The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[snailslime]

What evidence is there that an infant possesses self awareness?

Brain scans.

As I suspected. I will thus assume that everyone in this thread claiming to be a woman is actually a man, probably a larping tranny, because it is convenient for my pre-conceived biases to assume that they are lying.

You're a man who's upset that you can't control women.

A zygote is a person.

Not any more than period blood is.

I would ask you the same. When asked what qualifies an infant for personhood but not a fetus, you literally have no answer besides "because it just does."

We went over this multiple times, you're just being obtuse.

If you acknowledge that murdering babies for financial convenience is wrong, then I don't see what your point is. If it is justified to abort babies for financial convenience while in the womb, why would it be wrong outside of it? Likewise, if we posit that murdering babies for financial convenience is wrong after the baby has been born, why would it suddenly be okay before?

Good thing it's not murdering babies.

As always, the core issue is simply whether a fetus is a person, and this whinging about gibs is irrelevant stupidity.

We went over this.

This is why I don't argue the faith with non-believers.

Some of us are believers, you just hate being proven wrong.

A fetus is a genetically distinct individual of the human species. If you tested the DNA in its tissue, it will be different from that of the mother.

Duh.

Sperm and eggs on their own are not such individuals. If this were true, every man would be a mass murderer in the hundred of billions simply by existing, as that's how many sperm cells an average man generates over his lifetime (each ejaculation alone contains millions of sperm). The entire female population of the planet all carrying a single man's children at once would still barely even leave a dent in this number.

Why are you against abortion then.

An infant can't survive on its own either. "It hasn't been born" is an actual difference between a fetus and a child, yes. It is not apparent why this makes it okay to kill a person at the pre-birth stage of development but not post-birth.

It's sentient and capable of suffering. A fetus is not.

 

[gang weeder]

SENTIENCE, dipshit.

Define sentience. Otherwise this is no different from saying "because I say so."

 

[Lord Edge of Leetworth]

Define sentience. Otherwise this is no different from saying "because I say so."

BREH

 

[Lurker]

Define sentience. Otherwise this is no different from saying "because I say so."

read a fucking dictionary, holy SHIT you are fucking stupid.

 

[snailslime]

Define sentience. Otherwise this is no different from saying "because I say so."

how do i know you're sentient and not just a brain dead vegetable? because you argue like one

 

[PenneHead]

I think aside from having debates on whether or not a fetus is a human baby or not I think we should focus more on how people plan to get rid of an unwanted baby and treatment of unwanted babies.

what are the solutions to helping people who don’t want babies but are legally forced to have them?

 

[gang weeder]

read a fucking dictionary, holy SHIT you are fucking stupid.

dictionary.com "sentient": having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.

Even bugs have the power of perception by the senses, so we can discard that.

"conscious": aware of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.

There is no evidence that infants are "conscious" in this sense any more than animals or, again, insects. Do you think it is okay to kill an infant?

I think aside from having debates on whether or not a fetus is a human baby or not I think we should focus more on how people plan to get rid of an unwanted baby and treatment of unwanted babies.

what are the solutions to helping people who don’t want babies but are legally forced to have them?

Adoption or foster care. Certainly not murder of the child. Although if you have a different suggestion from these two options I'd actually be quite curious to hear it.

 

[snailslime]

Do you think it is okay to kill an infant?

no.

 

[Lord Edge of Leetworth]

no.

Shut up I fucking love infanticide.

 

[Lurker]

dictionary.com "sentient": having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.

Even bugs have the power of perception by the senses, so we can discard that.

"conscious": aware of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.

There is no evidence that infants are "conscious" in this sense any more than animals or, again, insects. Do you think it is okay to kill an infant?



Adoption or foster care. Certainly not murder of the child. Although if you have a different suggestion from these two options I'd actually be quite curious to hear it.

these questions have already been answered several times, learn how to read.

 

[gang weeder]

these questions have already been answered several times, learn how to read.

So you have no further answer then? Infants aren't conscious. Is it okay to kill an infant? If not, then how can "it's not conscious" be a good excuse to kill a fetus? People in comas aren't conscious either. If you had a person in a coma who you knew was going to wake up and be conscious in a few months, would it be okay to kill that person?

 

[Lurker]

So you have no further answer then? Infants aren't conscious. Is it okay to kill an infant? If not, then how can "it's not conscious" be a good excuse to kill a fetus? People in comas aren't conscious either. If you had a person in a coma who you knew was going to wake up and be conscious in a few months, would it be okay to kill that person?

it's literally impossible to explain to you how fetuses and infants are different, because you're being intentionally obtuse, or you're fucking retarded. you continue to conflate these two things to, in my opinion, muddy the argument. you know you're arguing in bad faith, yet you continue to do so. why?

 

[snailslime]

So you have no further answer then? Infants aren't conscious.

they are

Is it okay to kill an infant? If not, then how can "it's not conscious" be a good excuse to kill a fetus? People in comas aren't conscious either. If you had a person in a coma who you knew was going to wake up and be conscious in a few months, would it be okay to kill that person?

this is not even close to the topic of abortion.

 

[gang weeder]

it's literally impossible to explain to you how fetuses and infants are different, because you're being intentionally obtuse, or you're fucking retarded. you continue to conflate these two things to, in my opinion, muddy the argument. you know you're arguing in bad faith, yet you continue to do so. why?

It does seem to be literally impossible for you to explain it, yes. Maybe that is because your viewpoint is incoherent? You are utterly unable to give a satisfying answer or explanation of how an infant is a person and a fetus isn't. The closest you got was "conscious," which I pulled for you by implication, and still fails as there is no evidence an infant is conscious any more than an animal is. If this causes a glitch in your NPC programming forcing you to divert to personal attacks, maybe you should reconsider your beliefs.

 

[Lord Edge of Leetworth]

It does seem to be literally impossible for you to explain it, yes. Maybe that is because your viewpoint is incoherent? You are utterly unable to give a satisfying answer or explanation of how an infant is a person and a fetus isn't. The closest you got was "conscious," which I pulled for you by implication, and still fails as there is no evidence an infant is conscious any more than an animal is. If this causes a glitch in your NPC programming forcing you to divert to personal attacks, maybe you should reconsider your beliefs.

Are NPCs sentient?

 

[RustedPeacock]

what are the solutions to helping people who don’t want babies but are legally forced to have them?

By not having one? If people can embrace the concept how fertilization occurs they surely know how to prevent this by not having sex or not dumping cum into someone's vagina.

There is no evidence that infants are "conscious" in this sense any more than animals or, again, insects. Do you think it is okay to kill an infant?

I think it is okay if you are doing something according to your internal moral compass. You can't force someone to have a child simply because you consider fetus as human being while mother thinks otherwise.
Also, I think question raised in thread isn't about infants but fetuses because I am sure that nowhere you can legally kill an infant.

Are NPCs sentient?

Only the one's with good stash.

 

[The Cunting Death]

Leviticus 19:18 Love thy neighbor.
You should know this shit, so act like it.

add Matthew 7:21 too

 

[Kermit Jizz]

What evidence is there that an infant possesses self awareness?

They probably don't have it, but there is a 0% chance before they've developed a significant portion of their brain (so a like 2-3 months gestation) that they have self awareness. You have to designate a cutoff somewhere so it makes sense to put it before there is any chance they've developed awareness. By the time you're out of the womb that chance is nonzero so don't risk it.

Define sentience. Otherwise this is no different from saying "because I say so."

Something you clearly haven't developed, so I think we can safely abort you.

I think aside from having debates on whether or not a fetus is a human baby or not I think we should focus more on how people plan to get rid of an unwanted baby and treatment of unwanted babies.

what are the solutions to helping people who don’t want babies but are legally forced to have them?

People will naturally want children so we just have to make it feasible by fixing the economy. Things have gotten so bad having 2 kids, the bare minimum for population maintenance, can knock you from mid class living to poverty. That's fucking insane and the biggest symptom that we live in a dead nigger country.

 

[gang weeder]

I think it is okay if you are doing something according to your internal moral compass. You can't force someone to have a child simply because you consider fetus as human being while mother thinks otherwise.

"okay according to your internal moral compass" clearly does not pass the sniff pass. Plenty of people have an "internal moral compass" which tells them it is okay to do all kinds of horrific things. We typically prevent them from committing those acts anyways, when we can. Is this really the best you can come up with? "Muh internal moral compass says it's okay" is just a fancier way of saying "because it just is/because I said so."

They probably don't have it, but there is a 0% chance before they've developed a significant portion of their brain (so a like 2-3 months gestation) that they have self awareness. You have to designate a cutoff somewhere so it makes sense to put it before there is any chance they've developed awareness. By the time you're out of the womb that chance is nonzero so don't risk it.

This is pure speculation, given that it is impossible to actually communicate with either a fetus or an infant in language. You thus cannot posit that a baby might be self-aware any more than you could a cat or a dog. Likewise, if animals might be self-aware, you would not be able to rule out the possibility that fetuses might be, nor make any determination of "when" they are. The evidence for all of these is the same, as the behavior displayed by an infant is not any more indicative of self-awareness than that of a cat or a dog.

 

[Kermit Jizz]

This is pure speculation, given that it is impossible to actually communicate with either a fetus or an infant in language. You thus cannot posit that a baby might be self-aware any more than you could a cat or a dog. Likewise, if animals might be self-aware, you would not be able to rule out the possibility that fetuses might be, nor make any determination of "when" they are. The evidence for all of these is the same, as the behavior displayed by an infant is not any more indicative of self-awareness than that of a cat or a dog.

This is literally just retarded cope. You're using your ignorance as an argument. That's really dumb.