Tesla Hate Thread - oh and come seethe about EVs in general with me

[Burnt Effigy]

Okay, I have a potential business disaster to watch here:

The reason why this raises my alarms so much is that they're pretty much claiming that they have found the holy grail of vehicle-sized motors.

They're claiming that a single 17in motor, which is (I believe) around or under 2 inches thick, can output TWO HUNDRED FUCKING HORSEPOWER per motor. You'd have at least 2 in a car.

One of Tesla Model S Plaid's rear motors is about 22 inches long, and while it has a much smaller stator (looks like about 8 inches), the stator itself is much longer ('bout 10 inches). One of these makes 414hp. How do you reduce the size and winding length while going over an order of magnitude in power density? Smells fishy.

Their car-sized motor (the 21in) is expected to generate 844hp PER WHEEL. 3376HP on a single car with their "cheaper than any other motor" solution that "reduces cost of the drivetrain significantly"? I call bullshit.

Their drone motor, supposedly "just" a scaled down version of the wheel hub engine, doesn't even come remotely close to matching proper drone motors except for torque, which isn't exactly the most important factor in the air anyway: https://store.tmotor.com/product/u15-v2-motor-u-power-kv80.html

The other funny thing is that they talk about "unsprung mass" not being a problem anymore.

Spoiler: tldr unsprung mass

Unsprung mass is the complete mass of the vehicle that is not carried directly by the suspensions.
High unsprung mass causes more strain on the shocks, this results in the shocks either having to be stiffer (as they have to combat more momentum in bumps) or keeping the same force, but at the risk of losing road adhesion at the smallest of bumps.
It also impacts steering feel, as you need to move much heavier loads with the steering wheel, and, when the vehicle is stopped, it's much harder for the wheel to rub and bounce off the shocks, causing more tire damage.

Unsprung mass is the one reason nobody does in-wheel motors. Well, that, and fucking up a wheel motor is much more expensive than swapping a knuckle and a hub.

But they don't go into any detail about it. They just say that it's "very high torque and high power density". Cool. How does that reduce the problem of unsprung mass? You're gonna get the wheel flying off the road even faster? Faggot.

Add their INDUSTRY DISTURBING bullshit on top, supposedly, integrating motors, controllers, batteries, BMSes and ECUs is "too hard" and "time intensive" and "One of the most work intensive part of building a car"
Nigger. Have you ever worked on a car? Or any electromechanical project for that matter?
Batteries and BMSes aren't paired, because batteries are batteries. At most, you need to tell the BMS chemistry details and degradation characteristics, that's it.
ECUs and BMSes talk over CAN, which, sure, can have deviations, will generally follow the same protocol per manufacturer, and trust me, big car manufacturers are not gonna switch BMS provider every week.
And finally, motors and motor controllers are always paired, the ECU<->Controller communication may take a bit of time to setup, but by that I maybe mean a week.

We're talking about car manufacturers. They have engineers. They're smart. They can program and read documentation. They don't need your one and done walled garden bullshit.

This entire thing reeks of bullshit and scam, I'd say it's probably Theranos level of bullshit to the untrained eye. Slap the clear Apple fanboy bullshit coat they have on everything, and I'm 100% expecting this shit to go bankrupt within 2 years.

 

[Unique Username KF]

Okay, I have a potential business disaster to watch here:

Your browser is not able to display this video.

The reason why this raises my alarms so much is that they're pretty much claiming that they have found the holy grail of vehicle-sized motors.

They're claiming that a single 17in motor, which is (I believe) around or under 2 inches thick, can output TWO HUNDRED FUCKING HORSEPOWER per motor. You'd have at least 2 in a car.

One of Tesla Model S Plaid's rear motors is about 22 inches long, and while it has a much smaller stator (looks like about 8 inches), the stator itself is much longer ('bout 10 inches). One of these makes 414hp. How do you reduce the size and winding length while going over an order of magnitude in power density? Smells fishy.

Their car-sized motor (the 21in) is expected to generate 844hp PER WHEEL. 3376HP on a single car with their "cheaper than any other motor" solution that "reduces cost of the drivetrain significantly"? I call bullshit.

Their drone motor, supposedly "just" a scaled down version of the wheel hub engine, doesn't even come remotely close to matching proper drone motors except for torque, which isn't exactly the most important factor in the air anyway: https://store.tmotor.com/product/u15-v2-motor-u-power-kv80.html

The other funny thing is that they talk about "unsprung mass" not being a problem anymore.

Spoiler: tldr unsprung mass

Unsprung mass is the complete mass of the vehicle that is not carried directly by the suspensions.
High unsprung mass causes more strain on the shocks, this results in the shocks either having to be stiffer (as they have to combat more momentum in bumps) or keeping the same force, but at the risk of losing road adhesion at the smallest of bumps.
It also impacts steering feel, as you need to move much heavier loads with the steering wheel, and, when the vehicle is stopped, it's much harder for the wheel to rub and bounce off the shocks, causing more tire damage.

Unsprung mass is the one reason nobody does in-wheel motors. Well, that, and fucking up a wheel motor is much more expensive than swapping a knuckle and a hub.

But they don't go into any detail about it. They just say that it's "very high torque and high power density". Cool. How does that reduce the problem of unsprung mass? You're gonna get the wheel flying off the road even faster? Faggot.

Add their INDUSTRY DISTURBING bullshit on top, supposedly, integrating motors, controllers, batteries, BMSes and ECUs is "too hard" and "time intensive" and "One of the most work intensive part of building a car"
Nigger. Have you ever worked on a car? Or any electromechanical project for that matter?
Batteries and BMSes aren't paired, because batteries are batteries. At most, you need to tell the BMS chemistry details and degradation characteristics, that's it.
ECUs and BMSes talk over CAN, which, sure, can have deviations, will generally follow the same protocol per manufacturer, and trust me, big car manufacturers are not gonna switch BMS provider every week.
And finally, motors and motor controllers are always paired, the ECU<->Controller communication may take a bit of time to setup, but by that I maybe mean a week.

We're talking about car manufacturers. They have engineers. They're smart. They can program and read documentation. They don't need your one and done walled garden bullshit.

This entire thing reeks of bullshit and scam, I'd say it's probably Theranos level of bullshit to the untrained eye. Slap the clear Apple fanboy bullshit coat they have on everything, and I'm 100% expecting this shit to go bankrupt within 2 years.

I agree with what you said about unsprung mass and commercial viability, but the power density figure may not be so far-fetched – the Koenigsegg 'Dark Matter' electric motor makes 800 hp and weighs 39 kg, and that thing is a few years old.

 

[Burnt Effigy]

I agree with what you said about unsprung mass and commercial viability, but the power density figure may not be so far-fetched – the Koenigsegg 'Dark Matter' electric motor makes 800 hp and weighs 39 kg, and that thing is a few years old.

I take that in combination with the entire video, Donut is attempting to make a hollow, mass market, "affordable" priced motor that can survive road hazards while basically riding the entire weight of the car on bearings, and having said bearings supposed to resist shocks and road grime over a long time, while the motor has a higher power to weight ratio than the 'Dark Matter'.

Koeningsegg's motor is a niche, ultra-high-performance, probably hand-built motor whose output shaft is a tiny fraction of the entire volume, and doesn't have to survive a fraction of the hazards that a hub motor should survive. The motor itself probably costs close to 5k a piece to manufacture.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong and they did figure out the first coming of the Motor-Messiah, but I'm not convinced.

 

[Lichen Bark]

Have you ever worked on a car? Or any electromechanical project for that matter?

I couldn't imagine the level of wear and tear on a hub motor. Imaging driving through slushy snow and salt, or even dusty gritty dirt roads. Day/Night condensation cycles. Doesn't really matter what they claim, a motor like that is going to have the crap beaten out of it by the environment. Reliability nightmare.

So expect them to remove the turn signal and transmission stalks on the new Model Y too.

They must be reading this thread because the new Model Y has a turn signal stalk. They added it back to the car. I'm glad they dropped that "only buttons!" lunacy.

https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2485/tesla-officially-unveils-the-2025-model-y-new-turn-signal-stalk-front-camera-new-color-and-more

It's "precision engineered." Other features on the new model Y, a reflective rear headlight, it just reflects red light back on the car body. They also syled it somewhat like a Cybertruck.





Not sure how well you'll see reflected red light in daylight. I guess we will find out.

 

[The Ugly One]

Sadly, the average American wants a tall, fat ass pickup that can also compete in 0-60 competitions while hauling ass with his family and a trailer down an Interstate going 90mph with heated seats instead of a vehicle to go from point A to B and haul shit with high efficiency.

I want a big, comfy sedan with an enormous engine, but those are illegal. The EPA has ruled that it's bad for the environment to have a big motor unless it's in a truck. Then it's magically "green."

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Has anyone posted about the new up and coming EV/range extended EV from the company called Scout Motors? They're at CES and have generated a lot of buzz with their latest versions of their concepts called the Terra and Traveler, which are SUV and pickup respectively. What sets this aside from the Rivian is the optional gas extender that juices up the battery for ~150 miles on top of the ~350 miles from the battery. If priced accordingly, this might be a smash hit of a rig and something I'd seriously consider as a next car.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

I want a big, comfy sedan with an enormous engine, but those are illegal. The EPA has ruled that it's bad for the environment to have a big motor unless it's in a truck. Then it's magically "green."

I would too, but I am too poor. Thanks CAFE standards and inflation. I also need the cheap one to beat on for farm work.

 

[Michael McDoesntexist]

Batteries and BMSes aren't paired, because batteries are batteries. At most, you need to tell the BMS chemistry details and degradation characteristics, that's it.

Tell this to the cult of Apple and their need to serialize everything.

I would too, but I am too poor. Thanks CAFE standards and inflation. I also need the cheap one to beat on for farm work.

Check out auctions. I bought my SUV for $700 and fixed it up. I use it to tow cars and haul scrap metal a fair bit

They must be reading this thread because the new Model Y has a turn signal stalk. They added it back to the car. I'm glad they dropped that "only buttons!" lunacy.

There is so much wrong with Tesla design. And it's infecting the rest of the industry. The stalk should've been forced on them by the DOT if Pete Bootyjudge weren't too focused on having trains run in his office. Also they (and the rest of the industry need to drop the electric door handle shit and the lack of key holes outside. You should be able to open the exterior doors from the outside WITHOUT battery power. Same for the inside, using buttons and solenoids as a primary release mechanism should be unacceptable. Granted GM started this with the C6 Corvette 20 years ago and it was stupid then. There were cases like that one in Arizona where the fire department had to break in to get kids out of a Tesla due to the 12V battery not working.

And don't get me started on that goddamn abomination center screen. Why the fuck is the glove box controlled through a touch screen? Why the fuck is the HVAC controlled through a touch screen? The EU was right to do those studies on how digital controls require more attention and how it poses a safety risk. Personally I'd be even more restrictive, I'd cap the size and height allowed for screens and mandate even more physical controls, including for core HVAC functions. I'd also mandate physical parking brakes, something else that should be able to be actuated without battery power in an emergency.

Even more than that, serviceability should also be a legal requirement to anyone who truly cares about reducing waste. Same for parts availability. Teslas get totaled like crazy cause of how expensive and hard to get parts are because that nigger Elon Musk refuses to open parts production to 3rd parties like every other mainstream car maker. If I have a Honda Civic, I can buy replacement body panels from many suppliers. If I have a Nissan Leaf, I can do the same. What makes these polished turds so special that only heckin' wholesome chungus Tesla employees can work on them? It's not the high voltage, I've personally worked on HV systems on hybrids and a couple EVs. Plenty of DIYers like Rich Rebuilds and Aging Wheels have replaced EV battery packs in their home workshops and countless people have replaced the packs in Priuses (it's not even a 2 hour job if you're just dropping in a new battery pack, it's stupid simple to do). There are plenty of independent specialty shops that rebuild and install high voltage batteries for hybrids and EVs. The tools and knowledge are already there for anyone who wants it. Fuck these hypebeast greenwashing frauds and the mountains of e-waste they create with their anti-consumer and anti-ownership bullshit.

 

[Thiletonomics]

And don't get me started on that goddamn abomination center screen. Why the fuck is the glove box controlled through a touch screen? Why the fuck is the HVAC controlled through a touch screen? The EU was right to do those studies on how digital controls require more attention and how it poses a safety risk. Personally I'd be even more restrictive, I'd cap the size and height allowed for screens and mandate even more physical controls, including for core HVAC functions. I'd also mandate physical parking brakes, something else that should be able to be actuated without battery power in an emergency.

I'm surprised that the EU hasn't gone after Chinese EVs for their LARGE ASS screens too, given that ALL, or almost all of their cars have this exact same setup. But then again, consumers love them because their cheap, without them knowing that you get what you paid for.

Chrysler may have halted their EV SUV project again, after it was scrapped part way into 2023 and started again from scratch. It's yet another telling sign that Stellantis is going to implode soon.

 

[Meriasek]

This entire thing reeks of bullshit and scam, I'd say it's probably Theranos level of bullshit to the untrained eye. Slap the clear Apple fanboy bullshit coat they have on everything, and I'm 100% expecting this shit to go bankrupt within 2 years.

Definitely sounds scammy. None of the engineering issues fatty mentions are really an issue.
I do like that their motor delivers retarded amounts of power and torque, but only goes up to 140 km/h. Turns out all those 2:1 reduction gears on most electric cars have a reason to exist.
This bullshit isn't going anywhere, it's just some Suominiggers trying to make money.

Wooooooow precision engineered turn stalk!
Jesus fucking Christ I hate Tesla so much.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

I want a big, comfy sedan with an enormous engine, but those are illegal. The EPA has ruled that it's bad for the environment to have a big motor unless it's in a truck. Then it's magically "green."

Crown Vics with v8s and small Rangers with indestructible engines.

It was a better era.

 

[Sperg_rancher]

Electric cars are a complete and utter scam and the only people who buy into it are retards who don't believe in science.

those stupid anti-vaxxing tesla drivers! Believe the science!

 

[Thiletonomics]

Acura is bringing back the RSX name to use it on an EV coupe that looks like a Chinese bootleg Tesla Model Y copycat:



And employees of Nio's subbrand Onvo have made claims that Onvo forced their employees to buy their cars, and that they could get fired if they don't do so.

 

[Meriasek]

Crown Vics with v8s and small Rangers with indestructible engines.

It was a better era.

The best thing about Crown Vics is that they cost like 10 bucks!

 

[1994 Honda Civic]

Acura is bringing back the RSX name to use it on an EV coupe that looks like a Chinese bootleg Tesla Model Y copycat:

View attachment 6863875

I'm relieved that this isn't as big of a loss as it could've been. The RSX nameplate goes back to the 4th gen Integra, a genration of the car that wasn't great from its predecessor in everything but arguably the motor. And I thought the current gen Integra was pretty mediocre.

Of course, it doesn't take away the fact that it's now being utilized for an expensive vanity project of an EV SUV coupe. A type of vehicle with no concrete audience in mind other than those with more money to waste than brains. Kind of a shame but what else can you do when Ford used the Mustang name for the same thing as did Mitsubishi with the Eclipse for an HR-V sized SUV?

 

[DavidS877]

You don't hate car manufacturers enough.



And no, that's not what a cockpit is like. We still use physical switches, proper user interfaces, gauges, etc and not 37 layers of menus and idiot lights.

Ok, we're at 30,000 feet and the "Service engine soon" light comes on. So we pull out the manual. It says "Call the Boeing Help Line".

"Please hold, your call is very important to us."

"Hi, thanks for calling Boeing, it looks like your engine is 3% over spec for temperature, no no actual problem, by the way can I interest you in our extended warranty?"

Meanwhile we've done an emergency descent to 10,000 called ATC, declared an emergency and are heading for the closest airport.

 

[The Ugly One]

You don't hate car manufacturers enough.
View attachment 6865648

View attachment 6865649
And no, that's not what a cockpit is like. We still use physical switches, proper user interfaces, gauges, etc and not 37 layers of menus and idiot lights.

Ok, we're at 30,000 feet and the "Service engine soon" light comes on. So we pull out the manual. It says "Call the Boeing Help Line".

"Please hold, your call is very important to us."

"Hi, thanks for calling Boeing, it looks like your engine is 3% over spec for temperature, no no actual problem, by the way can I interest you in our extended warranty?"

Meanwhile we've done an emergency descent to 10,000 called ATC, declared an emergency and are heading for the closest airport.

I really want a new revenue stream for an automaker in my car. I don't pay enough fucking money for fucking bullshit already.

 

[Michael McDoesntexist]

Acura is bringing back the RSX name to use it on an EV coupe that looks like a Chinese bootleg Tesla Model Y copycat:

View attachment 6863875

And employees of Nio's subbrand Onvo have made claims that Onvo forced their employees to buy their cars, and that they could get fired if they don't do so.

I know people who work at a local Honda dealer. They have an EV they got under license from Chevy, the Prologue. I've been there and seen hordes of them unsold, only ones I really see are the dealer shuttles.

 

[Susanna]

I really want a new revenue stream for an automaker in my car. I don't pay enough fucking money for fucking bullshit already.

But just think of how good this will be for the insurance industry? ”Oh, we’re denying you coverage because your car telemetry says you were 2km/h over the speed limit”, ”you were looking to the right instead of to the left, where the moose came from”, ”you were loaning this car out to friends and family even though your insurance policy says only you are allowed to drive it” etc.

 

[The Ugly One]

But just think of how good this will be for the insurance industry? ”Oh, we’re denying you coverage because your car telemetry says you were 2km/h over the speed limit”, ”you were looking to the right instead of to the left, where the moose came from”, ”you were loaning this car out to friends and family even though your insurance policy says only you are allowed to drive it” etc.

As long as there's a probe to go up my ass to see if I was flatulent at the time.