The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

My point is that if the issue is actually "bodily autonomy", then it would be fine to go full throttle and remove every occasion for a third party to be involved in one's abortion. There'd be no need to talk about "abortion access" (by way of surgeons) or abortifacents. It would in fact be okay for states to make laws that prohibit abortion services within their borders...

...but the actual crisis would come when trying to mandate that women can't take matters into their own hands.

That's completely retarded. If one has body autonomy, then one can hire someone to perform services on their body.

 

[Vulva Gape]

You prolife tards put more emphasis on a zygote than a living, breathing, feeling woman.

Also if life begins at conception, you know the uterus kills half of the fertilized eggs naturally. So your momma is a murderer and you'll get to meet your uterus spawn killed siblings in the afterlife.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

You prolife tards put more emphasis on a zygote than a living, breathing, feeling woman.

Maybe if you have as much capability for nuance as someone with BPD, yeah.

Also if life begins at conception, you know the uterus kills half of the fertilized eggs naturally. So your momma is a murderer

Yeah... if she induced those occurrences.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

Also if life begins at conception, you know the uterus kills half of the fertilized eggs naturally. So your momma is a murderer and you'll get to meet your uterus spawn killed siblings in the afterlife.

Murder is an act of commission, not a natural process. A lot of twin pregnancies result in one embryo withering on the vine as the other takes up the majority of the nutrients until finally the runt can't keep up. That doesn't make the survivor a murderer anymore than it makes the runt a victim.

 

[Vulva Gape]

Well, maybe you should read tard baby. If they were aborted the child's suffering could have been ended.

I don't think being "alive" is special. Bacteria are alive. Having your own genome doesn't make you special, the woman who's body you inhabit has the final say.

The question is, there will always be women who want to abort pregnancies, for any reason, even in your prolife utopia where all women are consenting to having a child and no rape occurs. Women will change their mind, rethink things, or their financial situation will change. What would the punishment be for a woman who goes for a backalley abortion? If it is murder, would it be treated the same? Just asking because I'm curious, not for debate.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

I don't think being "alive" is special. Bacteria are alive. Having your own genome doesn't make you special, the woman who's body you inhabit has the final say.

Bacteria and all forms of life that aren't human aren't at issue here. It's not the possession of a genome that makes a human special, it's the fact that they're in possession of a human genome. This is what I don't understand about the pro-abortion side - there's all these accusations that pro-lifers "don't care about women" when representatives from the other side are blatant nihilists and misanthropes.

The question is, there will always be women who want to abort pregnancies, for any reason, even in your prolife utopia where all women are consenting to having a child and no rape occurs. Women will change their mind, rethink things, or their financial situation will change. What would the punishment be for a woman who goes for a backalley abortion? If it is murder, would it be treated the same?

If the law says it's murder what do you think the treatment ought to be? Should a certain class of murderer be given consideration over others? The judges and juries would be free to (and I imagine in a lot of cases ultimately would) exercise leniency given this or that extenuating circumstance, which I have no problem with. I'm not a "mandatory minimums" kind of person because I do believe that circumstances differ and that ought to be taken into consideration.

I'd still like to see people who are ending human lives unnecessarily (ie. no rape, no incest, no imminent risk to the mother's safety) held to account, though. Head to court and plead your case with every other murderer. It's only fair.

 

[Muh Vagina]

I'd still like to see people who are ending human lives unnecessarily

It's not unnecessary for the pregnant woman. You don't get to decide that.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

It's not unnecessary for the pregnant woman. You don't get to decide that.

Laws are largely concerned with telling people what they can and can't do, whether they feel its necessary or not. A rapist might just have to get his dick wet, like he's going to die if he doesn't steal just a pinch of pussy. Should we just say "boys will be boys" and carry on?

 

[Zarael]

Also if life begins at conception, you know the uterus kills half of the fertilized eggs naturally. So your momma is a murderer and you'll get to meet your uterus spawn killed siblings in the afterlife.

This is a tremendously retarded argument. All people die therefore giving birth is murder? It should be self evident that the result of natural biological processes is not equivalent to someone utilizing their agency to evoke the same effect. If I have a heart attack it's not morally equivalent to you injecting me with a chemical that induces a heart attack. Very, very obvious but your post iks a good example of who pro-abortion arguments are so superficial. You didn't think this through at all, you just posted the first "gotcha" that popped into your head. I wouldn't be so annoyed at pro-abortion advocates if it wasn't so obvious you haven't really thought through your position and keep grasping at straws to justify your position post-hoc while being smug about it.

The question is, there will always be women who want to abort pregnancies

Murder is wrong. I don't deny there will always be people who want to kill other human beings but I'm yet to see a compelling argument why "there are people who will want to do it" justifies legalizing the killing of human beings. Another terrible argument.

If it is murder, would it be treated the same?

Ideally yes. The exact same logic that applies to any parent who decides their 3 month old is more trouble than its worth and decides to end its existence. Is there any good reason to treat the two differently? Apart from the argument of bodily autonomy which is not really that good I don't see one.

 

[The Jokester]

You prolife tards put more emphasis on a zygote than a living, breathing, feeling woman.

Also if life begins at conception, you know the uterus kills half of the fertilized eggs naturally. So your momma is a murderer and you'll get to meet your uterus spawn killed siblings in the afterlife.

But that's not what we're arguing for, bright spark. I think everyone can agree that zygote is a bundle of cells but it is the basis of life. A natural cycle/miscarriage if a small cell is a little different than using utensils to literally crush a head the size of a plum and pulling out legs and arms.

When does life begin for you? Is the unborn child not alive when it licks or starts to suck it's thumb? Is it alive when the heart starts to beat it when the brain is functioning? Tell us when it goes from a clump of cells to a human being. But you can't really do that because humans ARE clumps of cells.

That's completely retarded. If one has body autonomy, then one can hire someone to perform services on their body.

But it's not just their body, is it? What body do you know that has two different heart beats? You sound like your retarded SJW cousins who say there's no such thing as biological sex but there's 58 genders

(Sorry for double posting)

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

But it's not just their body, is it? What body do you know that has two different heart beats? You sound like your retarded SJW cousins who say there's no such thing as biological sex but there's 58 genders

(Sorry for double posting)

You should be sorry for being such a retard instead

 

[Freya]

But that's not what we're arguing for, bright spark. I think everyone can agree that zygote is a bundle of cells but it is the basis of life. A natural cycle/miscarriage if a small cell is a little different than using utensils to literally crush a head the size of a plum and pulling out legs and arms.

When does life begin for you? Is the unborn child not alive when it licks or starts to suck it's thumb? Is it alive when the heart starts to beat it when the brain is functioning? Tell us when it goes from a clump of cells to a human being. But you can't really do that because humans ARE clumps of cells.

90% of abortions in the US are done basically when it's just a "small cell"

Abortions when the head is plum sized are rare

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

90% of abortions in the US are done basically when it's just a "small cell"

Abortions when the head is plum sized are rare

Yep and when those do happen, it's almost always because of medical emergency. No woman is going to have a pregnancy and go through with it and just decide to abort for the hell of it. If she's that far along, she's probably already got a name planned out for it and doesn't want to abort it

 

[Android raptor]

But that's not what we're arguing for, bright spark. I think everyone can agree that zygote is a bundle of cells but it is the basis of life. A natural cycle/miscarriage if a small cell is a little different than using utensils to literally crush a head the size of a plum and pulling out legs and arms.

As metal as that would be that's not even remotely how abortions are performed. Most embryos/fetuses don't even have arms or legs when they're aborted, or skulls the size of plums or whatever. Hell the whole fetus/embryo is maybe as big as a blueberry (or smaller) and you'd have to really dig through all the goop and blood to find it.

I know prolifers like to say all kinds of crazy shit about how 10 week old or younger fetuses are exactly the same as fully cooked babies only smaller, but it isn't true. And they're usually removed at home, by popping some pills that cause you to have what's more like a really heavy period than anything else (where again, you'd really have to dig and use a magnifying glass to find the embryo/fetus).

Even late term abortions, which again are rare and usually wanted pregnancies that went wrong, aren't performed that way. Iirc they give a fetus a shot to kill it, then induce labor. Most women afterwards want it intact to hold and grieve, because again these were almost certainly wanted pregnancies. I guess it might get dismembered if it's too FUBAR to remove naturally or it's already dead and rotting (removing a dead fetus is technically a form of abortion too), but that normally wouldn't be a thing because it probably wouldn't go over well with grieving mothers.

What's funny is a natural miscarriage early on is pretty much the exact same thing as a vast majority of abortions. Helll, the way the pills work is by more or less just inducing a miscarriage. So yeah, it really isn't any different than what naturally happens to a good chunk of fertilized eggs.

Come to Tard Baby, within the last month we've actually been having some good discussion on fetal development after we found some prolife propaganda site posting gross pics of dead fetuses and lying about how far along they were. Also the embryo coffin/cumjar site.

Damn prolifers posting about how they think abortions are done is like my edgyposting about how to kill babies because you couldn't abort them as fetuses.

Freya said:
I want to know why you would want an infant around a mentally ill person that has potentially violent tendencies

I don't. I would want her to stop being mentally ill and start having a healthy life.

That's uh, not how it works. I will be mentally ill til the day I die. The best I can do is keep up with treatment and make responsible choices. My life is actually probably the healthiest it's ever been, and not having any fucking kids is a huge part of why. Lots of people in group therapy aren't so lucky and on top of their existing mental illness/addiction they're also juggling kids and the knowledge of how they've fucked them up (and in many cases lost custody). Kids also force many people to stay in abusive relationships, in fact another common reason for abortion is leaving an abusive relationship.

I'm not actually exaggerating a whole lot with my edgyposting of what would happen if I was forced to have a kid. It would not be pretty and nothing good would happen for anyone (especially not the hypothetical kid).

Having kids doesn't magically transform a crazy person into a mentally stable person or a sociopath into someone capable of feeling guilt or remorse. Lots of times all it does is just give them one other thing making their illness worse or a new victim to abuse.

 

[Freya]

They really think women have abortions for fun

 

[Lemmingwise]

90% of abortions in the US are done basically when it's just a "small cell"

Abortions when the head is plum sized are rare

18% of american pregnancies result in abortion.
92% of abortions happen within 13 weeks.
(First brain function begins at about 7 weeks. It coincides with the first human fetal movement)

This means that 0.08*0.18 = 0.166

1.5% of pregnancies end in an abortion of human fetuses with functioning brain and nervous system.

There are about 600.000 abortions per year. This means that 600.000*0.08 = 48000 human fetuses with functioning brains are killed each year.

 

[Android raptor]

They really think women have abortions for fun

I mean don't you just love to blow off steam by going through 8+ months of pregnancy so you can then crush the skull and dismember an almost full term fetus? I thought that was women's favorite pastime after having unprotected sex with every man we see (especially the black ones), except of course random angry nerds on the internet.

18% of american pregnancies result in abortion.
92% of abortions happen within 13 weeks.
(First brain function begins at about 7 weeks. It coincides with the first human fetal movement)

This means that 0.08*0.18 = 0.166

1.5% of pregnancies end in an abortion of human fetuses with functioning brain and nervous system.

There are about 600.000 abortions per year. This means that 600.000*0.08 = 48000 human fetuses with functioning brains are killed each year.

I can assure you that a 7 week embryo does not have a fully formed human brain. At best it might have a little lizard stem capable of turning on a few reflexes. The brain especially takes a long-ass time to cook properly. Tard Baby is once again great reading material, since we see great examples of what happens when the brain doesn't cook properly.

 

[Rich Evans Apologist]

They really think women have abortions for fun

drywall contains chemicals that are not good for brain development, so people prone to punching it sometimes show signs of overexposure

 

[FEETLOAF]

You prolife tards put more emphasis on a zygote than a living, breathing, feeling woman.

If someone tried to murder the woman I would be exactly as outraged.

Also if life begins at conception, you know the uterus kills half of the fertilized eggs naturally. So your momma is a murderer and you'll get to meet your uterus spawn killed siblings in the afterlife.

Murder requires mens rea. Your uterus can't think or have intentions. That's just a tragic death, not murder.

Well, maybe you should read tard baby. If they were aborted the child's suffering could have been ended.

Some people do not believe that doing something evil like murder in order to reduce suffering is acceptable.

The question is, there will always be women who want to abort pregnancies, for any reason, even in your prolife utopia where all women are consenting to having a child and no rape occurs. Women will change their mind, rethink things, or their financial situation will change. What would the punishment be for a woman who goes for a backalley abortion? If it is murder, would it be treated the same?

Yes, absolutely. She is a murderer, put her on death row.

Bacteria and all forms of life that aren't human aren't at issue here. It's not the possession of a genome that makes a human special, it's the fact that they're in possession of a human genome. This is what I don't understand about the pro-abortion side - there's all these accusations that pro-lifers "don't care about women" when representatives from the other side are blatant nihilists and misanthropes.

They flow from moral absolutism to nihilism and back depending on how it suits their argument at the time and seem to have no conception that you can remember what they said two posts ago.

You don't get to decide that.

Why not?

There are about 600.000 abortions per year. This means that 600.000*0.08 = 48000 human fetuses with functioning brains are killed each year.

Another fun statistic: Less than 0.01% of those are due to medical complications, conceived through rape or incest, or are otherwise non-elective procedures. The other 99.99% of abortions in the US are simply "I don't want this human being to inconvenience my life, murder it for me please."


"Pro-choicers" are my favorite political lolcow. The shit they say is hilarious.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Another fun statistic: Less than 0.01% of those are due to medical complications, conceived through rape or incest,

Source? I've only done superficial research on abortion statistics. And the first things I encounter do not look like that. Even anti-abortion websites indicate something significantly different. But it's not like I know, so I'd love to learn.