The Elder Scrolls

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HeyYou said:
That's what everyone said, that Arthmoor should just roll shit like this into Cutting Room Floor. But no, he insisted that it was an objective bug and introducing an entirely new crafting recipe somehow didn't violate the spirit of what a bugfixing patch should be. Like I said, this was just the fairly innocent tip of the iceberg. The necromage change was an even bigger shitstorm.
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It's not a objective bug the fuck is he on about? At best that beth forgetting the smaller details, at worst it's beth being lazy and expecting modders to change it.
 
Will you post a link to that lolcow thread once it's up and running?
 
It's gonna take awhile to try to dig this shit up. It goes back years, and the worst of his tism is often confined to messages he's sent or obscure forums he's posted on.

If you want immediate examples, DavidJCobb (one of the coolest modders in the community) sums up Arthmoor's issues here. Context: that modder who was an expert when it came to dragon leveled lists pointed out that Arthmoor's patch was """fixing""" shit that it shouldn't have, and he went off on them. He was banned from /r/skyrimmods, and tons of modders came together and said Arthmoor is a fucking jackass.
 
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HeyYou said:
It's gonna take awhile to try to dig this shit up. It goes back years, and the worst of his tism is often confined to messages he's sent or obscure forums he's posted on.

If you want immediate examples, DavidJCobb (one of the coolest modders in the community) sums up Arthmoor's issues here. Context: that modder who was an expert when it came to dragon leveled lists pointed out that Arthmoor's """patch""" was fixing shit that it shouldn't have, and he went off on them. He was banned from /r/skyrimmods, and tons of modders came together and said Arthmoor is a fucking jackass.
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I submitted a bug report for the USSEP to the man once, and he can be helpful when he wants to be. Unfortunately, he tends to be a major prima-donna otherwise, and I find it quite telling lots of people have made patches specifically to undo some of the dumber changes to that.
 
GethN7 said:
I submitted a bug report for the USSEP to the man once, and he can be helpful when he wants to be. Unfortunately, he tends to be a major prima-donna otherwise, and I find it quite telling lots of people have made patches specifically to undo some of the dumber changes to that.
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That's the worst part. No one can argue that he's not technically proficient when it comes to modding Skyrim. Most of the changes in the unofficial patch really are just bugfixes, and it's night and day if you don't use it. That just makes it all the worse arguing with him, because instead of being an impotent loser who's not worth his salt, he has actual skill to back up being a douchebag, and it makes you doubt yourself. For instance, he thought it was impossible to backport mods from SE to LE, and was insulting random people who thought it might be possible. It took another modder coming into the conversation to reveal that, yes, you can backport mods.
 
HeyYou said:
That's the worst part. No one can argue that he's not technically proficient when it comes to modding Skyrim. Most of the changes in the unofficial patch really are just bugfixes, and it's night and day if you don't use it. That just makes it all the worse arguing with him, because instead of being an impotent loser who's not worth his salt, he has actual skill to back up being a douchebag, and it makes you doubt yourself. For instance, he thought it was impossible to backport mods from SE to LE, and was insulting random people who thought it might be possible. It took another modder coming into the conversation to reveal that, yes, you can backport mods.
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The fact that idiot said you can't backport mods was just retarded even for him.

Most of Skyrim SE is backward compatible with the original. Yes, ESP files do have a different form ID (this is easily changed), meshes use a slightly different optimization (easily converted), and there are some scripting changes (easily fixed as well), but most mods for OG Skyrim can work out of the box flawlessly with SSE, and it's not that hard to backport them either.
 
GethN7 said:
The fact that idiot said you can't backport mods was just exceptional even for him.

Most of Skyrim SE is backward compatible with the original. Yes, ESP files do have a different form ID (this is easily changed), meshes use a slightly different optimization (easily converted), and there are some scripting changes (easily fixed as well), but most mods for OG Skyrim can work out of the box flawlessly with SSE, and it's not that hard to backport them either.
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That's Arthmoor for you. I love these games, but the community surrounding them is something else. We could probably have two separate threads on the modding and lore community for these games with how much autism they produce.
 
Never used USLEEP though I have like 8 gorrilion mods on my current build of skyrim. I like breaking tes.
In morrowind you can become invisible to human eye by slaming into a wall hard enough, become as smart as John Carmack with bloat and yams, punch a god to death with a power of alcohol, perma summon an army, make power ranger ring that gives you weightless set of armor while wearing it, have personal shopkeep elc.
In skyrim there arent nearly as many fun breaks, why limit it more?
 
I feel like Cactus Wings with their vendetta for FFXIV every time I play Elder Scrolls Online. I can't for the life of me get into this game. It's getting really frustrating and exhausting getting gear from trials to follow a 'meta build' only for Zenimax to turn around and nuke it until it's completely useless. They never can find a middle ground for gear pieces and instead opt for the binary. That, and they have reverted this change, but it's probably going to come back in the near future, and they apparently want to change the combat style from light attack weave with abilities to heavy attacks and resource build to supposedly make the game easier and more approachable. The fanbase fought back against this, but I have my doubts it's gone forever. It makes sense that heavy attacks would deal more damage on paper, but because the game has ingrained the light attack weave through it's combat mechanics, it's a massive change and departure from what people enjoy.

It's kind of sad too because the combat (once I mastered it) has actually grown on me and I really like the atmosphere and quests. It's fun to wander around outside of town to gather herbs and materials for crafting writs because you have that ambiance, but I like to raid as well and constantly having to switch gears after working hard for my build is just miserable.
 
I am finally done with Morrowind. I liked it, but I feel that because I never played it at the time it was new, and frankly find the TES formula overrated, I did not enjoy it as much as I could have. The approach to storytelling is so much more mature, grounded, interactive and unique than Skyrim's. There is a prophecy but it could be bullshit. The game doesn't try to pretend otherwise. And yet somehow I feel more powerful flying over landmarks in Vardenfel than I do as the genuinely legendary Dragonborn.
 
The Real SVP said:
That's probably because any power your Morrowind character has is the result of your own choices. You made that character. Meanwhile, every Skyrim character is always the super awesome Dragonborn, because the writers said so.
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And shouts are pretty generic, while leaping over mountains is not.
 
Dave. said:
I feel like Cactus Wings with their vendetta for FFXIV every time I play Elder Scrolls Online. I can't for the life of me get into this game. It's getting really frustrating and exhausting getting gear from trials to follow a 'meta build' only for Zenimax to turn around and nuke it until it's completely useless. They never can find a middle ground for gear pieces and instead opt for the binary. That, and they have reverted this change, but it's probably going to come back in the near future, and they apparently want to change the combat style from light attack weave with abilities to heavy attacks and resource build to supposedly make the game easier and more approachable. The fanbase fought back against this, but I have my doubts it's gone forever. It makes sense that heavy attacks would deal more damage on paper, but because the game has ingrained the light attack weave through it's combat mechanics, it's a massive change and departure from what people enjoy.

It's kind of sad too because the combat (once I mastered it) has actually grown on me and I really like the atmosphere and quests. It's fun to wander around outside of town to gather herbs and materials for crafting writs because you have that ambiance, but I like to raid as well and constantly having to switch gears after working hard for my build is just miserable.
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I'd writ TES: O off at the beginning. With so many additions since is there anything redeemable? I mean there must as you're still playing. Would it be worth picking up for someone new to online?
 
Knight said:
I'd writ TES: O off at the beginning. With so many additions since is there anything redeemable? I mean there must as you're still playing. Would it be worth picking up for someone new to online?
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It really depends on what you’re looking for in this game; are you looking for an open world with an immersive environment and interesting? This game does have that, but the crown store and quest dlc NPCs harass you non-stop in the main cities (the first city you enter in game actually, they’re not found everywhere else), but get past that and I think you’ll have no problems for the most part. Are you looking for fun raids with great dungeon content with a fun combat style? Well brace yourself because this community is autistic and hell bent on the ‘meta’ and the perfect builds which means you’re probably going to be grinding normals for a while before you get into the veteran raids. If you can over come that giant obstacle (and get over the fact that Zenimax can’t find a middle ground with gear sets and abilities), the trials are pretty fun. I can’t comment on PvP so I don’t know, but I’ve heard Cyrodil (think of WvW in GW2) has been pretty broken for a long time and Zenimax cannot seem to fix it). Do you like to craft and gather and play the markets? This game does actually have that and you may find more enjoyment out of it then I probably did.

So take that as you will. Just be warned thatthe optimal way to play this game is through monthly subscription.The DLC is locked off and very expensive... unless you get a subscription. Managing your inventory can be very frustrating while gathering and disassembling gear... unless you get a subscription. Also you can’t play imperial unless youbuy one of their DLC packs.
 
Elric of Melnibone said:
Iv been playing through The elder scrolls daggerfall and morrowind lately and have been trying to build the perfect reformation of the leveling system. Skyrim was terrible as an RPG effectively gutting and hobbling the robust system of previous games. It removed attributes, removed and combined skills to an absurd level, removed fan favorite weapon and magic skills, and gimped the fuck out of magic.

First things first, all weapons that have been in previous titles are in with appropriately grouped skills dedicated to them. Shurikens and darts could be grouped into a throwing skill, spears and pikes in a skill etc. Spellcrafting is to be like Daggerfall, with the ability to add effects from any school into the mix, with the only limit being skill, money, and magicka costs. Design would focus on fair balance and progression instead of preventing or nerfing exploits. Thats one of the things I have always hated about bethesda is how extreamly reflexive and overkilling they are when it comes to exploits. Role playing should always be focused on player choice, which anyone familure with D&D could tell you. A DM that is super anal about strict rules and linear story telling is just about one of the worst RPG experiences ever. If a player wants to craft 1000 iron daggers to level smithing up your response should not be to nerf smithing to the point extreme grinding is required for progress.

Now on to leveling. Attributes are back, Daggerfalls character creation is used here including background generation and reputation. You not only get to choose what your character is good at, getting a head start on certain stats and skills allowing you to start playing a role immediately. A thief should be able to thieve from the start, an axe wielding beserker should be bathing in the blood of many mud crabs from the word go. Level 20 should not be the entry level for ones role or class. Skills still level up to 100, each skill level tied to overall level advancement, and also tied to a primary attribute. Level up a strength based skill, get a point of strength on level up. Every 10 skill level ups of major skills is a level up, with all other skills counting as half a major. So 10 major skill advancements is a level up, or 20 minor skill advancement. At level up you get to choose a general perk at every even level. These perks are general perks mostly affecting attributes and core character features such as disease resistance etc.

Skills on the other hand will work similer to how they worked in morrowind/oblivion, awarding perks at every increment of 25. So at level 25 of critical hitting (a returning daggerfall skill) crits will have a chance to daze a target, or each 25 levels of back stabbing increases the sneak attack multiplier that starts at x2 and at 100 would be x6 applying to one handed melee weapons, ranged weapons, and throwing weapons. Further more at 100 you start gaining master levels in a skill. Each skill has 10 mastery levels with each level of mastery granting a perk specific to that skill. For back stabbing you could get added bleeding damage with one handed bladed weapons, or a chance to render targets unconscious with a sneak attack from a blunt weapon. Further more master levels count double for main level progress so each mastery level will add 2 xp tics towards over all level progression.

Also fatigue will return, and you will once again be able to render npc's KO. Unarmed will be overhauled as a skill as well. Rather than requiring you to drain all of an opponents fatigue to damage them, you will deal damage split between fatigue and health. For example your over all hth damage could be 10, but opponents at 75%+ fatigue will take 8 pts fatigue damage and 2 pts health damage, with half fatigue damage also going to magicka. This would all also be affected by the hth skill as well as mastery perks. Also beast races would have more leathal hth damage.

Speaking of beast races, they will be slimier to thier morrowind/daggerfall incarnations, being much more pronounced as beast. Also each race would have more variations available. In the lore the Khajiit for instance have many different breeds, with some being much more cat than man, and vice versa.

This is just my first brainstorm on this, feel free to jump in and add to it.
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I'd say completely ovehaul the HTH system. Ever played Zeno Clash or Zeno Clash 2? Very good HTH systems including various punches, kicks, grapples, shoulder rams, hammer punches, dodges, deflections, reversals, counters, loads of shit to make combat fluid and fun. Heck, extend that system to swordplay as well.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like all the hardcore long term fans always stick to TES because of the sandbox nature and the background lore more than things like the story the 'hero' is involved in, that tells me Bethesda should really put their efforts into making said sandbox as rich as possible so that the playerbase can really let their imaginations free. I watched a documentary where they said they were inspired by another game (or the LOTR boom? can't remember) when they were making Oblivion, that one always has people complaining about the dumbed down generic Europe setting, and then they were inspired by something else during Skyrim where everyone similarly hates being railroaded into the Dragonborn.

If they focused on polishing the jank out of their products and went a little more Elder Scrolls world simulator they'd basically outsource the main plot to the players who are free to truly be anyone and make their own narrative to be happy with so they're not pissed off by things like Skyrim's shallow politics. Maybe that's how they'd win back some playerbase loyalty after doing so poorly in recent years.

edit: if I were Bethesda I'd try and stay in that comfort zone with a smaller but loyal fanbase buying games across the past 20 years but I know there's probably some bullshit like suits demanding them to continuously grow and thus causing all the "dumbing down" to appeal to more potential buyers.
 
BroccoliBrain said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like all the hardcore long term fans always stick to TES because of the sandbox nature and the background lore more than things like the story the 'hero' is involved in, that tells me Bethesda should really put their efforts into making said sandbox as rich as possible so that the playerbase can really let their imaginations free. I watched a documentary where they said they were inspired by another game (or the LOTR boom? can't remember) when they were making Oblivion, that one always has people complaining about the dumbed down generic Europe setting, and then they were inspired by something else during Skyrim where everyone similarly hates being railroaded into the Dragonborn.

If they focused on polishing the jank out of their products and went a little more Elder Scrolls world simulator they'd basically outsource the main plot to the players who are free to truly be anyone and make their own narrative to be happy with so they're not pissed off by things like Skyrim's shallow politics. Maybe that's how they'd win back some playerbase loyalty after doing so poorly in recent years.

edit: if I were Bethesda I'd try and stay in that comfort zone with a smaller but loyal fanbase buying games across the past 20 years but I know there's probably some bullshit like suits demanding them to continuously grow and thus causing all the "dumbing down" to appeal to more potential buyers.
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From what I remember, the former writer Michael Kirkbride said Oblivion was inspired by the LOTR boom which led to the whole generic Europe setting, along with changing the story from where Martin was a "retard you must teach, kingmaker style."


As for Skyrim, I can't say much but one claim was Skyrim would of been in Westeros.
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How Skyrim Was Almost Set in Westeros

Excited for Skyrim? The next installment of the immensely popular Elder Scrolls series is set to debut on November, 11th (11/11/11, right?) and promises to suck away the social lives of millions of…
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Fixing the jank and all and putting more into what players can do in the sandbox outside of the main quest like with Daggerfall would make the game worth revisiting without installing a hundred mods. Same for classes since streamlining skills didn't really make one choose what skills to have a head start in. Oblivion wasn't even really that complex so Skyrim dumbing it down didn't really help beyond giving one the idea that perhaps the Dragonborn was a complete dumbass compared to other protagonist until stepping up onto a chopping block.
 
c-no said:
From what I remember, the former writer Michael Kirkbride said Oblivion was inspired by the LOTR boom which led to the whole generic Europe setting, along with changing the story from where Martin was a "exceptional individual you must teach, kingmaker style."
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Lord, could you imagine Oblivion as it was described in Morrowind? Not a 08/15 LotR setting, but rather a rainforest, with ancient ruins of elves hidden behind trees and rocks?
 
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