The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Nom Carver]

I take it you don't have sex unless you're prepared to care for a child?

Having to pay for an abortion is a consequence. It might not be the specific one you want women to suffer, but it's still a consequence.

I bet the idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're prepared for a kid because yeeting an embryo is so horrible will go over real well with married couple that don't want kids or are done having them.

If you don't want to play your chances that your protection might be faulty, than yes. Don't have sex. I know, boo-fucking-hoo I took away your favorite addiction.

 

[Zarael]

A first trimester embryo/fetus is absolutely not as conscious or developed as a newborn.

See pro-abortionists always throw out these weird completely unjustifiable statements. There is no way to measure consciousness so it's impossible to say a first trimester fetus is "not as conscious" as a newborn. Not as developed, yes but you're just using pure intuition on the consciousness question which is hardly rigorous and should give you pause when you're tying the moral culpability of killing to such a vague metric.

There's actually a coma scale someone posted in Tard Baby recently used to evaluate conciousness and brain damage severity.

Entirely useless. If you develop an AI and it screams when you turn it off is it conscious? Whether any other being has a subjective active sense of self is complete guesswork, it's not an empirically accessible area of reality to us. If you're going to poke things with a stick and see if they respond then in many respects a first trimester fetus is "more" conscious than a coma patient, but then again so is a slug and I don't see anyone arguing that coma patients have less moral value than slugs. This is if you actually tie external response to stimulus as an accurate measure of whether a being has some kind of subjective first person consciousness though and I'm not convinced that it's sensible to do so.

 

[Android raptor]

Yes, birth control is terrible for women's bodies and for a number of reasons.

I tend to be more interested in the emotional and psychosocial effects and the fact that women are attracted to different men when on or off bc pill is horrible for everyone involved.

Antidepressants pretty much kill libido most of the time, and burth control does the same to a number of women.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that all women on birth control is polluting water with female hormones, which seems to be one of the contributing factors to the last 5 decades of rapidly declining sperm quality.

So yes, if people are heavily medicated, it is not a surprise their bodies don't exactly function naturally.

And yes, women that care about their health are better off going off birth control pill. There are better ways of preventing pregnancies anyways. I know that rattles your biggest fears, but considering you have a deathly fear of pregnancy while not having heterosexual sex, I think it is safe to say it's not exactly a very rational fear.

Why would anyone subject their body to such an unnatural hormone cocktail anyways? You're not even the same person while on them. How can an orgasm here and there be worth such a cost?

Though I do admit your autism is fun to read. I'll probably never forget that somebody claimed that taking horsecock is as natural as childbirth or the surprise that being heavily medicated may be the reason your friends have some issues with their plumbing. It is starting to feel a bit cruel as you desperately try to redirect attention to how much you'd like to peg the guy that doesn't like anal.

Birth control is actually great for most women, not only does it help prevent pregnancy, but it does wonders for everything from acne to heavy periods. The side effects are usually mild and easily treated (like buying some lube if you get a bit dry down there).

My IUD is the best 130 bux I've ever spent. No more Satan's waterfall and a reduction in the issues it would cause with my mental health (I would get straight up suicidal around shark week because lol mental illness + hormones).

Birth control can also help with everything from PCOS to endometriosis.

Like damn dude, you really trying to say birth control is evil because you think it's the reason women aren't attracted to you and you have poor sperm quality or some shit? Truly an expert on women's health right here.

If you don't want to play your chances that your protection might be faulty, than yes. Don't have sex. I know, boo-fucking-hoo I took away your favorite addiction.

Penis in vagina sex is my favorite addiction even though I've powerleveled all over this thread about being gay and having like no sex drive?

 

[artilleryfroth]

For those who disagreed with my post above, I genuinely would like to know your perspective. I know mine has changed as I went from being young and single to being older and having had kids. I want to hear people saying things that they can say here and possibly nowhere else.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Birth control is actually great for most women, not only does it help prevent pregnancy, but it does wonders for everything from acne to heavy periods. The side effects are usually mild and easily treated (like buying some lube if you get a bit dry down there).

My IUD is the best 130 bux I've ever spent. No more Satan's waterfall and a reduction in the issues it would cause with my mental health (I would get straight up suicidal around shark week because lol mental illness + hormones).

Birth control can also help with everything from PCOS to endometriosis.

Like damn dude, you really trying to say birth control is evil because you think it's the reason women aren't attracted to you and you have poor sperm quality or some shit? Truly an expert on women's health right here.

Penis in vagina sex is my favorite addiction even though I've powerleveled all over this thread about being gay and having like no sex drive?

Most Kiwi Farms right-wingers are turbo-autists whose parents support them and are hugless virgins, so they're probably mad that women don't want to have sex with them and thus want to punish women and want them to not have sex with anyone

 

[Nom Carver]

Most Kiwi Farms right-wingers are turbo-autists whose parents support them and are hugless virgins, so they're probably mad that women don't want to have sex with them and thus want to punish women and want them to not have sex with anyone

Would you prefer we just start arguing by calling you all child murderers? Or no, is it only okay when you do it?

 

[Android raptor]

Most Kiwi Farms right-wingers are turbo-autists whose parents support them and are hugless virgins, so they're probably mad that women don't want to have sex with them and thus want to punish women and want them to not have sex with anyone

Pretty much. They get mad when we call them incels but they make it painfully obvious they have very little experience with women (including platonic relationships with them) when they say shit like no women enjoy anal or vaginal dryness is extremely rare and only caused by lack of arousal or birth control is horrible and women shouldn't take it. Like just talking to and being friends with enough women will teach you that none of that is true. Dudes are like mallninjas who claim they know a lot about guns but everything they post makes it blatantly obvious they don't know shit.

Would you prefer we just start arguing by calling you all child murderers? Or no, is it only okay when you do it?

Dude that sounds metal AF, I personally have no problem with you calling me a child murderer because I think it's okay for women to rid their bodies of unwanted embryos.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Birth control is actually great for most women, not only does it help prevent pregnancy, but it does wonders for everything from acne to heavy periods. The side effects are usually mild and easily treated (like buying some lube if you get a bit dry down there).

My IUD is the best 130 bux I've ever spent. No more Satan's waterfall and a reduction in the issues it would cause with my mental health (I would get straight up suicidal around shark week because lol mental illness + hormones).

Birth control can also help with everything from PCOS to endometriosis.

Like damn dude, you really trying to say birth control is evil because you think it's the reason women aren't attracted to you and you have poor sperm quality or some shit? Truly an expert on women's health right here.

I don't say birth control is evil, I say most forms of birth control are unhealthy and I've said why they're unhealthy and you've named a couple of reasons yourself.

Your friends are buying lube because their bodies don't function normally. You have the sex experience of, in your own words "a rock" because you're on antidepressents. I don't think any of that is evil or morally wrong. I'm sad that you are in a place where you're depressed without them. I'm sad that your friends think being dry is normal.

I'm sad that you get angry and lash out rather than use the knowledge to your advantage. I know I threw a little dirt back at you when you tried to call me an incel. I have regrets about my voracious sex life, but not insecurities, that's why it doesn't work.

But you are clearly insecure about your and your friends's health and not without reason. It hadn't occured to you that the dryness in bed was connected to the medication and now you seem to have accepted the fact by saying buying lube is worth the other choices. From denial to bargaining. Couple of steps to go in the grieving process.

With that you've also admitted that it is possible for a guy to be informed about female bodies (as if women come out of the uterus with full medical knowledge).

We are all plagued by the fact that we are at the center of every one of our experiences.

I know I have bias when it comes to IUD's for example. One GF's periods just became that much more painful for her. Another was worse. She just lost all of her joy in life (and sex, though for sex was the main thing in her life anyways). But then another had no issues whatsoever with it. I've only known three gfs with iuds and from what I read, it is less harmful than birth control pill.

Except of course that when an IUD fails it can lead to a horror scenario

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ce6c259e4b05c15dea86856

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Pretty much. They get mad when we call them incels but they make it painfully obvious they have very little experience with women (including platonic relationships with them) when they say shit like no women enjoy anal or vaginal dryness is extremely rare and only caused by lack of arousal or birth control is horrible and women shouldn't take it. Like just talking to and being friends with enough women will teach you that none of that is true. Dudes are like mallninjas who claim they know a lot about guns but everything they post makes it blatantly obvious they don't know shit.

They're almost as bad as their fellow right-wing dork Ben Shapiro who didn't know that pussies could get wet despite being married

Would you prefer we just start arguing by calling you all child murderers? Or no, is it only okay when you do it?

Good thing a fetus isn't a baby then, right?

PROTIP: Women generally don't like it when you want to take away their reproductive rights. You might be able to get laid if you stop acting like a right-wing incel

 

[Lemmingwise]

Late to this, but too bad for y’all, so here’s my biased opinion.

If a female person and a male person have sex, no matter what precautions they use, they both are consenting to the risk of a pregnancy, because there is no 100% safe contraceptive other than being celibate, being homosexual, or doing it back-to-back.

The woman gets to decide whether to continue the pregnancy because it is her body and life that are on the line. Pregnancy and childbirth are dangerous and debilitating.

However I think the man should also have an “out” where if he doesn’t want a child, and discovers he has impregnated someone, he can complete a legal form and have no responsibility towards the eventual child in future ever. If the woman doesn’t contact him during the pregnancy so that he can get this organised, he retains the right to do so within a reasonable time (maybe a month) after she claims money from him.

Why can’t we all do something like this..?

I think the term as used by mras is "legal abortion" or "financial abortion"

If we cared about equality it would be entirely reasonable. But nobody really cares about equality. We know men and women are different, we treat them different. I even go mild on @Android raptor because I know she's female and she tries to attack lack of sexual experience in male posters because she know they're male.

And little hulkie wouldn't be here m'ladying for male posters either. We are a gendered species and both genders are rather different.

If I believed in equality, like I did when I was younger, I'd probably agree with financial abortion.

But then children of single mothers turn out terrible. When ann coulter said that having a single mom was worth to health outcomes of a child than smoking during pregnancy, I laughed.
I wanted to see how wrong she was. But the stats proved her right.

I'm sure there are other factors than straight causation, but it still gave me pause.

So no, I wouldn't support legal/financial abortion either.

 

[Nom Carver]

Dude that sounds metal AF, I personally have no problem with you calling me a child murderer because I think it's okay for women to rid their bodies of unwanted embryos.

I think it says a lot that you're happy to wear that like a pseudo badge of honor.

 

[Android raptor]

I don't say birth control is evil, I say most forms of birth control are unhealthy and I've said why they're unhealthy and you've named a couple of reasons yourself.

Your friends are buying lube because their bodies don't function normally. You have the sex experience of, in your own words "a rock" because you're on antidepressents. I don't think any of that is evil or morally wrong. I'm sad that you are in a place where you're depressed without them. I'm sad that your friends think being dry is normal.

I'm sad that you get angry and lash out rather than use the knowledge to your advantage. I know I threw a little dirt back at you when you tried to call me an incel. I have regrets about my voracious sex life, but not insecurities, that's why it doesn't work.

But you are clearly insecure about your and your friends's health and not without reason. It hadn't occured to you that the dryness in bed was connected to the medication and now you seem to have accepted the fact by saying buying lube is worth the other choices. From denial to bargaining. Couple of steps to go in the grieving process.

With that you've also admitted that it is possible for a guy to be informed about female bodies (as if women come out of the uterus with full medical knowledge).

We are all plagued by the fact that we are at the center of every one of our experiences.

I know I have bias when it comes to IUD's for example. One GF's periods just became that much more painful for her. Another was worse. She just lost all of her joy in life (and sex, though for sex was the main thing in her life anyways). But then another had no issues whatsoever with it. I've only known three gfs with iuds and from what I read, it is less harmful than birth control pill.

Except of course that when an IUD fails it can lead to a horror scenario

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ce6c259e4b05c15dea86856

View attachment 1928095

The potential for IUDs to fail is a reason everyone needs access to safe abortion. Seriously, kill it with fire.

I'm pretty sure me and all my friends would rather deal with minor side effects from our meds than what happens when we don't take them. I personally become a nasty, unstable, suicidal monster. I'll take no sex drive over that shit any day.

If you want to blame anything for me needing meds to function, blame my parents for choosing to have kids only to fuck them up and give them mental illnesses. Again, that's why people shouldn't be bringing kids into the world they can't properly care for. If you get pregnant and know you're crazy and will just treat a kid like shit, abort that shit long before it becomes a kid.

Never said vaginal dryness is normal per se, just that it's a pretty common issue caused by lots of different things. Meds causing it isn't news to me, though it sounds like it is for you.

Not all women react well to IUDs. The copper ones especially tend to worsen periods. That's why you always go for the hormonal ones if you can.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

The potential for IUDs to fail is a reason everyone needs access to safe abortion. Seriously, kill it with fire.

I'm pretty sure me and all my friends would rather deal with minor side effects from our meds than what happens when we don't take them. I personally become a nasty, unstable, suicidal monster. I'll take no sex drive over that shit any day.

If you want to blame anything for me needing meds to function, blame my parents for choosing to have kids only to fuck them up and give them mental illnesses. Again, that's why people shouldn't be bringing kids into the world they can't properly care for. If you get pregnant and know you're crazy and will just treat a kid like shit, abort that shit long before it becomes a kid.

Never said vaginal dryness is normal per se, just that it's a pretty common issue caused by lots of different things. Meds causing it isn't news to me, though it sounds like it is for you.

Not all women react well to IUDs. The copper ones especially tend to worsen periods. That's why you always go for the hormonal ones if you can.

It's funny how the pro-life people are usually against welfare programs to help feed said children and also are fine with covid killing tons of people because they can't be asked to wear a mask without throwing a temper tantrum. They also don't want abortions to be legal, but also don't want women to take birth control. They're just mad that people are getting laid that aren't them

 

[Lemmingwise]

The potential for IUDs to fail is a reason everyone needs access to safe abortion.

I'd be fine with abortions with such serious health risks. No sense in having two deaths if you can reduce it to one. Countries with stringent abortion laws like Russia already have that possibility anyways and also in the case of rape, which is the only way you could get pregnant

I personally become a nasty, unstable, suicidal monster

I guess you finally answered the question why someone that believes they should have been aborted doesn't kill herself. I'm glad that you found help.

I have a person close to me with a comparable background to yours, btw, so I probably understand better than you can imagine.

PROTIP: Women generally don't like it when you want to take away their reproductive rights. You might be able to get laid if you stop acting like a right-wing incel

Here's the real protip: this has never gotten hogan laid.

 

[Android raptor]

I think the term as used by mras is "legal abortion" or "financial abortion"

If we cared about equality it would be entirely reasonable. But nobody really cares about equality. We know men and women are different, we treat them different. I even go mild on @Android raptor because I know she's female and she tries to attack lack of sexual experience in male posters because she know they're male.

And little hulkie wouldn't be here m'ladying for male posters either. We are a gendered species and both genders are rather different.

If I believed in equality, like I did when I was younger, I'd probably agree with financial abortion.

But then children of single mothers turn out terrible. When ann coulter said that having a single mom was worth to health outcomes of a child than smoking during pregnancy, I laughed.
I wanted to see how wrong she was. But the stats proved her right.

I'm sure there are other factors than straight causation, but it still gave me pause.

So no, I wouldn't support legal/financial abortion either.

Let's see, we got

1. Implying women have delicate ladybrains that can't handle certain things and need to be treated differently
2. Mentioning believing in equality when younger before getting redpilled
3. Irrational fear of single mothers

Damn it's like an A&H poster drinking game.

Btw if a single women got pregnant, should she still be forced to have a kid? After all if she does that'll mean she's a single mother, which for some reason the A&H crowd thinks are the root of all evil.

 

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

Noble of you to define personhood in a way that excludes yourself.

"When higher brain functions start" is an incredibly vague way to define the line between "It's ok to kill this biological human" and "It's not ok to kill this biological human". Can you actually give a specific time here or do doctors just play it by ear. Fetuses can respond to stimuli in the first trimester so it's very likely any criteria you use to define "higher brain function" that would include a newly born infant would also include first trimester pregnancies. It's the same issue for people who say you need to have consciousness to be a person. How do you measure consciousness? You can't even be 100% sure that other people aren't p-zombies, why would you draw such a fuzzy line when it comes to one of the most important moral issues, under what circumstances is it ok to kill a human being and the answer for pro-abortionists seems to be "If I poke it with a stick and am not satisfied it cried loud enough"

I like that you're calling me stupid while you talk about how hardwired stimulus responses proves that "abloohoohoo it's a real human." This isn't "the most pressing moral issue" you overdramatic faggot. There's people who are starving to death right now, or freezing to death because they're homeless in the winter. Where's your compassion for that? Oh right, that's no big deal because you only care about unborn humans. And I'm going to take a wild guess that you certainly don't support giving money to people who can't afford children, because while you're throwing "pro choice bad and all same arguments" at me you seem to misunderstand that pro life shit is always the exact same shit over and over. I just think it's really strange how all of you act like you're more advanced morally when you stop caring about people the second they're actually born. And no you dumb fuck, no one sane supports post birth abortion so get a better argument.

You're moralfagging at me like I give a shit. WHO. FUCKING. CARES. Are you even a woman? Can you get pregnant? What is with this shit where all of you are on a website for viciously mocking other humans trying to claim higher morality? At what point do you grasp that you're in the wrong fucking place for that?

Fucking hell ROFL.

ETA: Come on @Android raptor, I post in A&H lol we're not all fucking retarded.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Let's see, we got

1. Implying women have delicate ladybrains that can't handle certain things and need to be treated differently
2. Mentioning believing in equality when younger before getting redpilled
3. Irrational fear of single mothers

Damn it's like an A&H poster drinking game.

Btw if a single women got pregnant, should she still be forced to have a kid? After all if she does that'll mean she's a single mother, which for some reason the A&H crowd thinks are the root of all evil.

You can literally spend the next three to four hours going through studies on google scholar and opening them with sci hub to read them and you could confirm it for yourself.

The average guy wants to make sure he's accurate before he makes a clear statement about something like that and verify for himself, which pretty much supports that yes, you are irrational. You've already taken knowledge I offered you and accepted it (meds and vaginal lubrication) and you still hang on to the "men can't know a single thing about female bodies that women don't already know".

It is a pretty stunning display of irrationality and considering that I've been stuck in bed due to an injury, I'd like to say thanks for the enjoyment on what would have been a very dull two days.

Again you try to strawman and call single mothers evil, whereas what I said was that I was okay with forcing biological dads to take care of their kids and not giving them a legal out (something if you were consistent and for equality you would support. Do you? Do you support financial abortion, the choice for expecting fathers to say: no, I will not have any legal obligation towards this child?)

 

[Zero Day Defense]

This is a bit of a trifle and certainly off-topic, but it is relevant given recent remarks: does anybody get the sense that male ignorance of the female body is exaggerated? Like, either to praise (by way of denigrating some other group of men) or denigrate? I'm certainly not ignorant, so I've had ladies give asides about their surprise regarding my knowledge, but I find it odd to think that there's a substantial number of men that don't know the basics of the female body despite having to take sex ed thrice during grade school.

There's people who are starving to death right now, or freezing to death because they're homeless in the winter. Where's your compassion for that?

You're in "The Abortion Debate Containment Thread", not "The Human Suffering Debate Containment Thread".

You're moralfagging at me like I give a shit. WHO. FUCKING. CARES. Are you even a woman? Can you get pregnant? What is with this shit where all of you are on a website for viciously mocking other humans trying to claim higher morality?

What if he's not here for that? There's plenty here that doesn't involve that.

Also, this applies to you:

Literally every single time I have seen somebody say something like this on the forum, it's been a tacit admission that they've realized their original point was completely indefensible and stupid and are now just trying to argue that nobody here should be allowed to think too hard about it 'because we're just here to laugh at people.'

 

[Android raptor]

I guess you finally answered the question why someone that believes they should have been aborted doesn't kill herself. I'm glad that you found help.

I mean yeah, taking my meds gives me less desire to kill myself. That's what they're prescribed for. People take meds for very important reasons, that's why they're generally willing to deal with minor side effects they cause.

Though the fact that I know damn well my mom would just use my death to get pity and attention for herself really is the biggest reason I'm still alive. It's cliche, but I also want to piss on her grave when she dies. It's not so much that my life is worth living as it is that I continue to exist to spite people like her.

She still should've aborted me as an embryo tho.

Again you try to strawman and call single mothers evil, whereas what I said was that I was okay with forcing biological dads to take care of their kids and not giving them a legal out (something if you were consistent and for equality you would support. Do you? Do you support financial abortion, the choice for expecting fathers to say: no, I will not have any legal obligation towards this child?)

Hell yeah. If a dude is willing to give up any rights to his kid so he doesnt have to pay for it, he probably wouldn't treat them right anyway. Kids shouldn't be around people that don't want them and are just going to treat them like shit.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Here's the real protip: this has never gotten hogan laid.

Not that by itself (I go by the "make them laugh by being a cheeky bastard" route) but women aren't going to want your autistic dick in them if you think they don't deserve autonomy over their body