Who cares if she's a welfare rat? Where is the moral good in ripping up a poor woman's uterus because bortshuns are haram? It would have been better for this woman's life circumstances, her body and society itself if she had had an abortion.
Because she could have had the abortion paid for, had her fat ass transported for free, and somehow it's my fault that I didn't personally do a D&C at the bedside. SWs workhard o help people like her, and all a lot of people can do is blame others. At what point does she have accountability? At what point are people like her expected to get out and vote?
I believe in the best in people. Most women who get abortions aren't her, but trust and believe: Her story isn't a tragedy about the system failing. She probably just found out you only get twilight sedation with abortions, not sweet opiates like you get with a birth. It irks me that this woman is being valorized as a martyr for giving birth when she couldn't even drag her ass to the doctor's for prenatal for the babies she allegedly wanted so much. Because it's not the right story, and I know the truth about exactly what's happening. You don't. There are real victims suffering and this lying pig isn't one of them, and the journo scum couldn't be bothered, because those stories aren't interesting enough.
You will never do enough to please the kind of people like her.
Because she could have had the abortion paid for, had her fat ass transported for free, and somehow it's my fault that I didn't personally do a D&C at the bedside. SWs workhard o help people like her, and all a lot of people can do is blame others. At what point does she have accountability?
Do you just hate poor whites or something? You already said poor whites like Joh from the Polissa thread shouldn't get free healthcare for poors and we should just let his diabeetus laygs rot off but illegal Mexicans with anchor babies should bc babies. But when a poor white women needs care for her babies, ehh yoo fuk dem whiteys bix nood frfr no cap!
Do you just hate poor whites or something? You already said poor whites like Joh from the Polissa thread shouldn't get free healthcare for poors and we should just let his diabeetus laygs rot off but illegal Mexicans with anchor babies should bc babies. But when a poor white women needs care for her babies, ehh yoo fuk dem whiteys bix nood frfr no cap!
My kneejerk reaction is, "NO!!!", but I really am going to think about this. You certainly see it with black, Asian, and Hispanic populations and it is equally irritating.
It's more that she avoided prenatal care and this lady knows about transport, what's available to her, etc. She knows way better than you and she chose to put her babies through suffering because it was hard to get off her chair and do the needful. I don't want to sound racist, but I would say the majority of people who pull this are black.
She obviously didn't mean to have conjoined twins who didn't develop properly, but I know what she was offered, and I know what she didn't do. Don't tell me how badly you needed the abortion you couldn't pick up the phone for. Those babies may have had issues that didn't allow them to have the comfort of morphine, and I find it selfish. I've seen what motivates people in these situations to do exactly what they do, and it is horrifying.
Did she though? It sounds like she tried, at least. I'm sure it's not always easy to find OBs accepting low income, high risk patients in rural Texas.
Early on, she felt an unfamiliar, gnawing anxiety about this pregnancy, but she struggled to get an appointment with an obstetrician. When the nurse practitioner said she might be having twins, she didn’t want to wait for a follow-up appointment. She went to the emergency room in Texarkana, half an hour away, where she learned there were two babies, and they might be conjoined or “mono mono,” developing in the same amniotic sac.
“We couldn’t get a straight answer, and it was just a run-around game,” she said.
To be sure, she’d have to go to a specialist three hours away in Allen. By the time she got the appointment, Levi found time off work, they coordinated travel with Angela and figured out child care, it was May and Miranda was four months pregnant.
If I was working and I saw a patient with that story come through, it would take me moments to figure out she's lying about something. So she skipped ahead to the ED because she "didn't want to wait." She didn't even know about this until 16 weeks. The story makes no sense based on her timeline.
It's goes on a lot about how many times she had to travel to Dallas for her prenatal appointments and that her husband couldn't go because he was working at the chicken plant. But I don't know enough about how the medical system works to see whether it's sus or not.
Miranda and Levi typically left for these appointments by 3 a.m., a suitcase of her clothes in the backseat, just in case. They drive an hour to Angela’s house in Broken Bow, Oklahoma, so she and Miranda can go on to Dallas together.
Levi usually can’t join them. He works a 4:30 a.m. shift at Tyson doing “live hang,” sending chickens off to slaughter for hours at a time.
“She’s fighting hard for them, so the only thing I can really do is just keep the house clean, keep her happy and work,” he said.
Even with Miranda on Medicaid and Angela covering the gas and meals for these Dallas trips, this pregnancy was crushingly expensive for the young family. Levi’s sister organized a fundraiser, which helped.
All of Miranda’s children are named after Greek gods — Ares, 5, Artemis, 4, and Eros, 9 months. She had to get Ares enrolled in kindergarten, track down medical records from Utah and deal with Artemis’ persistent ear infections. She also had to find a way to parent her children through a tragedy she herself has not yet come to terms with.
Ares, with his first-day-of-school hair cut, is too smart for his own good. He had gotten used to the rhythm of pregnancy, and couldn’t wait to play with the siblings he was sure his mother would bring home. Artemis, who goes by Missy, quickly got over wanting a sister and now wanted to buy her new brothers clothes.
Miranda and Levi tried to explain death, God and heaven. They say the babies got sick inside Mommy’s belly and wouldn’t be coming home. But it was not clear how much was sinking in.
At the end of one of these heavy conversations, Miranda made an off-hand comment to Levi: “Maybe some gods are just needed back on Olympus.” That was the part that stuck. Ares told the neighborhood kids that his baby brothers were Greek gods who had to return to Mount Olympus, setting off a minor religious panic among the other parents.
Aww, that's so cute how the kids said that but pathetic parents were triggered when it should have been clear that it was a grieving mom trying to explain death to little kids. I normally hate it when people name their kids after Gods but I'll give her a pass because they said she dropped out of high school and got her GED later online.
Theophoric names like Artemisia are much better though, for the record. She could have named them Arius, Artemisia and I'm not aware if there were theophoric names for Eros but maybe Erodorus. Naming a kid after the god of sexual passion is kind of bleh to me though. At least Venus/Aphrodite has roles outside of sexual passion and romantic love.
Does anyone here live or grew up in a place like Texas and would people be that triggered by the "they had to go back to Olympus" thing?
The irony was how the few doctors who offered late term abortions were vilified because most late term abortions were due to getting terrible Dx in the second trimester.
This isn't true. Even pro-choice researchers and activists acknowledge that fetal anomalies represent a small percentage of late-term abortions, although we don't have exact numbers yet.
"According to Diana Greene Foster, the lead investigator on the Turnaway study (described above) and a professor at the University of California, San Francisco, Bixby Center for Global Reproductive Health, “[t]here aren’t good data on how often later abortions are for medical reasons.”14 Based on limited research and discussions with researchers in the field, Dr. Foster believes that abortions for fetal anomaly “make up a small minority of later abortion” and that those for life endangerment are even harder to characterize.15" source
Do you just hate poor whites or something? You already said poor whites like Joh from the Polissa thread shouldn't get free healthcare for poors and we should just let his diabeetus laygs rot off but illegal Mexicans with anchor babies should bc babies. But when a poor white women needs care for her babies, ehh yoo fuk dem whiteys bix nood frfr no cap!
This isn't true. Even pro-choice researchers and activists acknowledge that fetal anomalies represent a small percentage of late-term abortions, although we don't have exact numbers yet.
"According to Diana Greene Foster, the lead investigator on the Turnaway study (described above) and a professor at the University of California, San Francisco, Bixby Center for Global Reproductive Health, “[t]here aren’t good data on how often later abortions are for medical reasons.”14 Based on limited research and discussions with researchers in the field, Dr. Foster believes that abortions for fetal anomaly “make up a small minority of later abortion” and that those for life endangerment are even harder to characterize.15" source
My posts were moved here from another thread. My statement is about abortions for non-viable Dx is for abortions after 24 weeks, the study you posted is 20 weeks and later and they specifically chose 20 weeks, as opposed to 21, because very few clinics offered abortions after week 20. It’s pretty much the last week most women could obtain an abortion in their state so you would have a lot of different reasons for women getting an abortion at 20 weeks (as opposed to getting one at 24 weeks).
The quote starts out saying “there isn’t good data” and then Dr. Foster “believes” medical reasons make up a small minority so that’s one doctor’s opinion based on admittedly not good data, but the data is also including abortions at 20 weeks. I’m sure abortions at 20 weeks, or earlier, are done for many different and not medical related reasons.
Reading that report it states most of the little data they do have comes from the “turn away study” so it’s information about women who said they wanted an abortion after 20 weeks but were “turned away” and were unable to get one.
from 30 abortion facilities across the country. The data were collected from 2008 through the end of 2010. For comparison purposes, the Turnaway study recruited three groups of women: (1) those who obtained a first trimester abortion, (2) those who obtained an abortion just under the clinic’s gestational limit, and (3) those who were turned away because of advanced gestation.9
Women who get turned away at clinic for advanced gestational age probably cite all kinds of reasons for why they want an abortion. The “gestational limit” also varies from clinic to clinic but it’s generally 16 or 20 weeks. After week 20 was the gestational cut off for almost every clinic.
The group of women I was referring to are ones who get abortions at week 21 or later. Basically past the standard cutoff of the majority of clinics. These are obtained for dire fetal defects.
The women who actually go through the incredible cost, difficulty and travel to obtain one past week 21 are a very different group than a woman who merely asks about obtaining one or those who get them at the 20 week cut off or before. Abortions after 20 weeks comprise only 1.3% of all abortions. If you look at the statistics for severe birth defects among pregnancies it’s around 6%.
CRS states the are basing it on the “gestational limit” at the clinic, but doesn’t then state if that’s 12, 16, 20, or 24 weeks. I’m sure many, if not most, abortions at 20 weeks, or before, are done for non-medical reasons.
I’m not sure how the gray area between 21-23 gestational weeks plays out, but the standard cutoff tended to be not performing abortions after week 20.
There were a significant number of providers who offered abortions early in the second trimester, but not abortions after 21 weeks. The major problem with this is that some really terrible conditions are only discovered during the anatomy scan done during week 18. Obtaining an abortion early in the second trimester is very different than one late in the second trimester. Many clinics put in very hard cutoff dates at 16 weeks, others up to week 20. But 21 weeks and later is what I was referring to for abortions that are obtained for terrible fetal diagnoses.
A study published in 2017 found that due to advancements in prenatal testing, the gestational age at the time of abortion for fetal aneuploidy decreased substantially from 19 weeks in 2004 to 14 weeks in 2014.18 In contrast, the 2017 study found that women seeking abortion for fetal structural abnormalities did not experience a change in timing: the median gestational age was greater than or equal to 20 weeks for each year during the study interval, likely because “no first- trimester screening test exists for most of the nonaneuploid fetal structural abnormalities” and therefore “diagnosis of structural abnormalities has relied on second-trimester ultrasound.”19
I should also change my language. Abortions after 21 weeks aren’t just strictly about non-viability, but also defects/deformities that might be survivable but result in profound retardation and/or issues that mean life-long medical care and total dependency. The fact the child will have a poor quality of life, and/or mind of an infant, is also a major reason for abortions after 21 weeks, not just if the defect is survivable or not. It tends to be major physical and mental defects.
In the past 30 years medical technology has ensured babies that would have died within hours, days or weeks after birth can now be kept alive for years. (The actual quality of that life isn’t really considered, just the physical body can be kept alive.)
I’m not interested in debating abortion on KF but my, and a few other quotes, were moved here from a thread that’s specifically about potato babies and the mothers who use them to get attention on SM (they tend to like to sell MLMs too) but I’ll do one post to clarify my statement.
Here is the site I had referenced in my previous post that was moved here. If anyone is interested they can read about women who obtained abortions after 24 weeks, and why, here: https://endingawantedpregnancy.com/category/diagnoses/termafter24weeks/
The women writing these stories mention finding out that even in their circumstances (Medically Indicated Abortions, meaning they all had terrible fetal Dx) there were only two doctors in the entire country that would provide an abortion. Many had assumed in the case of horrific defects or non-viability their own doctor or hospital could help them under the circumstances, but that’s not the case.
They also detail how expensive and difficult the entire ordeal was. This is why many women give birth to a baby that dies minutes to days after birth or one that survives for months or years needing 24/7 medical care with zero chance for any quality of life besides staring at a ceiling hooked up to tubes. There really isn’t much of a choice in the matter for most women if the defects are found later in the pregnancy.
If anyone is interested here is list of the various diagnosis/ fetal conditions that these women sought abortions for.
Achondrogenesis Type II
Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum
Alobar Holoprosencephaly
Amniotic Band Syndrome
Anencephaly
Arthrogryposis
Autosomal Recessive Amyoplasia
Brain Defect
Chromosome Deletion
Chromosome 9 Trisomy
Congenital Heart Defects (CHDs)
Cytomegalovirus (CMV)
Cystic Fibrosis
Cystic Hygroma
Dandy Walker Syndrome
Holoprosencephaly
Hydrocephalus
Hydrops Fetalis (Fetal Hydrops)
Hyperemesis Gravidarium
Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome (HLHS)
Hypoplastic Right Heart Syndrome (HRHS)
Kidney or Renal Disorder all
Megacystis Microcolon Intestinal Hypoperistalsis Syndrome
(MMIHS or Berdon Syndrome)
Neural Tube Defects (NTDs) all
Oligohydramnios
Omphalocele
Osteogenesis Imperfecta
Posterior Urethral Valves (PUV)
Potter Syndrome (Potter Sequence)
Spina Bifida
Skeletal Dysplasia
Trisomy 9
(Chromosome 9 Trisomy Mosiac or Complete)
Trisomy 13
(Patau Syndrome)
Trisomy 18
(Edward Syndrome)
Trisomy 21
(Down Syndrome)
Trisomy Y
(48 XYYY)
Turner Syndrome
(45 X)
Twin To Twin Transfusion Syndrome
(TTTS)
This above list is NOT reflective of only abortions after 20 weeks, it’s only a list medically indicated abortions at any stage. Many of the conditions listed can be detected during the first trimester and abortions care used to available in every state before 12 weeks.
The problem with the anomalies that are discovered at the 18 week anatomy scan is that there can be some small bit of hope. Many conditions can be mild to severe and only letting the pregnancy progress another 4-6 weeks will let a doctor 100% confirm how severe the defect will be. The women hang on hard to the hope of 1% chances and possible exceptions. Many won’t consider abortion until they are told with 100% certainty how severe the defect is. Remember these women really wanted these pregnancies, were happily decorating nurseries, and then were suddenly given a devastating prognosis. By the time they get a FUBAR Dx confirmed they have reached the stage where only one or two clinics in the country will provide an abortion.
Also due to law changes, retirements and abortion doctors being harassed and assassinated there have been changes over the number of providers who offer late term abortions and what # of weeks in the pregnancy is their cut off. But the number of doctors who provide “late term abortions” or abortions after 24 weeks, has been four or less for the past 20 years. It’s usually been two, it was three until Dr Tiller was shot and killed at his church. I recall it being just 2 for quite a number of years.
While I believe early second trimester abortions are sought for a variety of reasons, all the accounts of late second trimester or third trimester abortions I have ever read about in the USA over the last two decades were related to severe fetal defects. Im sure there have been other reasons, but they would be a tiny minority. As that CRS report stated there isn’t good data and the number is small to begin with. The CRS data using “at or over 20 weeks” as a criteria is irritating since it’s including women obtaining them right before the cut-off for most clinics. The data would drastically change if it was after 21 weeks. You would have many women getting abortions for non-medical reasons due to including week 20 .
I think abortions past 21 weeks would be obtained for other reasons IF the cost and difficulty in obtaining them wasn’t so immense. But very few women can travel hundreds or thousand of miles, take a week off work and pay $10-20k cash. Women from the link above discuss how they cashed in 401k, obtained second mortgages or loans from family to come up with the money for medically indicated abortions after 24 weeks. It tends to be a procedure only obtained in very grimmest and most desperate of circumstances. I think it’s awful that women faced with the tragedy of a terrible fetal Dx of a wanted pregnancy have to deal with such bullshit thanks to the insane abortion laws. There should be exemptions but even when states try to carve them out it becomes a pedantic shitfest over what should qualify for the exemptions, because you can’t trust the woman who will birth and care for the child to decide.
on the contrary, women who have gotten molested usually pop out plenty of kids and then start hunting for men to come in and molest them. the cycle must continue
i've only seen and heard about three things that actually put a damper on women's baby obsessions
- having a terrible mom
- having to babysit lots of younger siblings or being otherwise parentified from a young age
- having a heavy drug addiction
with how screwy she-who-shall-not-be-named acts, i wouldn't be surprised there's no molestation but all of the other three things
doublepost: abortion is important for women the same reason guns are important for men. you rarely ever genuinely need access to it but in that 1% chance you do need it you'd much rather the ability to defend yourself. women don't get guns. men don't get abortion. but they're both extremely important self-defense tools and they should both be freely available
on the contrary, women who have gotten molested usually pop out plenty of kids and then start hunting for men to come in and molest them. the cycle must continue
i've only seen and heard about three things that actually put a damper on women's baby obsessions
- having a terrible mom
- having to babysit lots of younger siblings or being otherwise parentified from a young age
- having a heavy drug addiction
with how screwy she-who-shall-not-be-named acts, i wouldn't be surprised there's no molestation but all of the other three things
what gets me is just all the horror stories I hear from parents irl and on reddit. "HAHA AUBRIANA CAN'T KEEP HER DIAPER ON. THE ENTIRE BASEMENT IS COVERED IN POOP" Or they practically brag about how their gremlin's screams keep them up all night. HE DOES LITERALLY NOTHING BUT SCREAM, SHIT AND VOMIT LMAO
I'd like to have kids someday but dealing with those three things nonstop I might go insane idk
what gets me is just all the horror stories I hear from parents irl and on reddit. "HAHA AUBRIANA CAN'T KEEP HER DIAPER ON. THE ENTIRE BASEMENT IS COVERED IN POOP" Or they practically brag about how their gremlin's screams keep them up all night. HE DOES LITERALLY NOTHING BUT SCREAM, SHIT AND VOMIT LMAO
I'd like to have kids someday but dealing with those three things nonstop I might go insane idk
i think the drugs that naturally get pumped into both mothers and fathers when a baby is born overrides a lot of the overthinking-it problems that non-parents have
I used to be pro-life when I was like 12, but then I did a big thunk and realised that there are a million and one ways to kill a developing foetus and none of them are as safe for the woman as getting it done professionally. You don't have to like or agree with abortion to realise that women still have the right to good healthcare, and if someone really doesn't want that baby it's as good as gone, a coathanger or a baseball bat will do the job. Prohibition proved bans don't really work, if you ban abortion why do people think it'd end differently?
Any reason a prolifer tolerates is no longer abortion, according to the pro-life OB-GYN organization AAPLOG. Kind of reminds you of when pro-life women claim "the only moral abortion is my abortion".
At least Venus/Aphrodite has roles outside of sexual passion and romantic love.
