The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Xenomorph]

When will we have the first fetus to get a tugboat in the womb?

 

[CivilianOfTheFandomWars]

When will we have the first fetus to get a tugboat in the womb?

We’ve already been talking about blacks.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

are you really this stupid?
yes, let's go by specific days. i was born on my birthday, not the day before nor the day after. when my or your date of birth comes up, whatever agency needs it doesn't give a damn about the day you were conceived nor the day before you were born. all that matters is the day you were born.

So if society decided to count from the point of conception you'd change your mind? Society also lets men identify as women, it doesn't dictate reality.

it isn't a human being until it develops consciousness

What species is it until then?

what if what if what if.

nobody cares about your unrealistic hypotheticals.

Great answer, deep and thought provoking. You've swayed me.

physician assisted suicide is okay if the patient consents to it. fetuses can't consent nor are they capable of consenting.

That's a tough call, assisted suicide is definitely not always okay. Maybe if someone is in agony and medical treatment is inadequate.

"Drunk, passed out women can't consent nor are they capable of consenting."

Can we kill drunk chicks?

uh no? your brain doesn't stop developing until you're about 25 years old. and all the cells in my heart, limbs and most of my immune system are different than the cells that they consisted of 10 years ago.

So you support abortion up until age 25? I'm talking inherent value, the worth of human life, not just biology.

this is just blatantly false and stupid.

Incorrect.

no, we told you a million times that it's about consciousness and the ability to feel pain.

Congenital insensitivity to pain and anhydrosis (CIPA) is a disease which causes people to be unable to feel pain, can we kill them in their sleep?

1) Inability to "feel pain"
2) Not conscious

Let me guess, gotta bolster that a bit and add some more arbitrary criteria.

no. you are fanatics.

Then I should be arguing from religion, citing scriptures, strange that I'm not.

okay yallqaeda

Lol you're childish.

lol

It's true

yes it fucking does. a weird gooey period blood clot resembling fetus is NOT the same as an infant that doesn’t need to be in the womb to survive.

"a weird shriveled bald blob of cells is NOT the same as a toddler that doesn't need to be breastfed to survive"

"a babbling stupid toddler is NOT the same an an actual pre-school-aged child that doesn't need constant 24/7 care to survive"

"a..."

you’re splitting hairs here.

This is important, we need to be absolutely precise. If you're wrong then you support killing innocent people, if I'm wrong "lmfao floosh teh bloodcloot gummibaers" and it's no big deal.

i’ve already said it’s irresponsible to have an abortion that late into a pregnancy.

How late? You said 3 months is fine, is 3 months and 1 day the cutoff? Yeah, back to splitting hairs, but if you can't answer hard questions then you shouldn't be so sure of your position.

obv viability isn’t set in stone and varies (just like women’s reasons for having abortions!).

Lol no, the vast majority of abortions aren't from outlier cases like rape and incest, abortion is almost never strictly necessary so their reasons mostly vary very little and only in frivolous ways.

you’re so autistic for using this extremely specific scenario to try to disprove my point

You're a dipshit for trying to justify infanticide predicated upon ambiguous conclusions.

"Durr, right around uhhhhhh, here i guess is where they magically become human, dont kill them after that. no wait, here, yeah thats better, probably.
"

since you love being literal, there is a difference. my body is not made of the same cells and blood it was 10 years ago, your body completely regenerates itself multiple times throughout your life. you’re retarded if you think you’re the same person now as you were when you were 4 years old

You're all autistic lmao

a non viable fetus is not a human

Another "they are cats until around X weeks where they magically become Humans(tm)" believer, huh? And you guys say you're not religious lol

@SSj_Ness it won't let me quote, but jesus christ you're autistic as fuck, Erischan. I ain't reading all that autistic babbling.

Thank God (relax, don't flip another table), that means I don't have to read nor respond to your retarded shit for a while, faggot.

Well, the fundamental disagreement is that the prolife side believes the fetus isn’t the woman’s body, at least past a certain point, while the choice side believes it is the woman’s body.

Their religious belief that the separate organism in their womb (their offspring) is actually part of the woman's own body is factually untrue, so who cares what they believe since it is scientifically untrue?

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

When will we have the first fetus to get a tugboat in the womb?

Considering how retarded A&Hers are, if they ever managed to have sex (lol) and get a woman pregnant, the fetus would likely be eligible.

@SSj_Ness aww you won't admit you are a member of a fundamentalist church then. Lol dodging the question because you know it's a sin to deny your faith. Like I said, you're obviously a religious zealot. Maybe you should move to Afghanistan where they live like it is 1700. you'd like it there, women there even have no rights. It's right up your alley

 

[snailslime]

@SSj_Ness try writing a coherent wall of text i can reply to, sperg.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

@SSj_Ness aww you won't admit you are a member of a fundamentalist church then. Lol dodging the question because you know it's a sin to deny your faith. Like I said, you're obviously a religious zealot. Maybe you should move to Afghanistan where they live like it is 1700. you'd like it there, women there even have no rights. It's right up your alley

That didn't take long, now I have to read more retarded shit already. You're just trolling, come back when you can rationalize your position and present an argument which can withstand scrutiny.

If you just want to dunk on me for being Christian, go ahead, but damn, you are legit obsessed with Christianity for somebody who doesn't believe in it. It's totally off topic, you bring up your Christianophobia everywhere you post and make everything about that.

I think if you could have one wish granted it wouldn't be to secure women's "rights", it'd be to kill every Christian. Your hatred seeps through the screen, it's amazing. I wonder what your story is lmao

 

[Netizennameless]

Why do you think "ghetto" culture exists in the first place? When children are born to people without the resources to take care of them, they're way more likely to commit crimes as adults. Poor sex ed and lack of access to family planning tools are what perpetuate the cycle of kids born without fathers or to teenage mothers.

One of the most common reasons women cite for having abortions is the need to care for children they already have. It's kind of bizarre to me that a lot of the same people who complain about welfare queens are the ones that encourage women to have more children than they have the means to care for. If you force women to have these kids they can't afford, guess who's gonna end up subsidizing their needs? Taxpayers.

This is one way in which opposition to abortion does not jibe with fiscal conservatism. Children cost the state money, especially at-risk, impoverished, disabled, and orphaned ones. The need for the foster system, welfare, public schools, and food stamps increases dramatically when more unplanned children are born. This is to say nothing of the increased risk of criminality children born to teenage mothers of in poverty exhibit; taxpayers also subsidize public defenders, the court system, juvenile hall, and the prison system. Long story short, lack of access to abortion translates to a greater need for large government, so it doesn't make sense to oppose abortion and support small government.

The fiscal conservatives will just put a cap on the number of children welfare pays for.

The actual question at the heart of this discussion is not whether a fetus is a person, it's whether it's better to be born into a life of suffering or not at all.

That's not the question at all. We don't kill homeless people just because they're mentally ill beyond repair, permanent fried drug addicts, suffer through horrible weather and are constantly subject to violence, robbery and rape. Euthanasia is a crime in the US.

If a fetus is a person, intentionally terminating a pregnancy (abortion) is murder. If a fetus is not a person, abortion is up for debate.

There's no objective answer to that-- it's philosophical. However, the issue of public finance lends it more objectivity. When you factor in the suffering these unwanted children create for others, the question is now, "is it better to be born into a life that creates suffering, or not at all?" My answer to that would obviously be the latter.

I think the better question is does anyone have the right to determine whether or not a child's life is worth living? I don't believe so.

This is a great example of the philosophical thing I touched on. There is no objective answer to when a zygote becomes a "person." The more relevant question here is what the entity arbitrating this issue (in this case the U.S. government) defines as a person. The answer to that one is pretty easy-- the government doesn't give you a social security number or any official documentation of your existence until you're born.

But if you shoot a pregnant woman you will probably be charged with two murders. Is it a life or not?

It's worth mentioning as well that under no other circumstance is a person required to donate their body for the sake of saving another person's. You're not required to be an organ donor or join the military,

Unless you're male, then you have to sign up for selective service and can be drafted.

even though it's noble to sacrifice your life for others. Women are the only exception to that. If abortion was outlawed, we would be required by law to give our blood, our own safety, and potentially our lives to protect another's. That's not logically consistent with the other laws dictating bodily autonomy in our country.

Not true. Prisons severely restrict bodily autonomy. Being legally locked in a mental institution severely restricts bodily autonomy. We have laws restricting what substances you can put in your body. It's illegal to have sex with certain people (like children or vegetables). Euthanasia is illegal. In many places you have a duty to retreat before you can legally defend yourself.

With that said, abortion is a complicated issue. At what point life begins is an issue that needs to be defined. I feel both sides of the political aisle refuse to do that because they want this wedge issue around.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

That didn't take long, now I have to read more retarded shit already. You're just trolling, come back when you can rationalize your position and present an argument which can withstand scrutiny.

If you just want to dunk on me for being Christian, go ahead, but damn, you are legit obsessed with Christianity for somebody who doesn't believe in it. It's totally off topic, you bring up your Christianophobia everywhere you post and make everything about that.

I think if you could have one wish granted it wouldn't be to secure women's "rights", it'd be to kill every Christian. Your hatred seeps through the screen, it's amazing. I wonder what your story is lmao

Lol, see, I was right about you being a religious fundamentalist. You tried to deny it but you also deny being Erischan. You're a terrible liar, Erischan.

Stop trying to push your religious bullshit on the rest of us, fundie

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Lol, see, I was right about you being a religious fundamentalist. You tried to deny it but you also deny being Erischan. You're a terrible liar, Erischan.

Stop trying to push your religious bullshit on the rest of us, fundie

Being a Christian doesn't automatically make you a "zealot", but nothing will get through that thick skull of yours, so have at it.

 

[Lurker]

Being a Christian doesn't automatically make you a "zealot", but nothing will get through that thick skull of yours, so have at it.

yeah but you actually are a zealot though

edit: hi erischan!

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Being a Christian doesn't automatically make you a "zealot", but nothing will get through that thick skull of yours, so have at it.

Well, you're trying to push your religious bullshit on yes, so yes, it does make you a zealot. Maybe you are moderate compared to the other people that go to your fundie church, but you're still a zealot, Erischan

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Well, you're trying to push your religious bullshit on yes, so yes, it does make you a zealot.

Quote me doing so, then.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Quote me doing so, then.

Well, you are wanting to force women to lose their bodily autonomy. You pushing your pro-life, typical evangelical right-wing bullshit is indeed pushing your religion on us

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Well, you are wanting to force women to lose their bodily autonomy.

Mischaracterization aside, that still doesn't prove anything about religion entering the picture. There's pro-life Atheists, too.

You need to quote where I pushed my religion on you, or admit you were lying. You guys meticulously document every action of lolcows but can't find even one post where I pushed my religion on you?

Gee, maybe it's because I'm not a zealot, or a Qtard, or anything you call me.

 

[gang weeder]

“Murder is having the intent and action to take a person’s life”
P E R S O N
You should be arguing why a fetus should be seen as a person. But you’re still trying to prove a straw man argument, because you’re dense.

Well, I've tried to unpack what you consider to be a person or not a person, and you've struggled mightily with the issue. Is the implication here that it isn't murder so long as the person committing the killing genuinely believes their victim is not human? Because that will open quite a large can of worms.

why? these experiments are beneficial to improving medical technology and our understanding of pregnancies (y’know, these studies are beneficial to helping women have safer pregnancies and less complications, seems like a good deal for pro-birthers). really it just goes to show that you don’t actually care about life if you think that even studying a 12 week old embryo should be illegal

I could sit here and argue that all sorts of things might theoretically be beneficial in the future. None of them would ever justify murder in order to pursue their study in the present.

yes it fucking does. a weird gooey period blood clot resembling fetus is NOT the same as an infant that doesn’t need to be in the womb to survive.

I recognize that it's pointless to try and explain this distinction to you, but my OCD compels me. A miscarriage and an abortion are not the same as a "period clot."

that’s your problem though. you whine about the poor clumps of cells that’ll be aborted but don’t take a second to think about yourself being in the pregnant woman’s situation. you act like every woman’s reason for abortion is the same, if you did have empathy and took a moment to look at different women’s reasons, you’d be pro choice. but no, think about the poor fetus that will never have to go through the hardships that these women do

I mean, I can hypothetically put myself in anyone's situation and empathize, if I really want to. That is entirely useless when it comes to determining what moral standards society should actually abide by.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Mischaracterization aside, that still doesn't prove anything about religion entering the picture. There's pro-life Atheists, too.

You need to quote where I pushed my religion on you, or admit you were lying. You guys meticulously document every action of lolcows but can't find even one post where I pushed my religion on you?

Gee, maybe it's because I'm not a zealot, or a Qtard, or anything you call me.

There's not very many atheist pro lifers, lol. Most are religious fundies like you. And yes, you are pushing your evangelical pro life shit on us, thus you're forcing your religious bullshit on us.

And yes, you're a QTard. You called pro-choicers pedophiles (by calling them groomers). So congrats on that, too. You're like an evangelical bingo card.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

There's not very many atheist pro lifers, lol. Most are religious fundies like you.

Nice source, but it makes no difference even if there's not many Atheist pro-lifers; they exist, so the notion that being pro-life = religious is flawed.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Nice source, but it makes no difference even if there's not many Atheist pro-lifers; they exist, so the notion that being pro-life = religious is flawed.

lol sorry that you don't like being called out on being a religious fundie, Erischan. Stop trying to push your evangelical bullshit on the rest of us and taking away women's rights like a good little zealot

 

[Lurker]

Quote me doing so, then.

I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm trying to get you to understand they're technically unnecessary and immoral.

By all means, if people want to potentially wipe out their bloodlines and face God some day with the blood of his gift to them on their hands, they can feel free to do so for as long as it is legal. I certainly won't do any more than merely posit that it's wrong. If that bothers someone then good, they probably know it's wrong too and I've done enough.

attempt to appeal to emotion via religious bullshit. seems to me like you are trying to push your religious zealotry onto those who disagree with you.

 

[Muh Vagina]

Prove you're a woman then, incel.

This is a sad and pathetic attempt to solicit nudes.