The Final Fantasy Thread

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

The shift away from turn-based doesn't entirely make sense though. Mainline Final Fantasy games and their direct sequels have always had some flavor of turn-based when you include ATB type systems, until I think FF13-3. They closed out the XIII trilogy with the weakest sales among them, and...then a shift to action combat.

What, were they just so impressed with ending a turn-based trilogy with an action game which had the lowest sales and Metacritic score of the three that they thought it was a good idea to double down on action? I don't get it.

I think it's a myth which everyone bought into, that action games are an easier sell, I'm not convinced.

I think it was really just a case of seeing where the wind was blowing and what was becoming more popular internationally. It was games like Dark Souls and Skyrim. Meanwhile, FFXIII sold a lot, but was widely hated, while XIV came out originally as a massive disaster, only to be salvaged by a dedicated director, and XV came out after a marathon development cycle to an ultimately mixed critical reception, and sales that probably disappointed Square Enix considering the amount they invested in it, leading to the game's director leaving the company only a month after he had been given his own studio, and Squeenix cancelling the game's second round of DLC and abandoning it. Final Fantasy has been treading water for a while now, and Square Enix is desperate for the kind of runaway success that past games received.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

XVI is looking good for what it is, better than XV at least, but I don't think they will find their next FFVII by making generic action RPGs, they're just going to blend into the sea of similar games.

 

[Berrakh]

I bought FF7 Remake on steam and can’t wait to play it. I’ve played it on the PS4 before but it’s gonna feel far better to play on PC.

When I saw you had a kill count of 1488 I knew we were in good hands

XVI is looking good for what it is, better than XV at least, but I don't think they will find their next FFVII by making generic action RPGs, they're just going to blend into the sea of similar games.

I think another big problem with “finding their next 7” is that 7 was developed without questioning a lot of the ideas that went into it. And that just won’t fly in Square now. As we see with the Remake where they have a lot to say about the significance of Barrett’s arm tattoo (random example)

 

[YachieKicchou]

FFXI with all the expansions (I think) is 10$ right now. Worth it if I want to relive some MMO history?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

When I saw you had a kill count of 1488 I knew we were in good hands


I think another big problem with “finding their next 7” is that 7 was developed without questioning a lot of the ideas that went into it. And that just won’t fly in Square now. As we see with the Remake where they have a lot to say about the significance of Barrett’s arm tattoo (random example)

Also the art is a big problem. Shifting to more realistic character designs kills any uniqueness they could have. Cloud is iconic looking as fuck, with his excessively spikey, super blonde hair and retardedly gigantic sword. Noctis and the FFXVI dude could be anyone, but Cloud is Cloud.

FFVII isn't even in my top 3 FFs so I'm not even being biased either. I also don't care for him as a character that much.

FFVII also refined the gameplay, featuring the best combat and exploration in the series up to that point, weaving in impressive cutscenes. They paired that with a giant world, and it was technically impressive being (I think) the first "fully" 3D JRPG of that console generation.

I don't think they're even trying to match that kind of quality and advancement, let alone surpass it.

 

[Snekposter]

Noctis and the FFXVI dude could be anyone, but Cloud is Cloud.

That's honestly the problem. Everyone's gone to boy band looks these days in an attempt to be inoffensive while catering to the fujos. Even the updated designs of FF7Remake keep their iconic looks, which is why they stand out a lot even now. You couldn't make a game with Barrett the ghetto thug these days, for example. Christ, we got Raiden in MGS2 out of a desperate attempt to cater to the fujos after focus testing revealed Snake's rugged jawline turned them off from playing MGS.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

That's honestly the problem. Everyone's gone to boy band looks these days in an attempt to be inoffensive while catering to the fujos. Even the updated designs of FF7Remake keep their iconic looks, which is why they stand out a lot even now. You couldn't make a game with Barrett the ghetto thug these days, for example. Christ, we got Raiden in MGS2 out of a desperate attempt to cater to the fujos after focus testing revealed Snake's rugged jawline turned them off from playing MGS.

Is that actually true? I like Raiden but what a gay origin.

 

[Snekposter]

Is that actually true? I like Raiden but what a gay origin.

That's what I've heard. Long story short, MGS didn't sell well enough in Japan for Konami to be happy with it despite making bank in North America, so they decided to figure out what they could do differently for number 2 to be more palatable to Japanese audiences. Unsurprisingly, when you ask young Japanese women what they want in a protagonist, a guy who looks like Snake Plissken mixed with John Rambo isn't exactly top of the list. And companies being companies, nobody bothered to stop and think if a game about tactical espionage action even appealed to young Japanese women in the first place.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

FFXI with all the expansions (I think) is 10$ right now. Worth it if I want to relive some MMO history?

I think so. Started playing a couple months ago and have been having a blast. If you just want to play the story content, all of it is soloable with trusts.

If you pick it up, I'm on Bahamut.

 

[White Devil]

That's honestly the problem. Everyone's gone to boy band looks these days in an attempt to be inoffensive while catering to the fujos. Even the updated designs of FF7Remake keep their iconic looks, which is why they stand out a lot even now. You couldn't make a game with Barrett the ghetto thug these days, for example. Christ, we got Raiden in MGS2 out of a desperate attempt to cater to the fujos after focus testing revealed Snake's rugged jawline turned them off from playing MGS.

While Cloud's look was very iconic for 1997, I think the most lasting thing about him is his personality, which the remake hit the nail on the head with.

What other FF protag was so memorable?

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

What about Zidane from IX?

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

XVI is looking good for what it is, better than XV at least, but I don't think they will find their next FFVII by making generic action RPGs, they're just going to blend into the sea of similar games.

Turn based games to the average person, aka you're not some kind of autismo about stats and relatively minor things, I find tend to feel pretty similar to each other especially to zoomers IME with that crowd who watches them try to comprehend games older then the PS3 era. So unless we're going for the appeal of "Its not an action game this time!" I'm not sure how you make the next FF7 be turn based is the winning formula, as opposed to trying to make a good action combat system that isn't ass. I find action combat can stick out easier because their are just more obvious feel differences within action combat due to how much broader you can go with action RPGs (for better and for worse, as their are a lot of very questionable ARPG combat choices in that genre of games).

This is SE and FF, so who knows if they can do that. I mean FromSoft does very well despite making a hard collection of games in an environment that seems to want to make games easier for "accessibility" reasons, so clearly action rpgs can stand out even if you make game design decisions that work against mass appeal. Action RPG FFs have historically been kind of shit, which is weird as this company made KH. Although KH also started getting worse too when mainline FF jumped on the ARPG train around Lightning Returns' release.

You could show someone Etrian Odyssey, a Trails game, a Dragon Quest game, and pretty much any FF10 or earlier mainline game and many people would probably find they all will feel pretty similar combat wise. I'd argue all those games are very different personally, but I am an RPG autismo who also thinks every KH is pretty different from each other because of their broad game feel differences as that series has progressed.

 

[Berrakh]

While Cloud's look was very iconic for 1997, I think the most lasting thing about him is his personality, which the remake hit the nail on the head with.

What other FF protag was so memorable?

Idk. Cloud became mopey in everything when he was a cocky prick to start and a sensitive but plainspoken lad to end it all.

Remake is the closest he’s been but he still lacks a lot of the same attitude.

 

[Soycast Guy]

While Cloud's look was very iconic for 1997, I think the most lasting thing about him is his personality, which the remake hit the nail on the head with.

What other FF protag was so memorable?

Jack Garland.

I’m not sure how memorable though but Squall has a great design.

And his weapon is nearly as memorable as the Buster Sword for me.

 

[Berrakh]

Jack Garland was for his charming personality

 

[Local Degenerate]

I’m not sure how memorable though but Squall has a great design.

And his weapon is nearly as memorable as the Buster Sword for me.

For all the shit 8 (rightfully) gets, Squall is one of the better aspects...in the japanese cut. He is a little shithead cock-goblin, but I feel like that's a great character to use in a situation like 8, and as you said, the design is simple, but effective, and I'm a sucker for fur lined jackets and coats.

And had they not fucked the pooch in the writing, 'edgy shithead grows to be hero' could be a great coming of age story, especially about a literal high schooler.

I specify the japanese version just because of how much more snarky he was there. Something the localization felt fit to replace with 'whatever' ad nauseum.

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

On the topic of memorable FF protagonists, I find Ramza from Tactics to be very memorable. Not so much because he is unique as Ramza is a fairly typical noble hearted virtuous good boy hero character, but because he in some ways succeeds and fails at the same time despite following a lot of the usual story beats you'd expect from his sort of protagonist.

When you put it all together, Ramza gets fucking nothing but personal satisfaction that he did the right thing while in contrast his foil in Delita gets effectively everything despite him doing so many bad things to get there while doing little to handle the coming disaster. As without Ramza, Delita's rise to power would have probably gone up in flames by what Ramza put a stop to. It feels so unfair and not really the super typical heroic ending where Ramza would get the girl, get his honor back despite everything, and everyone praises him as the Hero of Ivalice or some generic title like that. Ramza is considered a traitor and a heretic, his house is dead by his own actions as his last name is forever ruined, he left behind everything he had, and all his good actions are erased from common place history with only one man knowing the truth.

Delita gets everything he materially wanted and to me ends up miserable anyway regardless of all his efforts to get past his original misery, while Ramza gets nothing but at best personal satisfaction. If he properly foils Delita and we follow his personality then I believed it is implied that Ramza feels satisfied and content despite it all. I think that idea fits with this type of character and embodies the idea that knowing you did the right thing is its own inherent reward, as in a way we all have to live with ourselves in the end. Delita may be an asshole, but I don't think he is sociopathic or narcissitic enough to feel he had done a good job by the end. Ramza not being rewarded for his efforts like Delita was feels more in-line with the virtues he genuinely cares about.

Delita's final line asking "Ramza...what did you get?" or "Did you get your end in all of this, Ramza?" depending on the translation is just such a great way to cap off Ramza's character.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

What other FF protag was so memorable?

Well, Tidus was memorable, for all the wrong reasons (HAHAHAHA).

 

[Snekposter]

Jack Garland was for his charming personality

CHAOS!

localization

The bane of quality.

 

[Soycast Guy]

The most impressive thing about FFXII is that it has the worst protagonist in the entire series. Say what you want about Tidus, but he has good qualities. The protagonist could’ve been Balthier, Basch, or even Ashe. But no, it’s Vaan. Who even is Vaan? What does he have compared to a successful sky pirate, a knight, and a princess?