The Elder Scrolls

[c-no]

Lord, could you imagine Oblivion as it was described in Morrowind? Not a 08/15 LotR setting, but rather a rainforest, with ancient ruins of elves hidden behind trees and rocks?

All that with what was described in books without going into any batshit insanity from a drug fueled Kirkbride trip like "Talos retroactively slashed and burned the fantasy Amazon into a German forest" or a weaker explanation of "it was all propaganda made by the Imperials." Granted I can get things being shrouded in mystery and all but it would of been nice to at least keep part of Oblivion as jungle, at least in the south/south-east portions because that would of been fitting at least compared to the rest of it. But then again, I heard one guy claim it's because the engine and tech back then couldn't get exactly what they wanted though I also remember seeing a mod for Oblivion that literally changed Cyrodiil into a jungle to fit some Full Metal Jacket theme the modder wanted to do.

 

[HeyYou]

Cyrodiil was a temperate forest in Arena, before Kirkbride ever wrote the Pocket Guide to the Empire that retconned it into a jungle. People who bitch about it being turned back into a forest always irk me. I really liked the propaganda explanation that Online introduced, because it actually fucking followed the "accounts can be biased" nature of the in-game lore that people jerk themselves off over, but no. People couldn't accept that. So instead we have more reality shaping mumbo jumbo as the explanation.

People can't seem to settle on whether they want the series to be about political intrigue and biased accounts or about cosmic craziness, so I understand why Bethesda feels like people will never be satisfied. In terms of setting design, I'm willing to say that Bethesda should always have the final say. Half the shit Kirkbride wrote would make for awful or impossible to make games, so Bethesda putting their foot down and finding a compromise is perfectly fine with me. God knows if they made a Valenwood game people would be bitching that Falinesti isn't walking around the map.

 

[Burned Man]

I like Cyrodiil being the most grounded of the provinces in the center of Tamerial. It really makes the other provinces stand out as more alien. Like in the Argonian account where a man leaves Cyrodiil to go to Blackmarsh and the second he crosses that border he finds it a nightmare hellscape compared to his home. It also makes the legion cooler to me since they come a reasonable climate and if they go in any direction they have to become masters of a completely different terrain in every direction.

I think it also works better showing that is the heart of civiliation but they didn't capitalize on that enough. NPCs in oblvion talk about the land around the Imperial City being cleared for agriculture but there isn't anything there. I think it would have helped to have a lot of suburban settlements and farmlands in the immediate area surrounding the Imperial City.

 

[Ira the Weatherman]

at least keep part of Oblivion as jungle, at least in the south/south-east portions because that would of been fitting at least compared to the rest of it

They did, though? The whole southern area around Leyawiin was like a tropical mangrove swamp.

 

[Crustyguy]

I'd say completely ovehaul the HTH system. Ever played Zeno Clash or Zeno Clash 2? Very good HTH systems including various punches, kicks, grapples, shoulder rams, hammer punches, dodges, deflections, reversals, counters, loads of shit to make combat fluid and fun. Heck, extend that system to swordplay as well.

Yeah, I wanna go around beating the shit out of bandits and monsters with just my fists like some high fantasy fist of the north star.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

People can't seem to settle on whether they want the series to be about political intrigue and biased accounts or about cosmic craziness

Hm, personally I was drawn to the cosmic craziness but agree about Kirkbride's material being game-unfriendly and I'm not gonna wait 30 bloody years of my life until the technology is around for Bethesda to do it. I'd love it if they made their AI less stupid so we could actually have some that intrigue - if you can be anyone I'd love to play a character who goes from nothing to the ranks of a high court and make some heads roll in the process. In the mean time I guess it's modded Bannerlord for me. On that note I think M&B's combat is a step above Skyrim, it requires a little more work than just spamming attack.

Also I got ESO last Christmas but have never touched it since, it feels like a waste. Should I try to invest the time to appreciate it? I just don't like how it feels.

 

[Redeemer and Destroyer]

Also I got ESO last Christmas but have never touched it since, it feels like a waste. Should I try to invest the time to appreciate it? I just don't like how it feels.

Ehhh...maybe? I'm not an MMO person by a longshot--only played one and that was for a phone--but there was a point where I became so addicted to ESO that I traded sleep for it. That was maybe a month until I uninstalled it because the update made it too big and I wanted to play other games.

In short, what I liked about it was that it felt sandboxy, lived in, and had lots of events and quests going on that I went all over the place for. If you're not feeling a quest you can remove it from your book (you'll end up having to do it anyway because there's only a set amount you can take and if you're like me, you'll pick up a fuck ton when you're parousing the land). Traveling around the self-contained maps is easy, there's stones you pay a negligible amount for.

As for traveling from one province to another? Good fucking luck. I'm not sure if there's an easier way for this, but if there isn't a boat you can see nearest to you (which only takes you to certain areas anyway), you're traveling by foot or horse.

Leveling is okay. You'll eventually find groups of people chilling at those big fucking stones where Molag Bal dumps his cronies at and you can power level like that. ESO is pretty generous with EXP scrolls and the like (especially with newcomer events) so you'll be at a fairly high level once you wring those out for the last time. ESO is the only MMO (out of the two I've played) where you can solo it (solo dungeons are a thing too) even in multiplayer dungeons if you're into that kinda thing, but it helps being in a guild and making lots of friends.

I'm not an expert and older players (who've probably been there since the closed beta) will give you a better summary, but I enjoyed what I played in the month I had it. Traveling is what really fucking sucks and it's easy to get lost, but I'd say it's worth it especially when you're winding down from a long day. Personally, I'll just fire up Skyrim and get the same experience for cheaper and without 11,000 microtransactions.

 

[c-no]

Cyrodiil was a temperate forest in Arena, before Kirkbride ever wrote the Pocket Guide to the Empire that retconned it into a jungle. People who bitch about it being turned back into a forest always irk me. I really liked the propaganda explanation that Online introduced, because it actually fucking followed the "accounts can be biased" nature of the in-game lore that people jerk themselves off over, but no. People couldn't accept that. So instead we have more reality shaping mumbo jumbo as the explanation.

People can't seem to settle on whether they want the series to be about political intrigue and biased accounts or about cosmic craziness, so I understand why Bethesda feels like people will never be satisfied. In terms of setting design, I'm willing to say that Bethesda should always have the final say. Half the shit Kirkbride wrote would make for awful or impossible to make games, so Bethesda putting their foot down and finding a compromise is perfectly fine with me. God knows if they made a Valenwood game people would be bitching that Falinesti isn't walking around the map.

With the whole forest and jungle thing, I will admit that it was funny how TESO buggered some of the fans over lore with the "transcription error" bit when even then, the series is likely gonna have to retcon shit. I can imagine that if they had to remake Daggerfall, they can't make it be like it was back then, not without complaints of it being generic European fantasy land despite it having more depth to the story than Oblivion or Skyrim. As for Kirkbride himself, I honestly wouldn't mind some of the shit he made or drew being in there like all the different daedric helmets he drawn since they look better than the edgy helmets of Oblivion and Skyrim.

I like Cyrodiil being the most grounded of the provinces in the center of Tamerial. It really makes the other provinces stand out as more alien. Like in the Argonian account where a man leaves Cyrodiil to go to Blackmarsh and the second he crosses that border he finds it a nightmare hellscape compared to his home. It also makes the legion cooler to me since they come a reasonable climate and if they go in any direction they have to become masters of a completely different terrain in every direction.

I think it also works better showing that is the heart of civiliation but they didn't capitalize on that enough. NPCs in oblvion talk about the land around the Imperial City being cleared for agriculture but there isn't anything there. I think it would have helped to have a lot of suburban settlements and farmlands in the immediate area surrounding the Imperial City.

When one really does explore the wilderness in Oblivion, one would wish for a few more farms and villages beyond just what's near the Imperial City. Same can be said for a few more places outside, similar to Aleswell or Hackdirt. That and maybe at least have a fort be filled with Legion soldiers.

They did, though? The whole southern area around Leyawiin was like a tropical mangrove swamp.

While Leyawiin was a swamp, it didn't really felt much like a swamp compared to what Fallout 3 later gave.

Hm, personally I was drawn to the cosmic craziness but agree about Kirkbride's material being game-unfriendly and I'm not gonna wait 30 bloody years of my life until the technology is around for Bethesda to do it. I'd love it if they made their AI less stupid so we could actually have some that intrigue - if you can be anyone I'd love to play a character who goes from nothing to the ranks of a high court and make some heads roll in the process. In the mean time I guess it's modded Bannerlord for me. On that note I think M&B's combat is a step above Skyrim, it requires a little more work than just spamming attack.

Also I got ESO last Christmas but have never touched it since, it feels like a waste. Should I try to invest the time to appreciate it? I just don't like how it feels.

With all the stuff Kirkbride written, most of it would of been better off for a sort of adventure game than an open world sandbox and even then a chunk of that stuff would be more of scripted events. As for combat systems from other games, any of them are better than Skyrim since they swing weapons without feeling cumbersome and can actually feel like they give an impact.

 

[Burned Man]

When one really does explore the wilderness in Oblivion, one would wish for a few more farms and villages beyond just what's near the Imperial City. Same can be said for a few more places outside, similar to Aleswell or Hackdirt. That and maybe at least have a fort be filled with Legion soldiers.

Thats one thing Skyrim does better then Oblivion is that forts will actually get reclaimed by soldiers if you kill the bandits or whoever is living in there.

 

[Berrakh]

I feel like the lore of this world is very underutulized. Especially after the success of relatively low fantasy like Skyrim.

 

[Shield Breaker]

From what I remember, the former writer Michael Kirkbride said Oblivion was inspired by the LOTR boom which led to the whole generic Europe setting, along with changing the story from where Martin was a "exceptional individual you must teach, kingmaker style."

https://michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/75223526504/toshio-the-starman-said-oblivion-cyrodiil-felt

As for Skyrim, I can't say much but one claim was Skyrim would of been in Westeros.

How Skyrim Was Almost Set in Westeros

Excited for Skyrim? The next installment of the immensely popular Elder Scrolls series is set to debut on November, 11th (11/11/11, right?) and promises to suck away the social lives of millions of…

www.tor.com

Fixing the jank and all and putting more into what players can do in the sandbox outside of the main quest like with Daggerfall would make the game worth revisiting without installing a hundred mods. Same for classes since streamlining skills didn't really make one choose what skills to have a head start in. Oblivion wasn't even really that complex so Skyrim dumbing it down didn't really help beyond giving one the idea that perhaps the Dragonborn was a complete dumbass compared to other protagonist until stepping up onto a chopping block.

Todd claims a lot of stuff. He also said at one point the lost Emperor from Akivari was going to return with dragons.

 

[Crunchy Chick]

It really depends on what you’re looking for in this game; are you looking for an open world with an immersive environment and interesting? This game does have that, but the crown store and quest dlc NPCs harass you non-stop in the main cities (the first city you enter in game actually, they’re not found everywhere else), but get past that and I think you’ll have no problems for the most part. Are you looking for fun raids with great dungeon content with a fun combat style? Well brace yourself because this community is autistic and hell bent on the ‘meta’ and the perfect builds which means you’re probably going to be grinding normals for a while before you get into the veteran raids. If you can over come that giant obstacle (and get over the fact that Zenimax can’t find a middle ground with gear sets and abilities), the trials are pretty fun. I can’t comment on PvP so I don’t know, but I’ve heard Cyrodil (think of WvW in GW2) has been pretty broken for a long time and Zenimax cannot seem to fix it). Do you like to craft and gather and play the markets? This game does actually have that and you may find more enjoyment out of it then I probably did.

So take that as you will. Just be warned thatthe optimal way to play this game is through monthly subscription.The DLC is locked off and very expensive... unless you get a subscription. Managing your inventory can be very frustrating while gathering and disassembling gear... unless you get a subscription. Also you can’t play imperial unless youbuy one of their DLC packs.

Thanks for the write up. I think I'm going to give a permanent pass to this game as it has everything I don't want in an mmo or an rpg.

 

[c-no]

Todd claims a lot of stuff. He also said at one point the lost Emperor from Akivari was going to return with dragons.

At this point with all the lore claimed by Todd and Kirkbride, I'd like to see how the deep lore spergs will react to it all. Can't wait to see some flipping out over it worse than transcription error.

 

[HeyYou]

I wouldn't mind some of Kirkbride's stuff making it into the games from here on out; Skyrim chose some of the more sensible cosmic lore he wrote and implemented it. For instance, the stuff that Kirkbride wrote about the Thalmor is really cool, and I'd love to see the "unmake the world by destroying the Towers" thing become canon in VI. Some of his shit is just bizarre, though, like Pelinal being a Terminator-style cyborg and everything about KINMUNE. I wish the lore spergs would stop taking Kirkbride as gospel. He built off previous writers' work, writers who no longer write for the Elder Scrolls, and it's okay for new writers to build off Kirkbride's work.

 

[Rakdos92]

I wouldn't mind some of Kirkbride's stuff making it into the games from here on out; Skyrim chose some of the more sensible cosmic lore he wrote and implemented it. For instance, the stuff that Kirkbride wrote about the Thalmor is really cool, and I'd love to see the "unmake the world by destroying the Towers" thing become canon in VI. Some of his shit is just bizarre, though, like Pelinal being a Terminator-style cyborg and everything about KINMUNE. I wish the lore spergs would stop taking Kirkbride as gospel. He built off previous writers' work, writers who no longer write for the Elder Scrolls, and it's okay for new writers to build off Kirkbride's work.

Eh, I like the idea of future technology and beings traveling back to the medieval age to archive a goal. Pelinal being this unstoppable killing maschine was a cool detail.

 

[HeyYou]

Eh, I like the idea of future technology and beings traveling back to the medieval age to archive a goal. Pelinal being this unstoppable killing maschine was a cool detail.

I like that idea too, then you actually read Kirkbride's vision of futuristic Tamriel. But still, as cool as that idea is, why can't Pelinal just be a Shezzarine driven mad by the gods, to the point that he can see snippets of the future? Why can't the rest of the literature about him, like the beams of light he fired or claims that he massacred thousands and thousands of elves to the point the land got fucked up, be embellishment? Why does every fun over-exaggerated story in the lore need to have an actual cosmic explanation?

 

[c-no]

I like that idea too, then you actually read Kirkbride's vision of futuristic Tamriel. But still, as cool as that idea is, why can't Pelinal just be a Shezzarine driven mad by the gods, to the point that he can see snippets of the future? Why can't the rest of the literature about him, like the beams of light he fired or claims that he massacred thousands and thousands of elves to the point the land got fucked up, be embellishment? Why does every fun over-exaggerated story in the lore need to have an actual cosmic explanation?

At this point, I'd just imagine it'd be a way to justify whatever he wrote while under a drug trip. I wouldn't mind if "beams of light" was just some way for a Nord or Dunmer to think that's what lasers were. If the thousands of dead elves and fucked up land part were to be true, I'd just imagine that rolling with it, you'd get a more grounded explanation in "Terminator man used explosives and laser beams to kill elves" rather than beams of light and whatever drug trip written explanations there were. All that said, you also have a point previously. Kirkbride's stuff was all added in when he got on board during Battlespire or Redguard because before that, there was already lore beforehand with Daggerfall, some of which Bethesda is likely to axe or heavily retcon. I can imagine some wanting to disregard Arena and Daggerfall simply because they would seem too generic for their taste even though there can still be interesting shit from that.

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like all the hardcore long term fans always stick to TES because of the sandbox nature and the background lore more than things like the story the 'hero' is involved in, that tells me Bethesda should really put their efforts into making said sandbox as rich as possible so that the playerbase can really let their imaginations free. I watched a documentary where they said they were inspired by another game (or the LOTR boom? can't remember) when they were making Oblivion, that one always has people complaining about the dumbed down generic Europe setting, and then they were inspired by something else during Skyrim where everyone similarly hates being railroaded into the Dragonborn.

If they focused on polishing the jank out of their products and went a little more Elder Scrolls world simulator they'd basically outsource the main plot to the players who are free to truly be anyone and make their own narrative to be happy with so they're not pissed off by things like Skyrim's shallow politics. Maybe that's how they'd win back some playerbase loyalty after doing so poorly in recent years.

edit: if I were Bethesda I'd try and stay in that comfort zone with a smaller but loyal fanbase buying games across the past 20 years but I know there's probably some bullshit like suits demanding them to continuously grow and thus causing all the "dumbing down" to appeal to more potential buyers.

The problem is that they don't care about the lore, Todd even said this himself, in a way. He wants his game to make you feel like when you win a round of Peggle, a big epic spectacle without much substance, and I think it shows. They also have the problem of having one good idea, or hook, and overusing it so much it becomes trite and boring, and it started in Oblivion. Like remember the first time you climbed the hill to Kvatch, and the beautiful tranquil sky slowly turned red and ominous, and you entered that gate and you were in a dark hellish nightmare world? That was cool, right? Not 30 hours later when you entered a half dozen more of them and you were just sick of the tedious fuckin' things. Or remember the first time you fought a dragon in Skyrim? You and Irileth and the Whiterun guard running to the tower (or just you running to the quest marker and waiting a minute for them to catch up) and the dragon has an epic entrance and people are shouting and "One they Fear" swells up and you kill it and it's an epic gamer moment? Then 30 hours later they just become an obnoxious flying health pool you can't fast travel from? Oh, but you need the souls to unlock shouts! Did anyone really care about the shouts? I've played a (shameful) amount of Skyrim, and there was only 2 shouts I used : Fus ro Dah , to knock the dinnerware off tables, and turn ethereal, so I can jump off the bridge at the College of Winterhold. All the other shouts were useless! It was easier to hit things with a sword or zap them with magic than to wait for the bar to recharge.

But I've been rambling enough, Young Scrolls released a new song yesterday:

 

[HeyYou]

I've played a (shameful) amount of Skyrim, and there was only 2 shouts I used : Fus ro Dah , to knock the dinnerware off tables, and turn ethereal, so I can jump off the bridge at the College of Winterhold. All the other shouts were useless! It was easier to hit things with a sword or zap them with magic than to wait for the bar to recharge.

What difficulty are you playing on? I always used to play on the lower difficulties just to have a fun time, but recently I thought it would be cool to play on a higher difficulty with a rebalance mod and shouts have become indispensable. Disarm, Dragon Aspect, Elemental Fury, Ice Form, Marked for Death, Soul Tear, Slow Time, Throw Voice (for stealth), and Unrelenting Force are pretty much necessary for me to not want to quit and give up.

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN]

What difficulty are you playing on? I always used to play on the lower difficulties just to have a fun time, but recently I thought it would be cool to play on a higher difficulty with a rebalance mod and shouts have become indispensable. Disarm, Dragon Aspect, Elemental Fury, Ice Form, Marked for Death, Soul Tear, Slow Time, Throw Voice (for stealth), and Unrelenting Force are pretty much necessary for me to not want to quit and give up.

I usually play Adept, and I use a combat mod (Wildcat, I think, it's been a while since I last played) to fine tune the damage.