking environmental regulations" ex post facto).

The conspiracy I heard talking with some folks in the industry on the Chinese side was that originally, everyone wanted to do hydrogen. But the US-China were so far behind the tech vs Japan (mainly Toyota), so they conspired to keep the Hydrogen vehicle market from becoming a thing, they'll take a crack at it after the Japanese companies give up the tech edge or forced to sell out the tech.

tl;dr We'll go back to coal after this green shit so they can sell your Hydrogen vehicles.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

The conspiracy I heard talking with some folks in the industry on the Chinese side was that originally, everyone wanted to do hydrogen. But the US-China were so far behind the tech vs Japan (mainly Toyota), so they conspired to keep the Hydrogen vehicle market from becoming a thing, they'll take a crack at it after the Japanese companies give up the tech edge or forced to sell out the tech.

tl;dr We'll go back to coal after this green shit so they can sell your Hydrogen vehicles.

It's looking like Toyota's gamble on hydrogen for normal consumers is starting to fail though. The Mirai is a tough sell even in California and barely 50% of the hydrogen pumps work at any given time. Seeing how successful China has been in the consumer drone market (DJI, Autel), I think they just might edge out in the EV space too if the Xiaomi SU7 is any indication.

 

[cactus]

I blame chicken tax, crash safety ratings, and the retardation of congress mandating shit like rearview cameras.

You can easily incorporate the rearview camera and a sturdier frame, what makes the kei car is the smaller engine than a standard car.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

You can easily incorporate the rearview camera and a sturdier frame, what makes the kei car is the smaller engine than a standard car.

Sadly, the average American wants a tall, fat ass pickup that can also compete in 0-60 competitions while hauling ass with his family and a trailer down an Interstate going 90mph with heated seats instead of a vehicle to go from point A to B and haul shit with high efficiency.

 

[geckogoy]

Sadly, the average American wants a tall, fat ass pickup that can also compete in 0-60 competitions while hauling ass with his family and a trailer down an Interstate going 90mph with heated seats instead of a vehicle to go from point A to B and haul shit with high efficiency.

 

[DavidS877]

Sadly, the average American wants a tall, fat ass pickup that can also compete in 0-60 competitions while hauling ass with his family and a trailer down an Interstate going 90mph with heated seats instead of a vehicle to go from point A to B and haul shit with high efficiency.

Me and my 0-60 in under 6 second pickup are not seeing a problem here. So what if it's just a giant battery and weighs 9000lbs.

 

[The Ugly One]

The conspiracy I heard talking with some folks in the industry on the Chinese side was that originally, everyone wanted to do hydrogen. But the US-China were so far behind the tech vs Japan (mainly Toyota), so they conspired to keep the Hydrogen vehicle market from becoming a thing, they'll take a crack at it after the Japanese companies give up the tech edge or forced to sell out the tech.

There are US and EU companies investing heavily in hydrogen. It's just a bad idea. Low density + leakage + infrastructure problems.

Now you end up with a lot fewer players, but because China isn't like the US where you can donate election funds

On the flip side, they don't choke out an industry because blacks & women aren't doing well enough in it.

 

[Lichen Bark]

Sony Honda Mobility revealed more details about the Afeela 1. It starts at $90K, and the higher trim costs $103K. Reservations for this car are now available, for California residents-only, as usual.

View attachment 6832846

Sony even doubled down on the CaaS with the numerous features locked in a subscription paywall after the 3 year "complimentary subscription" period ends.

They also talked about the "media bar" feature on the front of the car:

The dual motors providing only 360kW (482hp) of power output, and the estimated 300 mile range makes this car not even competitive with the Tesla Model S and the Lucid Air, and Chinese EVs (despite them being completely shit too) will undercut the shit out of this car.

Afeela your bank account getting drained.

It's looking like Toyota's gamble on hydrogen for normal consumers is starting to fail though. The Mirai is a tough sell even in California and barely 50% of the hydrogen pumps work at any given time. Seeing how successful China has been in the consumer drone market (DJI, Autel), I think they just might edge out in the EV space too if the Xiaomi SU7 is any indication.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/high-pressure-hydrogen-tank-testing

I really don't care how well you test a tank, there is now way in hell I am going to attach a hose to my vehicle and fill it with a gas at 10,000 PSI. Not a fucking chance.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

It's looking like Toyota's gamble on hydrogen for normal consumers is starting to fail though

does it work in japan?

 

[teriyakiburns]

does it work in japan?

No. Much as I am a hydrogen booster myself (it is superior to BEV in most respects), there are fundamental flaws that prevent it from being more than a meme. There were less than 500 hydrogen cars sold in japan in 2023 (down by half from 2022 sales), and that number has only dropped since. Toyota is now pivoting to using hydrogen to make synthetic fuels, rather than burning hydrogen directly in a vehicle, which leaves the door open to maintaining existing fuel supply chains and doesn't require a complete redesign of their entire manufacturing process. Much of the rest of the industry is starting to lean in the same direction, as much as they can given various government mandates to ban new ICE production. I expect industry pressure will see many of those mandates pushed into the future and eventually neutered.

 

[Meriasek]

The dual motors providing only 360kW (482hp) of power output

"Only"?
I'd say that's more than enough, especially considering the torque.

 

[quaawaa]

"Only"?
I'd say that's more than enough, especially considering the torque.

Not for a car that weighs a 5000 lbs and costs $100k.

 

[Thiletonomics]

"Only"?
I'd say that's more than enough, especially considering the torque.

Not for a car that weighs a 5000 lbs and costs $100k.

Also, both the Tesla Model S and Lucid Air start at lower price than the Afeela 1, have longer battery range, and both have more power in their motors too. The Model S has 670 HP and 402 miles of range in it's base trim, and 1020 HP and 359 miles of range in its Plaid trim that cost only a little bit more than the base Afeela. The Lucid Air has 620 HP and about 406 miles of range in its 2nd trim.

This car is definitely not competitive for its asking price, in terms of driving performance.

 

[Meriasek]

Also, both the Tesla Model S and Lucid Air start at lower price than the Afeela 1, have longer battery range, and both have more power in their motors too. The Model S has 670 HP and 402 miles of range in it's base trim, and 1020 HP and 359 miles of range in its Plaid trim that cost only a little bit more than the base Afeela. The Lucid Air has 620 HP and about 406 miles of range in its 2nd trim.

This car is definitely not competitive for its asking price, in terms of driving performance.

Who the fuck needs that much horsepower besides niggers and tech bros touching their limp dicks while on "Ludicrous Mode" or whatever?

Not for a car that weighs a 5000 lbs and costs $100k.

You can't tell me that even 5000 lbs won't move faster than you'd ever realistically need from a standstill with nearly 500HP and massive instant torque. Price is fully irrelevant there, it has more than enough power. Although I agree that for that price the range should be better.

 

[cactus]

Sadly, the average American wants a tall, fat ass pickup that can also compete in 0-60 competitions while hauling ass with his family and a trailer down an Interstate going 90mph with heated seats instead of a vehicle to go from point A to B and haul shit with high efficiency.

But I wanna save money dammit!

 

[Betonhaus]

Finally found the metaphor I referenced but couldn't find.

 

[DavidS877]

But I wanna save money dammit!

My electric car will pay for itself in 500,000 miles. Assuming the alternative got the same 27MPG as my last truck and was $50k.

I think it was a good investment.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

My electric car will pay for itself in 500,000 miles. Assuming the alternative got the same 27MPG as my last truck and was $50k.

I think it was a good investment.

39 MPG on my 3k inline diesel from the 80s (MSRP $~8,500). Only thing it won't beat is comfort (base model no A/C or PS) and speed/accel (I tow ~2k over 600 miles regularly).

There's also like no charging stations in bumfuck nowhere...

 

[Fabio Socialist]

Electric cars are a complete and utter scam and the only people who buy into it are retards who don't believe in science.