The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

You want to eliminate abortions, right? Why not make men get vasectomies at birth? That'd virtually eliminate them. Oh, right, you don't want that because then it'd be removing your body autonomy and not those harlots who have sex with men who aren't you
You want to eliminate abortion elimination, right? Why not encourage both men and women to treat sex more seriously? That'd virtually eliminate the murder of unborn children. Oh, right, you don't want that because it'd require women to take responsibility and force men to be responsible as well. Also your mother.
 
You want to eliminate abortion elimination, right? Why not encourage both men and women to treat sex more seriously? That'd virtually eliminate the murder of unborn children. Oh, right, you don't want that because it'd require women to take responsibility and force men to be responsible as well. Also your mother.
So you are tardraging when I suggest we remove your body autonomy, but you're fine with removing women's body autonomy. Typical A&H right-wing retard

Oh wow. You actually are retarded lol you're literally screeching the same thing to anyone who disagrees with you, like copy and paste 🤣
Baw harder that I pointed out your hypocrisy. You just want to force women to have babies because they're fucking guys who aren't your spaz ass
 
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So you are tardraging when I suggest we remove your body autonomy, but you're fine with removing women's body autonomy. Typical A&H right-wing retard


Baw harder that I pointed out your hypocrisy. You just want to force women to have babies because they're fucking guys who aren't your spaz ass
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How about sterilize both sexes at birth as a compromise? No? You want to eliminate abortion, right?
 
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So you are tardraging when I suggest we remove your body autonomy, but you're fine with removing women's body autonomy. Typical A&H right-wing retard
When did I personally said we shouldn't castrate the rapists?
Here's a question while I'm ahead though.
Let's say one of your autonomous, wonderful, baby killing libertine woman accuses some dude, one of many she slept with, of rape. Let's say he didn't call her the day after and she was insulted. The dude gets circumcised to the max, 10 years pass, the bitch, after being mentally debilitated from a 100 abortions grows a conscience and admits she was full of shit. My question is how much cheese do you put on your sandwich?
 
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You're conveniently ignoring that you're imposing actual, unjustified punishment on males (including homosexuals, which you're extra ignoring lmao) who have done nothing to deserve it, whereas you're conflating punishment with personal responsibility for women.

Furthermore, we're talking about ending human life which already exists, not preventing it from existing (we can already do that by enforcing personal responsibility and "safe" sex, we don't need mass sterilization). It's wrong to end an innocent human life which has been--for the millionth time--purposefully and willingly conceived.

And, you won't acknowledge that vasectomies are often irreversible anyway. All because you won't hold women accountable for their actions, to ensure they, their partner, or preferably both of them, have taken the appropriate, responsible precautions to avoid pregnancy.

Eat shit, dude. Your ego and agenda are out of control. You absolutely refuse to budge on anything, or fully engage with what is being presented. Why are you even here? Either troll (poorly) like @Freya and just call everyone incels, or actually take the discussion seriously, make up your mind.
Cry more
 
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How about sterilize both sexes at birth as a compromise? No? You want to eliminate abortion, right?
I am not the one who is tardraging about how abortion is murder. You're the one who wants to eliminate it. I am just saying that making men get vasectomies would be a much more efficient way. However, that would mean men would lose their body autonomy and your spaztic brain can't handle that. You just want to punish women who have sex like a good little evangelical. Your diseased brain can't handle that I pointed out a huge flaw in your argument and now you are short circuiting. It's pretty hilarious, Feetloaf
 
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I am not the one who is tardraging about how abortion is murder. You're the one who wants to eliminate it. I am just saying that making men get vasectomies would be a much more efficient way. However, that would mean men would lose their body autonomy and your spaztic brain can't handle that. You just want to punish women who have sex like a good little evangelical. Your diseased brain can't handle that I pointed out a huge flaw in your argument and now you are short circuiting. It's pretty hilarious, Feetloaf
You're projecting so hard lmao, you couldn't even address the issues brought up.

Still waiting for you to explain how it's fair to gay people to perform a surgery on them too, let alone the matter of babies not being responsible for anything unlike the whores you're simping for.

I hope you realize feminists aren't going to fuck you just because you're shilling for Planned Parenthood, faggot.
 
Except the two rights can't be assessed independently from one another, because one is in direct conflict with the other.
If you put them in conflict with each other, then yes, you're correct. But I can view a case where "bodily autonomy" is in conflict with "the state needs more bodies to throw into the jungle to kill Charlie" and get a sense of what the state thinks about the former and the latter independently. Hypothetically, if the law actually precludes either principle, then there's no need for juxtaposition to begin with, either-- alternatively, you can view it as a juxtaposition between said principle and literally anything else.

The law ultimately has to take a side
Except that it doesn't have to, given Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Or are you discussing "oughts", this time?

My point to you is that if a person cannot be legally compelled to use their body to support another against their will in the case of organ/blood donation or parabiosis, then it logically follows that a person should not be legally compelled to use their body to support a fetus against their will. Thus far, you have neither provided a sound refutation to this point, nor have you provided an argument to support the notion that a fetus possesses extra rights which could usurp the precedent I have outlined.
I've cited case law literally involving the question of abortion and abortion restrictions, even as I maintain that a conflict between specifically "right to life" and "bodily autonomy" is ultimately unnecessary to assess the consistency in upholding either. These examples are much more relevant than case law about organ donation, especially since pregnancy isn't substantially similar to organ donation as a concept, is occasioned by different processes that confer different levels of accountability, and involves different kinds of agents. Also human parabiosis has never been done, and Judith Butler is a hack and a hag.

The purpose of pointing out that bodily autonomy is readily selectively violated in various circumstances, as "facile" as you may see such point, is to point out that there's no special value in appealing to a principle that can be arguably arbitrarily violated as it is in other cases-- whether or not the violation is to protect the bodily autonomy of others.

Merely citing glaring inconsistencies in the corpus of law you chose to cite as a primary justification for your position is sufficient for my case. It may have not been sufficient to point out that a perp's bodily autonomy is violated when he commits a violent crime and is subsequently arrested for it, but it certainly is sufficient to point out that you can be conscripted with close to zero ways of fighting against it and you can be arrested for possessing and ingesting certain substances even though the only bodily autonomy at hand (immediately, at the least) is yours and there isn't any clear conflict of principles beyond "we need to kill Charlie" or "we don't like that drug".

Ultimately, that's part of a greater issue I take in you appealing to the law, and it drives at what I meant when I said that your argument was just (one of) Muh Vagina's writ large: precedents can be established that, more than trying to "balance" the two principles pitted in conflict with each other, explicitly enshrine either principle over the other. The Constitution can be altered in order to explicitly do the same. There is no value making your case wholly from malleable and selectively enforcable law (and certainly not with someone who's been arguing morality).

Simply pointing out that certain rights are inconsistently upheld is a facile observation, and it's not a refutation of my argument, but a confirmation of it: my entire argument to you has been that restrictions upon abortion are inconsistent with the general precedent which has been established in cases where these two rights have come into conflict
You continue to misidentify what said precedents actually are. You keep citing a case involving organ donation when we already have cases on the specific question of abortion and its associated restrictions.

And which precedents would those be? Because so far you have cited none which don't apply specifically to abortion, which entirely defeats the point: if the contention of the person you're arguing against is that a particular law is unjust, you can't just cite that law to support your case.
At that point, you're only selectively choosing cases in support of your position, even when said verdicts don't overturn anything else that I've cited.

The purpose of these verdicts is to establish precedent; I don't need to cite examples that don't specifically apply to the question of bodily autonomy re: abortion and abortion restrictions if there's examples that directly address the question of those very matters. You cited a case about organ donation in a discussion about abortion-- this may have been valuable in a world where the SCOTUS never answered the question of whether abortion restrictions are constitutional, but they did, however nonsensically. Given that, not only is there there's no value at all in trying to infer a conclusion from a case about organ donation (which is, again, a multifariously distinct concept from pregnancy), there's no way you can dismiss those verdicts when you're making a case from law to begin with.

You can argue that the law is unjust and needs to be revised, but then drop the appeal to law you started with, because it's inconsistent.
 
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What the fuck are you talking about? Shooting niggers in the streets who even look like they may be criminals someday is a more reasonable solution that abortion. You're literally advocating for death by possibility to commit crime here, retard.
And it doesn't matter how many people you have, crime is a thing because of poverty, laziness to work and a degenerate culture. You can wipe out half of your country's poor population and then you would honestly think the government or corporations will become benevolent utopian socialists and improve the lot of everyone that's left? When the rest of the population will still be lazy well fare monkeys as before?
You fucking dumbass.
>"I want to solve poverty, laziness, and degenerate culture!"
>Okay! How are we going to do that?
>"Well first off, we need to ban those pesky abortions"

I can't believe this shit. The stats show these babies are more than likely just going to become criminals. If you refuse to even acknowledge it then you're beyond saving. Also, for what is probably the millionth time, a fetus IS NOT ALIVE

Not to hop back into this, but isn't there a disproportionate amount of black abortion? And we all know about blacks and crime statistics. Couldn't that account for a significant amount of the decrease in crime?
Yes. It's amazing how you guys will whine about blacks only to turn around and try to ban the one thing that's keeping them in their ghetto
 
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>"I want to solve poverty, laziness, and degenerate culture!"
>Okay! How are we going to do that?
>"Well first off, we need to ban those pesky abortions"

I can't believe this shit. The stats show these babies are more than likely just going to become criminals. If you refuse to even acknowledge it then you're beyond saving. Also, for what is probably the millionth time, a fetus IS NOT ALIVE
>"I want to solve poverty, laziness, and degenerate culture!"
>Okay! How are we going to do that?
>"Kill unborn children."

I can't believe this shit. The stats show these babies may become criminals, better kill them all. It's a good thing fetuses don't eat, grow, feel, have a heart beat and ARE A LITERAL FUCKING HUMAN BEING.

Now when I think about though, maybe this is how we can defeat the wuang gong fever. We just kill every human alove. What will the virus do then?
 
>"I want to solve poverty, laziness, and degenerate culture!"
>Okay! How are we going to do that?
>"Kill unborn children."

I can't believe this shit. The stats show these babies may become criminals, better kill them all. It's a good thing fetuses don't eat, grow, feel, have a heart beat and ARE A LITERAL FUCKING HUMAN BEING.

Now when I think about though, maybe this is how we can defeat the wuang gong fever. We just kill every human alove. What will the virus do then?
Your name is very fitting. No, a fetus isn't alive. It's not conscious it doesn't even know about it's existence. They were never alive in the first place so you can't use the "sleep" or "coma" excuse your side loves to peddle. I assure you, it won't care

I'll enjoy watching Texas spiral into an even bigger ghetto shithole these next coming decades. Grab the popcorn and get comfy
 
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Your name is very fitting. No, a fetus isn't alive. It's not conscious it doesn't even know about it's existence. They were never alive in the first place so you can't use the "sleep" or "coma" excuse your side loves to peddle. I assure you, it won't care

I'll enjoy watching Texas spiral into an even bigger ghetto shithole these next coming decades. Grab the popcorn and get comfy
Get a load of this guy and his semantic games.
>my definition is the only legit one because I say so and you can't refute it because I won't allow you
>I don't really care
>Texas bad, surely it will burn, while no doubt Cali will thrive
Whatever, retard. You made your case and made us laugh at the same time.
 
You're projecting so hard lmao, you couldn't even address the issues brought up.

Still waiting for you to explain how it's fair to gay people to perform a surgery on them too, let alone the matter of babies not being responsible for anything unlike the whores you're simping for.
Well it's not fair to remove women's body autonomy, too, but you're fine with that.

You want to stop abortions, right? Well, I just told you the best way to do it but you won't do that because it removes men's body autonomy. You're fine removing women's body autonomy, though, because you're just another hypocritical evangelical retard.
I hope you realize feminists aren't going to fuck you just because you're shilling for Planned Parenthood, faggot.
Lol I don't really give a shit. I am in a monogamous relationship. Unlike you, women don't find me repulsive
 
So what you're telling me is you can get literal video and audio evidence right up in your vagina face, but you still won't believe it, because they just have to be a lie.
All of you retards think that these so-called "late term abortion on demand" laws mean that any woman who is nine months pregnant can terminate, when the law applies to women who can no longer carry to term.

And give me one reason why I should trust some Trumptard who voiced a fucking character on Arthur about anything, let alone abortion.
 
All of you retards think that these so-called "late term abortion on demand" laws mean that any woman who is nine months pregnant can terminate, when the law applies to women who can no longer carry to term.

And give me one reason why I should trust some Trumptard who voiced a fucking character on Arthur about anything, let alone abortion.
Why should I trust a baby murdering faggot calling himself a vagina who refuses to believe evidence smacked right in his faggot face?
Go fuck yourself and take the eugenic boy with you.
 
Why should I trust a baby murdering faggot calling himself a vagina who refuses to believe evidence smacked right in his faggot face?
Go fuck yourself and take the eugenic boy with you.
I am not a baby murderer, male, or faggot. And I have been posting countless links to studies that prove my points, but you pro-life autists screech and cover your eyes because you're terrified of science.

Show me definitive proof that Crowder didn't stage his video.
 
I am not a baby murderer, male, or faggot. And I have been posting countless links to studies that prove my points, but you pro-life autists screech and cover your eyes because you're terrified of science.
Yeah? I don't believe your studies.
Give me one reason why I should trust some baby killing vagina motherfucker who talks a lot of shit, but can't filter out his own studies to defend his retarded point about baby murder.
Show me definitive proof that Crowder didn't stage his video.
lol
 
Hmm, for some reason it's not letting me quote your post @Zero Day Defense
cant quote post.JPG

No matter, I'll respond anyway:
Zero Day Defense said: If you put them in conflict with each other, then yes, you're correct. But I can view a case where "bodily autonomy" is in conflict with "the state needs more bodies to throw into the jungle to kill Charlie" and get a sense of what the state thinks about the former and the latter independently. Hypothetically, if the law actually precludes either principle, then there's no need for juxtaposition to begin with, either-- alternatively, you can view it as a juxtaposition between said principle and literally anything else.
It's nice to see you finally concede that my position is correct; it's just a shame that it's taken way longer than it needed to. The rest of your point here is irrelevant waffle which undermines the rectitude of your position. If your response to the existence of legal injustice is to simply accept it and then use it's existence as an argument against reform, then I see no reason to take your argument seriously.
Zero Day Defense said: Except that it doesn't have to, given Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Or are you discussing "oughts", this time?
The central precedent which was set in Casey was one of fetal viability, to which my response would be that if a fetus can exist independently outside of the womb, then surely induced birth should be the preferable option in such cases? If a fetus can survive outside the womb, then by all means remove it and try your best to preserve it's life; if it cannot survive outside the womb, then it is not viable, in which case the precedent established in Casey logically does not apply.
Zero Day Defense said: I've cited case law literally involving the question of abortion and abortion restrictions, even as I maintain that a conflict between specifically "right to life" and "bodily autonomy" is ultimately unnecessary to assess the consistency in upholding either. These examples are much more relevant than case law about organ donation, especially since pregnancy isn't substantially similar to organ donation as a concept, is occasioned by different processes that confer different levels of accountability, and involves different kinds of agents. Also human parabiosis has never been done, and Judith Butler is a hack and a hag.
I cited case law concerning organ donation to illustrate to you a bigger picture which you seem desperate to ignore. Again, if my contention is that legal restrictions against abortion are at odds with a broader precedent, you can't just cite those laws as a refutation.

As much as you may try to assert that the conflict of rights I've pointed out to you is "ultimately unnecessary" to how the law should be decided, I have thus far yet to see anyone mount an argument against abortion which does not rest upon the assumption that a fetus has a right to life.
Zero Day Defense said: The purpose of pointing out that bodily autonomy is readily selectively violated in various circumstances, as "facile" as you may see such point, is to point out that there's no special value in appealing to a principle that can be arguably arbitrarily violated as it is in other cases-- whether or not the violation is to protect the bodily autonomy of others.
Except the whole point is that law shouldn't be arbitrary. In a free and just society, it has long been established that laws imposed upon individuals should A) be fair and consistent, and B) have a rational basis. The only cases where law should be arbitrary is when it's arbitrariness is an unavoidable feature of the law, such as the laws we have which regulate which side of the road we drive on, for example, or the color that certain wires have to be in the case of building codes.
Zero Day Defense said: You can argue that the law is unjust and needs to be revised, but then drop the appeal to law you started with, because it's inconsistent.
I'm not appealing to the law as it is, but to what the law ought to be based upon the precedents which have been set concerning the balance of individual rights we've been talking about. I have already conceded to you that the law is imperfectly applied in practice; the difference is that I'm not willing to accept that for the sake of political expediency. I value justice, and I want the law to be consistent and rational.
 
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