The Final Fantasy Thread

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

The most impressive thing about FFXII is that it has the worst protagonist in the entire series. Say what you want about Tidus, but he has good qualities. The protagonist could’ve been Balthier, Basch, or even Ashe. But no, it’s Vaan. Who even is Vaan? What does he have compared to a successful sky pirate, a knight, and a princess?

From what I remember, Vaan was actually mandated by the higher ups at Square Enix to specifically give the audience someone to identify with in the game. As others have said, he serves a specific purpose. In X, Tidus basically filled the same role. In fact, you can argue that Tidus, like Vaan, isn't even the main character of his game, but Yuna is.

From what I recall they were going to combine them, but was retconned to not be the case.

FF12 does share the same universe as the tactics advance games though.

This was never retconned. The Ivalice in Tactics is the same Ivalice as the one in XII, just further along in the timeline. Both are still officially part of the Ivalice Alliance meta series. What was retconned is that Vagrant Story was later confirmed by the Yasumi Matsuno to be set in Ivalice, when that wasn't the case originally. Tactics Advance is still part of the Ivalice Alliance, but its role is somewhat muddled because the Ivalice in that was a dream world, and the main characters live in a modern town call "St. Ivalice", which may just be a cheeky reference.

 

[Berrakh]

In fact, you can argue that Tidus, like Vaan, isn't even the main character of his game, but Yuna is.

I contend that they fell in love with the “unlikely, even incorrect, hero” trope since 7.

It might have existed before then but it was a minor part of a more minor game. Only 2 and 3 come to mind but neither develop the themes.

But in 7 Cloud basically became Soldier-like by accident and misfortune. And his role in the story by the end is to make it so the character with an actual special bloodline didn’t die in vain.

That’s all minor and maybe even accidental. But making Zack a major character reinforces it, since he was the unlucky “first” hero who died young.

8 is similar in that Squall lacks typical heroic qualities. But, as even Spoony said, it is his story thoroughly.

Then you have X where Tidus is audience pov but the real hero is Yuna.

And XII is the epitome of it through Vaan.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I contend that they fell in love with the “unlikely, even incorrect, hero” trope since 7. It might have existed before, 2 and 3 come to mind.

Bartz shouldn't be the main character in 5. He's just kinda wandering the world with his chocobo. It ought to be Lenna. She's the one who initiates the journey when she seeks out her father at the Wind Temple.

X without voice acting would have been kino

 

[Berrakh]

Bartz shouldn't be the main character in 5. He's just kinda wandering the world with his chocobo. It ought to be Lenna. She's the one who initiates the journey when she seeks out her father at the Wind Temple.

Bartz takes charge quick and is Dorgann’s son. So it’s still only a brief filing error and not a developed theme

Also that dialogue box looks kino to me!

 

[eternal dog mongler]

From what I remember, Vaan was actually mandated by the higher ups at Square Enix to specifically give the audience someone to identify with in the game.

Nah, he was there from the beginning. They did change his design to be more androgynous though.

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

Nah, he was there from the beginning. They did change his design to be more androgynous though.

Wasn't he originally some healer or something?

 

[Captain Syrup]

They did change his design to be more androgynous.

We were robbed of Femboy Basch, clearly!

Games fall into two extremes. It's either a one-dimensional, effeminate pretty boy or a "hetero" man's dream: the stupidly muscular uberman. That's why Valve's and Rockstar's protagonists worked: they seem like real people.

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

The most impressive thing about FFXII is that it has the worst protagonist in the entire series. Say what you want about Tidus, but he has good qualities. The protagonist could’ve been Balthier, Basch, or even Ashe. But no, it’s Vaan. Who even is Vaan? What does he have compared to a successful sky pirate, a knight, and a princess?

From what I remember, Vaan was actually mandated by the higher ups at Square Enix to specifically give the audience someone to identify with in the game. As others have said, he serves a specific purpose. In X, Tidus basically filled the same role. In fact, you can argue that Tidus, like Vaan, isn't even the main character of his game, but Yuna is.

Here's an overlooked idea, how about that guy in the intro that fought along Basch that got killed?





He has the look, has something to do with the plot as he is one of Basch's comrades, he had more involvement than Vaan or Penelo.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Here's an overlooked idea, how about that guy in the intro that fought along Basch that got killed?

View attachment 3669902

He has the look, has something to do with the plot as he is one of Basch's comrades, he had more involvement than Vaan or Penelo.

I think he's a little bit too effeminate looking, even for the Japanese. Square likes boy band type pretty boys, not mincing faggots.

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

I think he's a little bit too effeminate looking, even for the Japanese. Square likes boy band type pretty boys, not mincing faggots.

Then how about Larsa?

He's at least got some involvement, he's a son of the emperor, royalty, mature for his age, he's the same age as Sora. He'd fit a bit more than Vaan or Penelo. Speaking of which, I remember way back people in the fandoms kept and probably still do, shipping him and Penelo together

 

[Soycast Guy]

Then how about Larsa?

View attachment 3669958

He's at least got some involvement, he's a son of the emperor, royalty, mature for his age, he's the same age as Sora. He'd fit a bit more than Vaan or Penelo. Speaking of which, I remember way back people in the fandoms kept and probably still do, shipping him and Penelo together
View attachment 3669965

When I played FFXII I thought Larsa was a girl at first.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Then how about Larsa?

View attachment 3669958

He's at least got some involvement, he's a son of the emperor, royalty, mature for his age, he's the same age as Sora. He'd fit a bit more than Vaan or Penelo. Speaking of which, I remember way back people in the fandoms kept and probably still do, shipping him and Penelo together
View attachment 3669965

Dude does look like a girl, but he's got that effeminate look without being an out and out faggot. The Japanese love that shit. No shortage of main characters that fit that design (like the protagonist of Turn A Gundam). And he's still got a thoroughly masculine style of dress. Being royalty also works for making him far more relevant to the plot and you can make him a good audience surrogate by explaining that he's really sheltered and is still undergoing his education.

 

[PuffyGroundCloud]

Here's an overlooked idea, how about that guy in the intro that fought along Basch that got killed?

View attachment 3669902

He has the look, has something to do with the plot as he is one of Basch's comrades, he had more involvement than Vaan or Penelo.

That's Vaan's brother Reks

 

[Berrakh]

i love you all but you’re terrible, you’re all terrible

We will never really understand Vaan’s addition. That’s why he’s such a stick in people’s craw.

 

[Captain Syrup]

We will never really understand Vaan’s addition. That’s why he’s such a stick in people’s craw.

More annoying than the kid from the opening to Jurassic Park. I wanted Balthier to duct-tape his mouth shut.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

We will never really understand Vaan’s addition.

If you remember that scene when you first get to the sandsea, your other party members don't understand why Vaan or Penelo are tagging along either.

 

[Soycast Guy]

If you remember that scene when you first get to the sandsea, your other party members don't understand why Vaan or Penelo are tagging along either.

I can’t remember a single scene where Penelo even appeared.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I can’t remember a single scene where Penelo even appeared.

Her personality is being a verbally-meandering worrywart with hyperfocus on her butt.

There's just something about the faces in 12; Penelo is the most affected by this. Am I to believe there’s a large contingent of little girls with Down syndrome out there who are just dreaming of seeing themselves represented in Ivalice?

 

[eternal dog mongler]

There's just something about the faces in 12; Penelo is the most affected by this.

Yeah, her face is just like...too wide or something? Definitely off, and her voice actor trying to match movements didn't do her any favors.

FF12 did have that fun easter egg where Vaan says "I got a good feeling!" in the cutscene when you first enter Jahara though.

 

[Sincere Sinner]

I can't say the same for Vaan/Penelo, but I've actually come to appreciate Tidus as a good character on a repeat playthrough.

Hear me out: he's childish, selfish, and sometimes even outright idiotic, but I believe that those traits were actually necessary for him and the party to challenge the dominant orthodoxy of the Yevon religion and truly defeat Sin. He's honestly like some kind of revolutionary, only instead of the grizzled bad-ass revolutionary type you typically get in a story, he's like "I'm going to lash out at all these authority figures like a big baby and do my own shit" only it ACTUALLY WORKS. And yeah laugh at the daddy issues angle all you want, but that's a big part of his motivation to defeat Sin too.

I think the writers are even pretty self aware about this: the most telling scene is I believe around Yunalesca where Lulu says something like "If you want everything you will end up with nothing" and Tidus responds with "BUT I WANT EVERYTHING" like a five year old. By insisting on a "perfect" outcome and refusing to settle or compromise he basically saves the world.