The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Android raptor]

There's another thing that is very rare.

It's actually not, but that's another thing you'd have to have experience with women to know.

I like the kind of coping you see in this thread, stuff like "Oh, children used to die all the time in olden times, so therefore abortion now is A-ok" or gems like "It's unethical to force a woman to give birth". Literally how hard is it to wrap your heads around just not having sex all the goddamn time, and facing the consequences of your actions? This is fucking pathetic. You're like children who just CAN'T keep their hands out of a cookie jar. Just because we used to burn people by accusing them of being 'witches', does that mean that it's okay to burn random people alive nowadays for the same reason? And nobody's forcing someone to give birth, child-bearing, nurturing, giving birth and being a mother are the ultimate results of sex. Don't like it? Don't have it. Slaughtering unborn children because you're too stupid and lack the self discipline to keep it in your pants is one of the most baseline retarded things I've ever seen.

So married couples that don't want children or don't want any more children shouldn't have sex?

"Slaughtering unborn children" ya'll make abortion sound way more metal than it actually is. Though I suppose when you have an abortion it might look like you slaughtered a child since that shit is basically a heavy period and I think anyone that knows about menstruation knows that heavy flow days can look like a damn crime scene. But it's a lot less exciting than that. You take some pills, feel like shit, pass what looks more like a heavy period than anything else (including a blueberry sized or smaller fetus), and get on with your life. No children are slaughtered, no fetuses are dismembered, or whatever other crazy shit prolifers believe.

Having to get and pay for an abortion is a consequence. It might not be the specific consequence you think women should be forced to endure, but it's still a consequence. That shit ain't cheap (though it's still way less expensive than having a damn kid).

Thinking women should be forced to got through pregnancy and childbirth (which again, can fucking kill you) says more about what you think of women than anything else. That you think women deserve potential death or serious injury for daring to have a sexuality. And on top of that, it also brings a whole new person into the equation that's going to suffer just because someone hates women. You don't actually give a damn about kids if you think they should be forced into an existence where they aren't wanted and are likely only going to be neglected or worse.

Really wish there was a way to force prolife men to gestate the unwanted embryos they supposedly care so much about. I think the results would be fascinating.

 

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

Question: do you pro life folks care about the high rate of black women getting abortions, or is it ok so long as it's not white women?

Because, you know, that would defeat the purpose of claiming to be pro life.

 

[Lemmingwise]

It's actually not, but that's another thing you'd have to have experience with women to know.

It just seems common to you because you're dry as sand.

I've only ever encountered one woman who had this problem and that's how I know it is rare. Plenty of comparison.

I really don't know where you get the idea.

It may be more of a problem in the US because circumcised penises scoop out the natural lubricant, whereas a foreskin kindof acts like a stopper. Or maybe the women around you are autistic and not in touch with their bodies?

Or are we talking women that are 35+ because I'll admit my experience is limited in that area.

Oh wait you're a lesbian right? Maybe women just don't get hot quite the same way to you.

 

[Android raptor]

Question: do you pro life folks care about the high rate of black women getting abortions, or is it ok so long as it's not white women?

Because, you know, that would defeat the purpose of claiming to be pro life.

And even if they do care, are they willing the address the reasons why so many black women abort (i.e. poverty), or do they just want to force black women to gestate and birth kids they don't have the resources to care for?

Are they also willing to address the fact that black women are at particularly high risk of dying from pregnancy and childbirth?

It just seems common to you because you're dry as sand.

I've only ever encountered one woman who had this problem and that's how I know it is rare.

I really don't know where you get the idea.

It may be more of a problem in the US because circumcised penises scoop out the natural lubricant, whereas a foreskin kinda of acts like a stopper. Or maybe the women around you are autistic and not in touch with their bodies?

Or are we talking women that are 35+ because I'll admit my experience is limited in that area.

Oh wait you're a lesbian right? Maybe women just don't get hot quite the same way to you.

Nah I actually don't have too many problems in that area, though some of my friends do. There are lots of things that can cause it including, surprise surprise, childbirth. If nothing else sometimes it's just the physics of the specific parts involved in the situation. The average vagina has a depth of like, what, 4 inches? If a dude has a freaky monster dong all the natural lube in the world might not be enough to get it to fit, necessitating the use of store bought.

Again, it's really not that uncommon of an issue, but you might not know that if you don't know many women.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Question: do you pro life folks care about the high rate of black women getting abortions, or is it ok so long as it's not white women?

Because, you know, that would defeat the purpose of claiming to be pro life.

I care more about the one that the other, but they're both morally wrong.

I expect a black pro-life person, if I ever meet one, to say the same.

 

[ADHD]

The average vagina has a depth of like, what, 4 inches?

Yeah, but it can change.

The vagina’s size and depth changes in certain situations. It can stretch to accommodate the insertion of a tampon, a finger, or a penis.

During arousal, more blood flows to the vagina. This causes the vagina to elongate and the cervix, or tip of the uterus, to lift up slightly, allowing more of a penis, finger, or sex toy to fit in the vagina.

The average erect penis is about 33 percent longer than the average vagina. While both penis and vagina sizes can vary, these organs can usually accommodate each other.

A 2015 study found the average erect penis length to be just over 5 inches (13.12 cm). Some women may report discomfort if their sexual partner has a penis that is larger than average.

It may be painful or uncomfortable if an object such as a penis or sex toy hits the cervix. Having adequate lubrication and communicating any discomfort to a partner can help keep sexual activity pleasurable.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I believe abortion should be legal and I am personally pro-abortion and nothing will sway my views on that. I think this whole debate is pointless.

 

[Android raptor]

Yeah, but it can change.

True, though sometimes theres still issues even with that. You just have to figure shit out, take it slow, and not be afraid to use lube if you have to.

Lube exists for way more than just buttsex.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Nah I actually don't have too many problems in that area, though some of my friends do. There are lots of things that can cause it

Yeah, like having an autistic partner, because it causes Cassandra phenomenon.

When a woman has a partner that is poor at reading her emotions, she can be incorrectly assumed to be aroused when she is not at all yet.

It's also when women make poor choice of partner (say someone that is rich or socially secure, but not attractive). Those are the not so polite (but more truthful) ways of expressing what you linked there.

 

[Android raptor]

Yeah, like having an autistic partner, because it causes Cassandra phenomenon.

When a woman has a partner that is poor at reading her emotions, she can be incorrectly assumed to be aroused when she is not at all yet.

It's also when women make poor choice of partner (say someone that is rich or socially secure, but not attractive). Those are the not so polite (but more truthful) ways of expressing what you linked there.

Or if the partner either doesn't know how to or doesn't care about pleasing women. Especially if they think penetration alone should be good enough and that anything beyond that is deviancy.

Though sometimes it's nothing to do with any of that. I think lots of people underestimate how much hormones alone can fuck shit up, and how pregnancy and childbirth can change body chemistry permanently. I didn't even know that myself until some of my friends who've had kids explained it to me.

I'm not sure why that book tries to link Autism and personality disorders. They have nothing to do with each other beyond autistic people being at higher risk of developing BPD and other PDs related to trauma. Judging by the description and reviews it sounds like it was written by someone that just wanting to whine about autistic people existing while having an extremely poor concept of what autism actually is (I actually wonder if the author is NPD and projecting their issues onto their partner, I definitely get a bit of a possible narc vibe from the description and reviews).

The women I personally know who have issues getting wet are all straight or bi, one of whom has had a kid. So if you're trying to make a dig at me and my experiences, sorry. I have the sex drive of a rock anyway (thanks antidepressants).

But keep on thinking you know more about women's bodies than they do, and that the only possible reason they could have for having issues getting wet is because they're fucking rich autists instead of nice guys like you. Thank you, random man on a shitposting forum that can't tell the difference between an embryo and a baby.

How the fuck did we even get on this topic in the first place? Oh yeah, because some dude was trying to say buttsex is wrong and unnatural because you need lube for it. Thank you, sex experts at kiwi farms.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Or if the partner either doesn't know how to or doesn't care about pleasing women.

That's the same thing as I said. Poor choice of partner.

The plumbing works fine, you just have to not put a monkey behind the controls.

Sorry that your friends can only find shitty lovers.

I'm not sure why that book tries to link Autism and personality disorders

Because being in a romantic relationship with an autistic person can cause cassandra phenomenon.

To express it in basic terms the autistic person doesn't sense your emotions like a normal person would. It causes a kind of disconnect similar to cassandra complex, the myth of the woman who could see the futute but nobody would believe her. In this case it's emotions that go unacknowledged and the disorders that can cause over a prolonged period.

it sounds like it was written by someone that just wanting to whine about autistic people existing

This is a pretty autistic response ngl

 

[Android raptor]

That's the same thing as I said. Poor choice of partner.

The plumbing works fine, you just have to not put a monkey behind the controls.

Sorry that your friends can only find shitty lovers.

My friends actually have fine lovers, it's just that like that article talked about it can be caused by many things including hormones and meds. Lots of my friends have had kids or have other hormonal issues, and pretty much all of them are on meds.

Because being in a romantic relationship with an autistic person can cause cassandra phenomenon.

To express it in basic terms the autistic person doesn't sense your emotions like a normal person would. It causes a kind of disconnect similar to cassandra complex, the myth of the woman who could see the futute but nobody would believe her. In this case it's emotions that go unacknowledged and the disorders that can cause over a prolonged period.


This is a pretty autistic response ngl

Narcissists also like to project like goddamn IMAXs and scapegoat others. A disability like autism makes it easier for a narc to scapegoat and manipulate someone. Personally I think some narcs actually seek out autistic and other disabled people because they know they're easy targets. Disabled people are actually at higher risk of abuse than non-disabled people, presumably for that reason.

Lord only knows I spent my formative years watching my mom pull that shit.

I feel like you've only been with a few women and are deciding it must be an extremely rare issues because only one of the girls you were with had it. No idea why you keep insisting the only possible cause is a woman not being into her partner when even dr google can tell you many things can cause it. You do not know more about women's bodies than women themselves just because you've slept with 2 or 3.

Damn dudes here really acting like they're experts on both fetal development and women's sexuality, what would us lady folk do without them

 

[Lemmingwise]

pretty much all of them are on meds

Gee, I wonder why their bodies aren't behaving normally.

But please mother goddess of female bodies, tell me more about how being sandpaper in bed is super common for young women.

 

[Android raptor]

Gee, I wonder why their bodies aren't behaving normally.

But please mother goddess of female bodies, tell me more about how being sandpaper in bed is common for women.

So my friends shouldn't take their meds for everything from allergies to mental illness? Shit, I think vaginal dryness can even be a side effect of birth control for some women. Should those women just go off their birth control (and be at greater risk of unwanted pregnancies and thus more likely to have abortions oh no)?

Wild how me mentioning that I know a few people that need lube for vaginal sex and that vaginal dryness is a fairly common issue women deal with has turned into this whole crazy tangent.

ANYWAY back on part of the original point I still say prolife dude should get some surprise reach around butt stuff next BJ until they learn that consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy. Though honestly to be truly comparable to childbirth it would be less a finger up the ass and more like a giant horsecock or one of those ridiculously huge dildos furries get or some shit.

 

[Nom Carver]

It's actually not, but that's another thing you'd have to have experience with women to know.

So married couples that don't want children or don't want any more children shouldn't have sex?

"Slaughtering unborn children" ya'll make abortion sound way more metal than it actually is. Though I suppose when you have an abortion it might look like you slaughtered a child since that shit is basically a heavy period and I think anyone that knows about menstruation knows that heavy flow days can look like a damn crime scene. But it's a lot less exciting than that. You take some pills, feel like shit, pass what looks more like a heavy period than anything else (including a blueberry sized or smaller fetus), and get on with your life. No children are slaughtered, no fetuses are dismembered, or whatever other crazy shit prolifers believe.

Having to get and pay for an abortion is a consequence. It might not be the specific consequence you think women should be forced to endure, but it's still a consequence. That shit ain't cheap (though it's still way less expensive than having a damn kid).

Thinking women should be forced to got through pregnancy and childbirth (which again, can fucking kill you) says more about what you think of women than anything else. That you think women deserve potential death or serious injury for daring to have a sexuality. And on top of that, it also brings a whole new person into the equation that's going to suffer just because someone hates women. You don't actually give a damn about kids if you think they should be forced into an existence where they aren't wanted and are likely only going to be neglected or worse.

Really wish there was a way to force prolife men to gestate the unwanted embryos they supposedly care so much about. I think the results would be fascinating.

Sex = Risk of child
No sex = No risk of child
Refer to this chart for complex(TM) decision making in the future.

Don't like it? Then fucking deal with it and find better things to do with your time. You had sex and ended up pregnant? Well unless you have a good reason like it being rape or the birth being potentially fatal to you, then congrats now you get to feel the consequences of your own conscious actions.

 

[Zarael]

Yeah ok bruh, it's not like a ton of people have said "when higher brain functions start."

Noble of you to define personhood in a way that excludes yourself.

"When higher brain functions start" is an incredibly vague way to define the line between "It's ok to kill this biological human" and "It's not ok to kill this biological human". Can you actually give a specific time here or do doctors just play it by ear. Fetuses can respond to stimuli in the first trimester so it's very likely any criteria you use to define "higher brain function" that would include a newly born infant would also include first trimester pregnancies. It's the same issue for people who say you need to have consciousness to be a person. How do you measure consciousness? You can't even be 100% sure that other people aren't p-zombies, why would you draw such a fuzzy line when it comes to one of the most important moral issues, under what circumstances is it ok to kill a human being and the answer for pro-abortionists seems to be "If I poke it with a stick and am not satisfied it cried loud enough"

 

[artilleryfroth]

And this is one reason we have sex toys. Women, I encourage you to check out “the leaf”. OMG.

 

[Android raptor]

Sex = Risk of child
No sex = No risk of child
Refer to this chart for complex(TM) decision making in the future.

Don't like it? Then fucking deal with it and find better things to do with your time. You had sex and ended up pregnant? Well unless you have a good reason like it being rape or the birth being potentially fatal to you, then congrats now you get to feel the consequences of your own conscious actions.

I take it you don't have sex unless you're prepared to care for a child?

Having to pay for an abortion is a consequence. It might not be the specific one you want women to suffer, but it's still a consequence.

I bet the idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're prepared for a kid because yeeting an embryo is so horrible will go over real well with married couple that don't want kids or are done having them.

Noble of you to define personhood in a way that excludes yourself.

"When higher brain functions start" is an incredibly vague way to define the line between "It's ok to kill this biological human" and "It's not ok to kill this biological human". Can you actually give a specific time here or do doctors just play it by ear. Fetuses can respond to stimuli in the first trimester so it's very likely any criteria you use to define "higher brain function" that would include a newly born infant would also include first trimester pregnancies. It's the same issue for people who say you need to have consciousness to be a person. How do you measure consciousness? You can't even be 100% sure that other people aren't p-zombies, why would you draw such a fuzzy line when it comes to one of the most important moral issues, under what circumstances is it ok to kill a human being and the answer for pro-abortionists seems to be "If I poke it with a stick and aren't satisfied it cried loud enough"

A first trimester embryo/fetus is absolutely not as conscious or developed as a newborn. Shit, even into the second trimester shit is a work in progress, idk if it's true but I remembering hearing some shit like super premies don't have the ability to feel pain and shit because that doesnt develop until late in the game.

Also brain dead and people in vegetative states get yanked from life support all the time. Jahi McMath and Terri Shiavo were such clusterfucks because their insane family members refused to pull the plug even though they basically died years ago (hell Jahi McMath literally died in 2013 because brain death IS death).

There's actually a coma scale someone posted in Tard Baby recently used to evaluate conciousness and brain damage severity.

 

[Lemmingwise]

So my friends shouldn't take their meds for everything from allergies to mental illness? Shit, I think vaginal dryness can even be a side effect of birth control for some women. Should those women just go off their birth control (and be at greater risk of unwanted pregnancies and thus more likely to have abortions oh no)?

Wild how me mentioning that I know a few people that need lube for vaginal sex and that vaginal dryness is a fairly common issue women deal with has turned into this whole crazy tangent.

ANYWAY back on part of the original point I still say prolife dude should get some surprise reach around butt stuff next BJ until they learn that consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy. Though honestly to be truly comparable to childbirth it would be less a finger up the ass and more like a giant horsecock or one of those ridiculously huge dildos furries get or some shit.

Yes, birth control is terrible for women's bodies and for a number of reasons.

I tend to be more interested in the emotional and psychosocial effects and the fact that women are attracted to different men when on or off bc pill is horrible for everyone involved. Back in the day you could find plenty of blogs of women that gone off the pill and no longer found their boyfriend/husband attractive. Heartwrenching stuff. Pretty sure there has been a study on it as well.

Antidepressants pretty much kill libido most of the time, and birth control does the same to a good percentage of women.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that all women on birth control is polluting water with female hormones, which seems to be one of the contributing factors to the last 5 decades of rapidly declining sperm quality.

So yes, if people are heavily medicated, it is not a surprise their bodies don't exactly function naturally.

And yes, women that care about their health are better off going off birth control pill. There are better ways of preventing pregnancies anyways. I know that rattles your biggest fears, but considering you have a deathly fear of pregnancy while not having heterosexual sex, I think it is safe to say it's not exactly a very rational fear.

Why would anyone subject their body to such an unnatural hormone cocktail anyways? You're not even the same person while on them. How can an orgasm here and there be worth such a cost?

Though I do admit your autism is fun to read. I'll probably never forget that somebody claimed that taking horsecock is as natural as childbirth or the surprise that being heavily medicated may be the reason your friends have some issues with their plumbing. It is starting to feel a bit cruel as you desperately try to redirect attention to how much you'd like to peg the guy that doesn't like anal.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Late to this, but too bad for y’all, so here’s my biased opinion.

If a female person and a male person have sex, no matter what precautions they use, they both are consenting to the risk of a pregnancy, because there is no 100% safe contraceptive other than being celibate, being homosexual, or doing it back-to-back.

The woman gets to decide whether to continue the pregnancy because it is her body and life that are on the line. Pregnancy and childbirth are dangerous and debilitating.

However I think the man should also have an “out” where if he doesn’t want a child, and discovers he has impregnated someone, he can complete a legal form and have no responsibility towards the eventual child in future ever. If the woman doesn’t contact him during the pregnancy so that he can get this organised, he retains the right to do so within a reasonable time (maybe a month) after she claims money from him.

Why can’t we all do something like this..?

That would just encourage fatherlessness, which would actively harm the children-- just in a different way than killing them in the womb.

The father must be responsible for his child, barring an arrangement for adoption. Leaving a child to single motherhood is abhorrent, and it's his fault the woman became pregnant in the first place.

Question: do you pro life folks care about the high rate of black women getting abortions, or is it ok so long as it's not white women?

Because, you know, that would defeat the purpose of claiming to be pro life.

I don't know what you're driving at. My first issue is that you make some presumption that pro-lifers are uniformly white. My second is that you presume that this means that they're selective about the application of this view (and consequently, they're being dishonest in their arguments).

It's as if you want to have firm opinions but you don't actually sense any solid foundation for them, so you have to paint your interlocutors as racists or at least selectively apathetic and morally inconsistent, even though there wouldn't be any prevailing reason or gain for them to be so and deceive you about it. We had someone-- either satirically or not-- talk about how abortion was a good thing inasmuch as it happened within the black community. It's highly unlikely anybody's hiding anything from you regarding their views.

And even if they do care, are they willing the address the reasons why so many black women abort (i.e. poverty)

Poor people have children. The issue isn't poverty-- it's culture, and in particular, the fact that abortion outside of saving lives is presumably not entirely seen as beyond the pale.

Given that I've actually discussed in this thread how the disproportionate abortion rates in the black community-- juxtaposed with other cultural issues such as fatherlessness-- work to rob them of community stability as well as political bargaining power (which leads to greater neglect, which contributes to poverty), your lazy alignment of abortion rates with poverty to manufacture new ad hom while you attempt to figure out a new way to keep fresh your syphilitic "lmao u r extra virgin" retort is anemic.

The way the rank-and-file pro-choice proponents approach this conversation could almost be humorous.

"You wanna force women to have babies!"
"Don't you know that two percent of women in the States die in pregnancy or labor?"
"Abortion isn't currently legally murder, so they're A-OK."
"Even though the fetus is half me, and I did the one thing capable of conceiving it, I didn't consent for it to be in my body!"
"I know you said sex is primarily about reproduction, but sex isn't just about reproduction!"
"You're making abortion sound metal..."
"You probably a racist that only cares about white babies being aborted..."
"It just ends up coming out as a pool of blood, so it's not like you're killing a baby..."
"You're an incel virgin that doesn't know the first thing about women and wants them to be baby factories!"
"You should get a finger up your butt the next time you have a blowjob because you think sex entails reproduction!"
"No uterus, no opinion!" --> "You're actually a woman? Well, you do you, and let me do me!"

I have yet to meet incels that are pro-life because they want women to be baby factories, though I'm sure they technically exist. Though, I've spoken with people who would Heisenberg their own children, and people who are honest-to-God pro-abortion while identifying as pro-choice. I don't mean that in a cutesy "pro-lifers are fetiphobic!"-- I mean they will devalue the woman's autonomy at a drop of a hat if it means an aborted fetus.

A first trimester embryo/fetus is absolutely not as conscious or developed as a newborn.

And a newborn is not as conscious or developed as an adult.