The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Eris!]

For me

You don't get your own morality. There's just one. Any sentence that begins or ends with "for me" is a sentence I won't even bother to read.
No one gives a shit about your delusions, especially if you aren't even willing to assert them as actual facts.

I guess you think I am a murderer of myself for wanting to die in that case? Are people being murderers when they take people off life support?

Yes.

If I were dying I would want an enormous shot of morphine to go out in peace.

What you would want is not relevant to what is morally permissible.

A lot of these severely disabled children would never live to adulthood without modern medicine. They require feeding tubes, open heart surgery, tons of medications, round the clock care and so on. In the 1930s or something they would never live to 50 or 60 as they are today. Their suffering is being artificially prolonged.

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

These babies might be cute and inspiring when they are 3 years old and you can put pretty bows in their hair, but it seems like all the pro birth types aren't anywhere to be seen when they are 40 and the size of an adult but still can't move on their own. You can't make a good photo op out of that, I guess.

Ah yes, the "If you don't personally care for every human being for the entire duration of their life, seeing to all their wants and needs, then it is inconsistent for you to be against murder" argument rises its head again. It's just as stupid this time as it was the last dozen times someone tried it in this thread. I won't bother to rebut this again, just scroll up to see how retarded you are.

Also the parents will eventually die or get too old to care for them so the taxpayer has to take over. So in the end the government is going to take your money to pay for them whether you like it or not.

Is this supposed to make me want to murder them? It doesn't. I'd rather lose some money than be a murderer.
Obviously we should abolish welfare and solve both problems, but the existence of one doesn't justify the other. Welfare does not make me want to murder welfare recipients to save money.

If someone somehow held a gun to my head to make me give birth to some retard baby I would immediately give it up for adoption and try again for a normal child no matter how much people shamed me.

Openly admitting that you are unreasonable and immoral.
I have won this argument, as you concede my central point: that you are unreasonable and immoral.

I am not in this thread to have good-faith debate with baby murderers. I am in this thread to demonstrate that good-faith debate with baby murderers is not possible. You cannot reason with immoral, unreasonable people.
Feel free to prove this point wrong. All you'd have to do is provide a single actual argument. So far none of you have. Of course you can't, because no such argument exists. There is no rational argument to be made for murdering babies. This debate is 100% one-sided.

 

[Kiyoshi's Wristbrace]

You don't get your own morality. There's just one. Any sentence that begins or ends with "for me" is a sentence I won't even bother to read.
No one gives a shit about your delusions, especially if you aren't even willing to assert them as actual facts.

Yes.

What you would want is not relevant to what is morally permissible.

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Ah yes, the "If you don't personally care for every human being for the entire duration of their life, seeing to all their wants and needs, then it is inconsistent for you to be against murder" argument rises its head again. It's just as stupid this time as it was the last dozen times someone tried it in this thread. I won't bother to rebut this again, just scroll up to see how retarded you are.

Is this supposed to make me want to murder them? It doesn't. I'd rather lose some money than be a murderer.
Obviously we should abolish welfare and solve both problems, but the existence of one doesn't justify the other. Welfare does not make me want to murder welfare recipients to save money.

Openly admitting that you are unreasonable and immoral.
I have won this argument, as you concede my central point: that you are unreasonable and immoral.

I am not in this thread to have good-faith debate with baby murderers. I am in this thread to demonstrate that good-faith debate with baby murderers is not possible. You cannot reason with immoral, unreasonable people.

You know, I loathe the democrat baby-killing sentiment too, but she is giving completely rational answers for her reasoning. And I'm in agreement, the right thing perhaps isn't always the most kind thing.

I feel you're the other extreme of the opposite side. And both extremes are literal insanity. Black or white and never any middle; too bad life rarely works out where I get to choose one side or the other alone.

 

[Eris!]

but she is giving completely rational answers for her reasoning.

It's sad that you think that.

I feel you're the other extreme of the opposite side. And both extremes are literally insanity.

Having a moderate position on infanticide is insanity. Being extreme on this issue is the correct way to be.

Black or white and never any middle;

Correct.

too bad life rarely works out where I get to choose one side or the other alone.

It almost always does. And in this case it very obviously does.

 

[Kiyoshi's Wristbrace]

It's sad that you think that.

Having a moderate position on infanticide is insanity. Being extreme on this issue is the correct way to be.

Correct.

It almost always does. And in this case it very obviously does.

You deal only in absolutes. And you confuse opinions for facts.

In this world, you can never have everyone in agreement or everything; that is pure fallacy; the best you can do is compromise, empathize and learn why and then accept it when some people just refuse to budge.

Absolutists are the reason the world has degraded to the point it's at right now.

 

[Eris!]

In this world, you can never have everyone in agreement or everything;

I don't care if they agree. They are wrong.

the best you can do is compromise, empathize and learn why

I do not care why someone murders their baby. I have no empathy for someone who murders their baby. I see no reason to compromise on this issue, and see many reasons to never compromise on this issue.

Absolutists are the reason the world has degraded to the point it's at right now.

The exact opposite. People like you are the reason. People willing to compromise on the uncompromisable, and willing to permit the impermissible. People willing to pretend that facts are open questions. That is the fundamental problem with society, not absolutism on whether or not murdering babies is wrong (It factually is.)

 

[Rich Evans Apologist]

Now you've all had your fun with being in debate club and running up against that one awkward conservative girl in it whose autistic nature leads her to believe that annoying people to the point where they give up is the same as winning an argument. You know the one; everyone knows the one

And it's a case in point on why this topic is virtually impossible to discuss outside of people that you know personally and have personal rapport with. You're always going to attract those types, they always come in droves, and their energy for being annoying and contributing fuckall beyond "I am right and you are wrong" is endless. Indeed the fault here is the fault with everything: autism

and the best way to get rid of autism is abortion, thus it is morally the correct option 100% of the time|
this is my argument right here

 

[Eris!]

Now you've all had your fun with being in debate club and running up against that one awkward conservative girl in it whose autistic nature leads her to believe that annoying people to the point where they give up is the same as winning an argument. You know the one; everyone knows the one

And it's a case in point on why this topic is virtually impossible to discuss outside of people that you know personally and have personal rapport with. You're always going to attract those types, they always come in droves, and their energy for being annoying and contributing fuckall beyond "I am right and you are wrong" is endless. Indeed the fault here is the fault with everything: autism

and the best way to get rid of autism is abortion, thus it is morally the correct option 100% of the time

You're just mad that I'm right.
If you had arguments, you'd use them.

 

[Daughter of Cernunnos]

Nuance always results from ignorance. If you properly understand something it is always clear.
Abortion is murder. It is simply evil. It is pure black.

 

[D_Tractor]

There is no "pro choice" movement anymore. Abortion used to be a final solution for repentant sluts and rape victims, but now it's a celebrated rite of passage.

 

[Daughter of Cernunnos]

There is no "pro choice" movement anymore. Abortion used to be a final solution for repentant sluts and rape victims, but now it's a celebrated rite of passage.

Just because the media chooses to frame the stories in a different way doesn't mean people use abortion as birth control and that abortions have increased by percentage of the total population from the past. You have to provide evidence for claims like that. Linking to something about how "shout my abortion" is retarded is not evidence btw. The media has all sorts of agendas and selective news coverage. Supporting third wave intersectional feminists is currently one of them.

 

[Rich Evans Apologist]

Just because the media chooses to frame the stories in a different way doesn't mean people use abortion as birth control and that abortions have increased by percentage of the total population from the past. You have to provide evidence for claims like that. Linking to something about how "shout my abortion" is retarded is not evidence btw. The media has all sorts of agendas and selective news coverage. Supporting third wave intersectional feminists is currently one of them.

It kindof depends on your philosophy. There's a lens through which I would agree with them - a "movement" being more leaderless than not drifts towards stupid shit.

Anti-abortion has something easy going for it - the church. No matter how many loonies and nutters join up on their side and screech into the void, the church will always exist as an authority that (if only symbolically) dictates the rules. IE, the Church is there to say that people who shoot up abortion clinics are immoral and should not be venerated, are combating evil with evil, etc. etc.

By contrast, there's no real body or authority for the pro-abortion camp. It's a disparate and diverse, vague coalition of different groups with different ideas. First, second, third? What about economic considerations? Cases of rape or incest or nonviable fetuses? There's a loose consensus that emerges from this group, which is generally level-headed, but when you have someone like Lena Dunham crop up and brag about how she's a dumb retard, there's no authoritative body to turn to. Instead it's easy to find the fringe, batshit retards who vehemently agree.

So by this logic, if you look at other "movements" like OWS or BLM (which are much younger, sure, but more poignant) - the lack of real leadership there leads them to drift into stupidity. What should be "corporations wield too much unchecked power and government is highly prone to corruption" and "black people are still treated differently purely on the basis of race in a way that is archaic and harmful" -- positions that are fairly middle-of-the-line, maybe something one might disagree with here and there -- have instead become COMMUNISM IS THE ANSWER and WE WUZ KANGZ because nothing was there to shut out the nutters.

In that lens and regard, one can argue that there's no such "pro-choice" movement anymore because people have begun to take it for granted, lost the original arguments that were made in its favor, and allowed a bunch of crazy retards to squat on the property without calling security.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Just because the media chooses to frame the stories in a different way doesn't mean people use abortion as birth control and that abortions have increased by percentage of the total population from the past. You have to provide evidence for claims like that. Linking to something about how "shout my abortion" is retarded is not evidence btw. The media has all sorts of agendas and selective news coverage. Supporting third wave intersectional feminists is currently one of them.

Considering how invasive abortions are, there's no sane woman who would use it as a form of birth control.

For me it's immoral to let people be born vegetables and linger for fifty years in a bed in some understaffed, underfunded facility until they suffer from bedsores and die of MRSA. That is cruelty. If I were to become a vegetable tomorrow I would want to be killed. I guess you think I am a murderer of myself for wanting to die in that case? Are people being murderers when they take people off life support?

If I were dying I would want an enormous shot of morphine to go out in peace.

A lot of these severely disabled children would never live to adulthood without modern medicine. They require feeding tubes, open heart surgery, tons of medications, round the clock care and so on. In the 1930s or something they would never live to 50 or 60 as they are today. Their suffering is being artificially prolonged.

These babies might be cute and inspiring when they are 3 years old and you can put pretty bows in their hair, but it seems like all the pro birth types aren't anywhere to be seen when they are 40 and the size of an adult but still can't move on their own. You can't make a good photo op out of that, I guess.

Also the parents will eventually die or get too old to care for them so the taxpayer has to take over. So in the end the government is going to take your money to pay for them whether you like it or not.

If someone somehow held a gun to my head to make me give birth to some retard baby I would immediately give it up for adoption and try again for a normal child no matter how much people shamed me.

That's what gets me. These same pro-life people want to cut social welfare programs. They're pro-life until it comes time to taking care of the baby that was born.

I'd even say it's more cruel to let a severely disabled baby be born than aborting it. Making someone be born, when you know their life will be suffering, is pretty damn cruel.

 

[Eris!]

there's no sane woman who would use it as a form of birth control.

But many insane or short-sighted ones who would.

That's what gets me. These same pro-life people want to cut social welfare programs. They're pro-life until it comes time to taking care of the baby that was born.

Maybe if you read and listened to the multiple explanations of this which have been posted in this very thread, it wouldn't confuse you so much.

 

[D_Tractor]

Considering how invasive abortions are, there's no sane woman who would use it as a form of birth control.



That's what gets me. These same pro-life people want to cut social welfare programs. They're pro-life until it comes time to taking care of the baby that was born.

I'd even say it's more cruel to let a severely disabled baby be born than aborting it. Making someone be born, when you know their life will be suffering, is pretty damn cruel.

That talking point may have been true 30 years ago. Not anymore. Not even Der Fuhrer Drumpff has tried to cut welfare to wamen and their bastard children.

 

[knobslobbin]

Is there an alt-right was of saying I'm prolife but for white babies only yet? I don't want to be confused for a cuckservative.

 

[Parallel Moon]

Considering how invasive abortions are, there's no sane woman who would use it as a form of birth control.



That's what gets me. These same pro-life people want to cut social welfare programs. They're pro-life until it comes time to taking care of the baby that was born.

I'd even say it's more cruel to let a severely disabled baby be born than aborting it. Making someone be born, when you know their life will be suffering, is pretty damn cruel.

It is hilarious to me that they also want to get rid of welfare. All of these severely disabled people they want to be born wouldn't make it in their anarcho-capitalist paradise. You can bleat on and on forever about "personal responsibility" but the vast majority of human kind doesn't have the money it takes to keep these children alive by artificial means let alone all the brain dead people on life support, ect. Even Bezos would hit a hard limit on how much he was willing to shell out for this cause.

It is only "unreasonable and immoral" if you think that death is the worst thing that can happen to a person. Death is merciful in many cases. There are fates so much worse than just being dead. I have seen these scenarios up close. I would not wish those horrors upon my worst enemy.

A baby that never develops lungs will be born and know nothing other than suffering on a level that is unimaginable to anyone reading this for however long a being can survive in the air without lungs. Giving that baby an injection to stop its heart before birth so it never has to experience that is *kindness.*

It is mercy.

Unless you are some religious nut who believes that humans aren't allowed to give each other mercy then I fail so see how abortion is the immoral choice in a case such as that. And last time I checked we don't live in a religious theocracy in America anyhow so are under no obligation to follow these beliefs.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

A baby that never develops lungs will be born and know nothing other than suffering on a level that is unimaginable to anyone reading this for however long a being can survive in the air without lungs. Giving that baby an injection to stop its heart before birth so it never has to experience that is *kindness.*

It is mercy.

Brilliant! We can definitely improve this idea though. Just round up all those with lives not worth living, and remove them from society in some quick, painless, cost-effective way. I'm thinking we could concentrate them in camps, then euthanize them through some efficient method... gas, maybe?... then dispose of the bodies in some hygenic way, like maybe incineration.

...why are you looking at me like that?

 

[Eris!]

All of these severely disabled people they want to be born wouldn't make it in their anarcho-capitalist paradise.

I don't care if they make it, I care if they're murdered.

You can bleat on and on forever about "personal responsibility" but the vast majority of human kind doesn't have the money it takes to keep these children alive by artificial means let alone all the brain dead people on life support, ect.

And? Dying because you failed is bad. Dying because you were murdered is wrong. They're different.

It is only "unreasonable and immoral" if you think that death is the worst thing that can happen to a person.

It's not about what is good or bad for a person, which is why all your comments about their quality of life are irrelevant. It's about murder being morally impermissible.

A baby that never develops lungs will be born and know nothing other than suffering on a level that is unimaginable to anyone reading this for however long a being can survive in the air without lungs. Giving that baby an injection to stop its heart before birth so it never has to experience that is *kindness.*

It is mercy.

It's also murder, which makes absolutely everything else irrelevant.

Unless you are some religious nut who believes that humans aren't allowed to give each other mercy

Thinking humans are not allowed to murder each other is not being a "religious nut," you fedora tipper.
You people are excellent evidence that it is not possible to be moral and atheist. You're all nihilists who will unironically argue that murder isn't wrong and act like you're the sane ones.

Brilliant! We can definitely improve this idea though. Just round up all those with lives not worth living, and remove them from society in some quick, painless, cost-effective way. I'm thinking we could concentrate them in camps, then euthanize them through some efficient method... gas, maybe?... then dispose of the bodies in some hygenic way, like maybe incineration.

...why are you looking at me like that?

Any "Pro-choice" argument when examined closely reveals a fundamental hatred of life itself and a distaste for burdening people with it.

 

[Parallel Moon]

It's not about what is good or bad for a person, which is why all your comments about their quality of life are irrelevant. It's about murder being morally impermissible.

Well, too bad you aren't the ultimate authority on what is morally permissible.

I mean, yeah it can be your opinion that stuff like this is immoral, but that doesn't mean I am under any obligation to follow it. Just like I'm sure that there are some Muslims out there that think I'm an evil whore for leaving the house without a male chaperone and a burka, but I'm under no requirements to give a shit.

 

[Eris!]

I mean, yeah it can be your opinion that stuff like this is immoral, but that doesn't mean I am under any obligation to follow it.

If It's my opinion that it is immoral why on earth would I not obligate you not to do it?
Non-fundamentalism is silly. Liberals are silly.
Abortion is murder. If you do it you should be hanged from a tree or burned alive for being evil and soulless. I don't see any reason why we as a society should welcome open debate on this issue. I don't see any nuance or wiggle room on murdering babies in the womb. I don't see any detail or consequence or circumstance as more important than the fact that you're murdering babies in the womb. I see nothing that can surpass that evil and make it "necessary," in theory or in practice.