The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

"The Auschwitz regulations strictly prohibited the SS from killing or arbitrarily mistreating an inmate. SS personnel who were transferred to the
camp had to sign the following “Pledge”:32 “I am aware that only the Führer may decide upon the life and death of an enemy of the state. I may not physically harm or kill any opponent of the state (inmate). Any killing of an inmate in a concentration camp requires the personal authorization of Reichsführer SS [Himmler]. I am also aware that any violation of this pledge will be inexorably accounted for. CC Auschwitz, [day missing] November 1943."
Same source, next page.

Is this in your opinion the strongest positive evidence you've seen in support of the revisionist hypothesis (no mass killing / they were instead sent east)?

 

[mrolonzo]

Is this in your opinion the strongest positive evidence you've seen in support of the revisionist hypothesis (no mass killing / they were instead sent east)?

No that would be the scientific analysis of the proposed killing methods, the construction office documents of the camp detailing what actually went on and the research into the early beginning of the rumours around camps such as Belzec and the actual findings of what bodies are actually underneath that camp. Plus also the fact that in the only more technical exterminationist work ever done, Pressacs criminal "traces" was all that was found which was then dismantled in detail by Mattogno.

But we're on the healthcare aspect, specifically on what the SS were actually allowed to do and how they operated in the main camp right now, which itself is pretty powerful.

 

[Chugger]

No that would be the scientific analysis of the proposed killing methods, the construction office documents of the camp detailing what actually went on and the research into the early beginning of the rumours around camps such as Belzec and the actual findings of what bodies are actually underneath that camp. Plus also the fact that in the only more technical exterminationist work ever done, Pressacs criminal "traces" was all that was found which was then dismantled in detail by Mattogno.

disputing something with scientific analysis is negative evidence. So Flat Earthers may have negative evidence because of their critique of mainstream science

positive evidence might be construction documents which support some other purpose for supposed extermination facilities. it might be evidence that some number of non-employable Jews were resettled in Russia. It might be witness statements directly corroborating any of these things. It might be a witness saying they were forced to confess to crimes they know for a fact did not occur (thereby evidencing conspiracy). I await your strongest piece of positive evidence (I am asking for one item -- a witness statement or document)

 

[mrolonzo]

disputing something with scientific analysis is negative evidence. So Flat Earthers may have negative evidence because of their critique of mainstream science

positive evidence might be construction documents which support some other purpose for supposed extermination facilities. it might be evidence that some number of non-employable Jews were resettled in Russia. It might be witness statements directly corroborating any of these things. It might be a witness saying they were forced to confess to crimes they know for a fact did not occur (thereby evidencing conspiracy). I await your strongest piece of positive evidence (I am asking for one item -- a witness statement or document)

I already gave you camp SS regulations. I pointed to the construction office which details how the camp actually worked. This is hard evidence. Corroborated by technical analysis and document analysis.

 

[Chugger]

I already gave you camp SS regulations. I pointed to the construction office which details how the camp actually worked. This is hard evidence. Corroborated by technical analysis and document analysis.

Decide on one document to put forward as your best evidence. I'm not going to review thousands of documents from the construction office

 

[mrolonzo]

Decide on one document to put forward as your best evidence. I'm not going to review thousands of documents from the construction office

I gave you the regulations, if you don't like that you can examine them through the source i gave you . For more you can just read Mattogno on Pressac or various other analyses of the camp documents. There's about 30 books on this subject. Do you think im being reasonable?

 

[Chugger]

I gave you the regulations, if you don't like that you can examine them through the source i gave you . For more you can just read Mattogno on Pressac or various other analyses of the camp documents. There's about 30 books on this subject. Do you think im being reasonable?

Yes lol. It's irrelevant what I "like". I'm simply asking you to to put forward the document that you think is the strongest single piece of positive evidence for the revisionist position. Is that the regulations?

 

[mrolonzo]

Yes lol. It's irrelevant what I "like". I'm simply asking you to to put forward the document that you think is the strongest single piece of positive evidence for the revisionist position. Is that the regulations?

Its entirely relevant here what you like. You demand positive evidence regarding an event that never happened on numbers of people with no firm foundation? But then you won't even accept a source for what SS men were under military standing orders to do?
You seem to imply that these men had other orders or that they disobeyed those orders on a massive scale. Is that it?

 

[Chugger]

Its entirely relevant here what you like. You demand positive evidence for an event that never happened on numbers of people with no firm foundation? But then you won't even accept a source for what SS men were under military standing orders to do?

I accept the source lol, I just want to know if you think it is the strongest evidence. If you think there is stronger please show me that instead. This isn't hard, no need to waffle around

 

[mrolonzo]

I accept the source lol, I just want to know if you think it is the strongest evidence. If you think there is stronger please show me that instead. This isn't hard, no need to waffle around

Ok fair enough. I think the strongest evidence is the records of actual treatment of Jews in Auschwitz hospital. Same source as given. Reason, people who give healthcare are not also going to be committing mass murder in the same space. The one counters the other. This is a reasonable and common sense position that you probably agree with.

 

[Chugger]

Ok fair enough. I think the strongest evidence is the records of actual treatment of Jews in Auschwitz hospital. Same source as given. Reason, people who give healthcare are not also going to be committing mass murder in the same space. The one counters the other.

OK I accept that Jews were medically treated in Auschwitz,

But I don't think this is very strong evidence because it doesn't contradict the mainstream narrative, which is that Nazis set aside the healthiest or most skilled Jews sent to Auschwitz for labor purposes (and kept them alive because they were valuable and not for humanitarian purposes) , while the remaining 70-80% went unregistered and were killed.

I really have nothing more to say here, the people can decide how compelling your strongest positive evidence is.

 

[soy_king]

1. Hungarian Jews were being treated in Auschwitz hospital so no.
2. You don't have 6 million.
3. You don't have nazi atrocities.
4. You have contradictory and mostly second hand accounts.
5. You don't have a murder weapon
6. You don't have bodies.
7. You don't have an order, or a budget, or a plan.

Holy shit the sheer autism of this post. How exactly do you not have 6 million dead jews over the course of the war when that's clearly quantifiable based on available census data? did these people just magically disappear?

As for bodies, whose bodies are at Babi Yar and the many other sites of Einsatzgruppen operations in the USSR? did the Allies simply concoct an elaborate opp where they collectively decided to starve people and create fake bodies to plant on those poor hapless dindu Nazis?

Shit like this is why noone takes these revisionist claims seriously.

 

[mrolonzo]

OK I accept that Jews were medically treated in Auschwitz,

But I don't think this is very strong evidence because it doesn't contradict the mainstream narrative, which is that Nazis set aside the healthiest or most skilled Jews sent to Auschwitz for labor purposes (and kept them alive because they were valuable and not for humanitarian purposes) , while the remaining 70-80% went unregistered and were killed.

I really have nothing more to say here, the people can decide how compelling your strongest positive evidence is.

Which of course is nonsense. The Jews treated in the Auschwitz hospital were not the most healthy, quite the opposite, and there's no evidence of any special value they had and the notion that nazis would just not record people so they could kill them is preposterous when they already registering Jews as specifically unfit for work (what??!!) or releasing them altogether from the camp ( Eh ?!!!!) or registering Jewish babies born in the camp ( No!!!!... say it ain't so!).

I wonder what people will think of this?

 

[Marley Rathbone]

Holy shit the sheer autism of this post. How exactly do you not have 6 million dead jews over the course of the war when that's clearly quantifiable based on available census data? did these people just magically disappear?

As for bodies, whose bodies are at Babi Yar and the many other sites of Einsatzgruppen operations in the USSR? did the Allies simply concoct an elaborate opp where they collectively decided to starve people and create fake bodies to plant on those poor hapless dindu Nazis?

Shit like this is why noone takes these revisionist claims seriously.

Please show us the census data. End this debate. Go ahead.

 

[mrolonzo]

Holy shit the sheer autism of this post. How exactly do you not have 6 million dead jews over the course of the war when that's clearly quantifiable based on available census data? did these people just magically disappear?

As for bodies, whose bodies are at Babi Yar and the many other sites of Einsatzgruppen operations in the USSR? did the Allies simply concoct an elaborate opp where they collectively decided to starve people and create fake bodies to plant on those poor hapless dindu Nazis?

Shit like this is why noone takes these revisionist claims seriously.

1. The data is recognized as rotten even by exterminationist authors.

2. Babi Yar? What bodies?

3. People starved or died of typhus at the war's end. Thus the enormous amounts of zyklon b and documents stating the need to fix the situation in prior years, not exacerbate it. Yes.

 

[Chugger]

Which of course is nonsense. The Jews treated in the Auschwitz hospital were not the most healthy, quite the opposite, and there's no evidence of any special value they had and the notion that nazis would just not record people so they could kill them is preposterous when they already registering Jews as specifically unfit for work (what??!!) or releasing them altogether from the camp ( Eh ?!!!!) or registering Jewish babies born in the camp ( No!!!!... say it ain't so!).

I wonder what people will think of this?

I don't know man. If you have evidence of Nazis maintaining non-employable Jews in AUschwitz up until its liberation, or having babies which were then cared for, etc you should post that instead. Otherwise I have nothing to say to you. You're the lowest rung of denier (others are less educated than you but don't have a tenth of your passion) so I wouldn't recommend for anyone to talk to you eg @soy_king . You're just not intelligent enough to be very interesting, sorry.

There's other people at Codoh like Otium that I would talk to, except I got banned from Codoh after bringing up Generalplan OST. Maybe you should message him and ask him to come here. Most likely your message to him will be deleted because the mods there police even these interactions.

 

[Chugger]

Please show us the census data. End this debate. Go ahead.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-of-the-world

The worldwide Jewish population still hasn't returned to its 1930s level

 

[mrolonzo]

I don't know man. If you have evidence of Nazis maintaining non-employable Jews in AUschwitz up until its liberation, or having babies which were then cared for, etc you should post that instead. Otherwise I have nothing to say to you. You're the lowest rung of denier (others are less educated than you but don't have a tenth of your passion) so I wouldn't recommend for anyone to talk to you eg @soy_king . You're just not intelligent enough to be very interesting, sorry.

There's other people at Codoh like Otium that I would talk to, except I got banned from Codoh after bringing up Generalplan OST. Maybe you should message him and ask him to come here. Most likely your message to him will be deleted because the mods there police even these interactions.

Again nonsense, they're treating Jews in hospital in 1944 and the babies were registered too.

Im boring? There's no need to just bow out like this. It's beneath you. You can come to rodoh of course, concern trolling and dodging is more tolerated there. Don't ask me to ask codoh guys to come here. That's just silly and you know it. They have standards.

And world Jewish figures are not set on stone like the JVL likes to tell you. See Thomas Dalton's debate survey on this.

 

[Mark Antony]

Holocaust happened: Hundreds of thousands of preserved documents detailing the liquidation of Jews and other undesirables in territories occupied by Nazi Germany. Testimonies by the victims & perpetrators of that genocide. Censuses. Preserved extermination & concentration camps. Precedents of Nazis targeting its undesirables (Aktion T4, The Nuremberg Race Laws, Boycott of Jewish Businesses etc.) Recorded atrocities in Riga, Babi Yar and many, many other places. Consensus among serious historians who dedicate their lives researching this subject.
Holocaust didn't happen: Jews treated in hospitals bruh. Numbers change bruh. Nitpicking cremation stats bruh. Camps been tampered with bruh. Muh standards bruh. I'm just an honest revisioning bruh.

 

[Bonesjones]

The holocaust happened and it happened in such obvious detail, they forgot to write down all the facts. That's why there's no gassing autopsy reports nor orders from Hitler. All the documents saying don't kill or abuse people are a cover story because the Germans are so evil, so hiveminded in their purpose of the eradication of jews, that they couldn't wait to kill Anne Franke, so they put her in a hospital and treated her typhus while they thought of new and exciting tortures to put upon her. How they ached to one up the holocoaster, the masturbation machine, the electric floors.