What if I want to abort the baby but the woman decides to have it anyways so that I am "forced" to provide child support for the rest of my life? Doesn't seem very "pro-choice" on my end.
Boo hoo, consequences for spreading my legs everywhere is MISOGYNY!
You don't support abortion. That "what if" can go right out the window.
So you admit you want abortion to be banned so you can punish women for having sex. Got it.
Well, if we play it that way, I suppose I get to discard any hypothetical you pose without addressing it because you don't already agree with me. Great logic.
>mock your position
No you are just a retarded sperg who can’t actually argue against people or comprehend things.
And if a woman "forces" me to have a kid I didn't want and would prefer to have aborted? It is interesting how the notion of "forcing" children onto someone only ever seems to flow in one direction with you people. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek using the term misandry before, but what you're describing does seem to me like actual misandry in which you're valuing women above men and placing men as subservient to whatever women want (as opposed to valuing actual gender equality).
Then she should raise the child if she isn’t going to abort it.
I didn't give you any hypothetical situations to reply to.
You can't just go "it's irony bro" every time you get obliterated. I'm pretty sure you're unironically misogynistic.
You don't even quote the Bible? Why not? If it backs up your pro-life stance, then quote it.
No offense, but you admitted you didn't even reference religion.
There are many verses in the Bible where the Israelites are explicitly told to kill babies of neighboring tribes when they were at war god also does this regularly.
But where is my choice in all of this? If I don't want a child, must I still be "forced" to support it? It seems that you only believe in giving a "choice" to women. Maybe you should call yourself "pro-female-choice" instead of "pro-choice." Or "anti-male-choice."
Are you a Christian?
There is obviously a lot of overlap between religious belief (and not just Christianity--Muslims and Jews who actually practice their beliefs don't tend to tolerate abortion either) and pro-life stances in a cultural sense, but there is no necessary link what so ever between the two philosophically. Unless one were to posit that religious belief is required in order to value human life, which would be an interesting take I suppose. But most atheists still clearly place value on human life, and that is the only philosophical prerequisite for opposing abortion (because, y'know, abortion is the taking of a human life).
Why would you pose that hypothetical when you don't support abortion lol?
Why does it matter? Does the religion of the person you're arguing change what is written in the Bible?
False.
The whole Torah/Old Testament is what a lot of Christians use to make their moral arguments.
A lot of pro-lifers don't actually read the Bible.
Lol nice one. I mean, I suppose true Christians do believe in treating people nicely.
Yes you are legally and morally obliged to pay child support since the mother in most cases can’t afford to take care of the kid herself so men not paying child support is neglect of the kid.
So you do believe that men should be "forced" to have a child regardless of the financial burden that the child represents, whereas only women should have the "choice" to free themselves from that financial burden. Glad we clarified that.
Men can’t get pregnant bodily autonomy in case of abortion only applies to women because only we can actually get pregnant.
>all lives matter humanism spaghetti all over the thread (but only when it comes to fetuses)
Why is it inconsistent to believe that child rapists deserve the death penalty but children do not deserve to be killed merely for the convenience of the parents?
Why would it matter? What decent man whines about the child he helped create? If abortion is outlawed, then he should step up to the plate and help support her and the child. He knowingly created that risk by willingly sticking his penis into her, why does he get to welch out of his responsibility? Why do you put all of the onus on the woman, but cry like a bitch when it ends up falling on the man too?
Are you? Please examine yourself and make absolutely sure. I've seen someone on one of the Christian Reddits openly exclaim they'd even vote for Satan if it meant it would save the unborn. Please don't be that person.
But we are not discussing it or making laws anti-abortion laws from their perspective. The politicians who are attempting to make these laws are doing it from a largely Dominionist Christian belief. No other religious group gets as much say so as these, or is even as much considered.
Religion and pro-life? Did you not know that Christians helped push for Roe vs. Wade, that before this 'life begins at conception' stance, life was originally considered to begin at first quickening? The 'life begins at conception' was considered a fringe belief, mainly held by Catholics.
Dude, this is what Dominionism is leading you to. Do you even know how this sounds? It's an attempt at a grotesque and petty parody, a way for you to self-justify why they haven't yet bowed to your poorly thought out arguments. If you really think abortion is a sin, wouldn't it be better to reason to them like an adult instead of calling them pejoratives and being insulting?
I am pointing out an inconsistency in the "pro-choice" stance. Obviously, I believe fathers are obligated to support their children. I also happen to believe mothers are obligated not to kill them. When it comes to those who consider themselves "pro-choice," though, what they actually mean is that they only favor the choice of the woman when it comes to parenthood. If a woman lies about or uses contraception irresponsibly, for instance, and the man feels that he is not ready for a child yet? Too bad, it's still her choice and hers alone, because male agency does not matter to these people.
So you are not. What a shocker. At least you are not the type of (((Christian))) who claims to be one while endorsing practices like abortion.
Anti-abortion sentiment stems primarily from the belief that a fetus is a child. Religion is entirely incidental to this primary belief. It doesn't matter how hard you try to drag religion into the issue; the fact will always remain that even atheists believe killing children is wrong in effectively all cases.
And there are many, many Christians (or people who claim to be """Christians,""" at least) today who condone gay marriage. They are also wrong and I don't value their viewpoints any more than I would yours.
No one I am arguing with is going to change their minds on account of anything I post in this thread, no matter how nasty or how nice, no matter how articulate or how lazy. Including you.
