The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[History Speaks]

By the way, regarding my earlier allegation that the "Red Cross" document is a forgery (built from a document published by a German government agency, which did not refer to the total deaths in the camps but only a small minority of deaths, i.e. deaths of registered prisoners), please see the Red Cross' response -

"The ICRC . . . has never published - or even compiled - statistics of this kind which are being falsely attributed to it. The work of the ICRC is to help war victims, not to count them."

https://www.tandfonline.com/na101/home/literatum/publisher/tandf/journals/content/rpop20/1978/rpop20.v012.i02/0031322x.1978.9969431/production/0031322x.1978.9969431.fp.png_v03

 

[Certified_Autist]

1) From the advent of Holocaust studies, with the publication of Raul Hilberg (1961), the vast majority of historians have estimated about 1.1 million Jewish deaths in Auschwitz. The 4 million soviet propaganda figure was debunked as early as Reitlinger (1953).

1) So you agree there have been cases where the death toll was intentionally inflated for propaganda purposes?
2) You miss the point of the image, which is that there is a long track record of death numbers at Auschwitz being falsely quoted

2) All lazy copypasta nonsense. Make your own analytical arguments rather than posting a meme. If you think someone else made a good argument paraphrase it.

Address the arguments, shill. I posted the image for a reason, if you can't address those arguments then we all know you're full of shit.

3) This is not true as the western allies found a gas chamber and gassed cadavers in Natzweiler-Struthof.

So a single camp debunks every other one in the pic? Assuming that claim is even correct.

Dachau and Buchenwald may not have had gas chambers, but inmates were certainly exterminated through labor and medical experiments.

Yes, I acknowledged that all concentration camps were labor camps. This was never a point of dispute.

(By the way, the fact that historians and war crimes trials debunked claims of gassing at Dachau and Buchenwald should show you these processes were not frauds.)

It shows that Holocaust claims crumble under scrutiny.

4) The document you posted is a fake, mistranslated from an original German document that is not from the Red Cross. The original document comes from a division of the postwar German government called the Special Registry Office, (Note that in the bottom right corner of your fake document appears the word Sonderstandesamt Arolsen, which is the name of the German government agency responsible for issuing death certificates.) See https://archive.ph/pH5q1#selection-3965.62-3965.87

So it's not from the Red Cross, but from an office that verified deaths? That's the opposite of a "debunk" lol
https://archive.ph/pH5q1#selection-3965.62-3965.87

The real document does not refer to "total deaths" in the camps (as your fake English version says), but "certified deaths", i.e. deaths of registered prisoners.

Registered prisoners, yes, not guards and staff.

At Auschwitz, only Jews selected for work were registered, while the vast majority of Jews were killed right away.

Categorically false, for reasons addressed in the other image you said you didn't read.

5) Nonsense copypasta

Makes perfect sense if you bothered to read it

that does not explain why the demolished ruins of the gas chambers have much greater average deposits of cyanide than other buildings in the camps (excluding delousing chambers)

Because the so-called "gas chambers" were delousing chambers, too.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, this is my view on the Holocaust.

Did Hitler enforce political/social discrimination against Jews, and ultimately put them in labor camps? Yes.
Were Jews forced to be in these labor camps against their will? Yes
Did many people starve to death when the supply lines collapsed? Yes
Was there unethical medical experimentation in the camps? Most likely yes, but the specifics and the scale is questionable.

Did they kill 6 million people with bears in cages, and chambers with electrified floors, and bending shotguns, and rooms of knives, and masturbation machines, and delousing gas, then turn the bodies into soap and lampshades? No.
Were the supposed confessions at the Nuremberg trials obtained -without- torture and/or threats? No.

Is it illegal to question/deny the official story in many nations? Yes.
Is it illegal to exaggerate the official story in many nations? No.
Is there political or financial gain to be had by exaggerating the official story? Absolutely.

Should Hitler have done it to begin with? No.
Did the Allies have similar policies of race-based concentration camps? Yes (Japanese in America)
Are the "winners" going to downplay their own wrongdoings while exaggerating those of their enemies? Absolutely.
Are the people who have the most incentive to demonize Hitler, telling the complete truth about what he did? With zero lies and zero exaggerations? No.

Draw your own conclusion from the above.

 

[History Speaks]

There are plenty of elements to the Holocaust that some leaders in the Jewish community saw as being contrary to their interest and sought to suppress, from the relatively limited scope of resistance (Warsaw Ghetto uprising being an obvious exception), to the extensive role of Jewish kapos and "Jewish councils" in facilitating the genocide. Raul Hilberg was vilified by Yad Vashem for pointing out the indispensible role of the Judenräte and the kapos.

Another bias in our presentation of the Holocaust, imo, is the downplaying of other Nazi genocides against Poles, Russians, and Roma.

But the claim that the Jews were not systematically murdered is completely indefensible on the evidence. It does not matter whose interest it serves to affirm or deny this, clearly the genocide happened. All the documentary, testimonial, forensic, demographic and testimonial evidence corroborates this, and the deniers have no plausile counter explanation for how millions of Jews disappeared in Nazi custody (i.e. in the camp system) during the war.

 

[Stoneheart]

how exactly can you argue that the Nazis were sympathetic to Jews or wouldn't have batted an eyelid at mass executions when Mein Kampf and decades of Nazi speeches label them as the great enemy to the Master Race, followed by the Nuremberg laws and the desecration of religious sites and cemeteries?

they were not welcome anymore, but for most people it was what ""they"" did from 1916 to 1933 that made their blood boil.

As for arguing that it was actually the Soviets who committed the atrocities, how can you argue that when the Soviets had a documented history of evacuating Jews from cities about to be occupied and had Jews in the ranks of the Red Army?

the soviets killed all jews that were not cosmopolitian scum. they also had alot more of them since ukraine and east poland are their homeland.

yeah, the allies didn't focus on bombing the camps, sorry. Even the bombing of rail lines was fairly rare, given how difficult it would be to hit a track from 30,000 feet.

yeah because most Bombing was Terror bombing against towns and cities. I personal think thats a legitimite war tactic, just like removing people who work for the enemy into camps.

If they cared about white people they would care about her and despise her spergy murderers. But what they really care about is Nazi LARPing, not European suffering and death.

the polish are not white, they are slavs....

Another bias in our presentation of the Holocaust, imo, is the downplaying of other Nazi genocides against Poles, Russians, and Roma.

genocides against russians? like the us backed regime in ukraine is doing right now?
also people dont speak about the roma because they are still hated by everyone.

 

[History Speaks]

Hey CertifiedAutist, who wrote the 21 questions thing? I think I will make a video debunking it. Suffice it to say that everything I read there is easily discredited.

I have a few other projects coming up and other videos to do, but look for it in a month or so.

 

[Lemmingwise]

the claim that the Jews were not systematically murdered is completely indefensible on the evidence

Point to the claim, please.

This is not true as the western allies found a gas chamber and gassed cadavers in Natzweiler-Struthof

Is this the only one where you believe there is evidence for a gas chamber west of the US/USSR border?

 

[History Speaks]

Another false denier premise is the idea that the border between the US and Communist Poland was impenetrable from the beginning. The Cold War did not begin until 1947, and the Soviets cooperated with the Western allies in investigation of war crimes including the exterminations at Auschwitz and by the Einsatzgruppen (all in Soviet territory).

Moreover, it is hardly a mystery as to why the death camps were in Poland. The large majority of Jews deported to death camps were Polish Jews, so it makes obvious logistical sense for the Nazis to have done it there. In addition, Nazi occupied Western Europe enjoyed a level of autonomy, whereas Nazi authority in Poland was absolute, making it easier to cover up mass killings in Poland than it would have been in Denmark or Belgium or Luxembourg, etc.

 

[Bonesjones]

Duck and dodge and ignore anything you can't immediately dismiss some more. It's always obvious. So which is it, did they gas every child that came into Aushwitz or did they make up the story of Anne Franke? Either way you are a dirty holocaust denier.

Its unfortunate that the narrative of the Nazi holocaust is so contradictory. It's so easily to deny it completely by accident.

 

[History Speaks]

Duck and dodge and ignore anything you can't immediately dismiss some more. It's always obvious. So which is it, did they gas every child that came into Aushwitz or did they make up the story of Anne Franke? Either way you are a dirty holocaust denier.

Its unfortunate that the narrative of the Nazi holocaust is so contradictory. It's so easily to deny it completely by accident.

Anne Frank was a 15 year old teenager when deported to Auschwitz, not a child. Teenagers are more physically robust than most adults (apart from adults in their 20s and 30s). They can work and were frequently selected for work at Auschwitz, especially in late 1944 when the Germans became especially desperate for labor.

Just because your powers of understanding and subtlety are so limited does not mean you have identified a logical contradiction.

 

[Lemmingwise]

snip

Oh, so you're not even going to say why you suddenly said "the claim that the Jews were not systematically murdered" despite being in response to a post that made no such claim?

How are you going to convince the youngsters if they don't see you engaging in discussion and defending why you say what you say?

 

[Green Man]

Damn, how many more people are going to come in here trying to shill their fucking YouTube channels that no-one will watch?

 

[History Speaks]

Damn, how many more people are going to come in here trying to shill their fucking YouTube channels that no-one will watch?

People will watch. My first video in the series got 360 unique viewers, which is small but a start. This next video is going to be of much better technical quality. Deniers will hate watch, as wil you eventually.

 

[Lemmingwise]

People will watch. My first video in the series got 360 unique viewers, which is small but a start. This next video is going to be of much better technical quality. Deniers will hate watch, as wil you eventually.

This means that nobody watches it, lmao. It's easier to get views filming someone sleeping.

 

[Bonesjones]

Anne Frank was a 15 year old teenager when deported to Auschwitz, not a child. Teenagers are more physically robust than most adults (apart from adults in their 20s and 30s). They can work and were frequently selected for work at Auschwitz, especially in late 1944 when the Germans became especially desperate for labor.

Just because your powers of understanding and subtlety are so limited does not mean you have identified a logical contradiction.

Except she was deported to another camp and put in a hospital. Your powers of manipulation are lacking and fall apart at even the slightest of gaze. So congrats, you are also a holocaust denier. This is how stupid all of this is.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

1) Didn't happen.
2) Even if it did, good.
3) The behaviour of the (((people))) will ensure that it will eventually happen, and they will deserve it still.

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

The holocaust, if it even happened, was just a case of cracker on cracker violence.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

The holocaust, if it even happened, was just a case of cracker on cracker violence.

Kikes aren't white. It's debatable if they're even human really.

 

[History Speaks]

Except she was deported to another camp and put in a hospital. Your powers of manipulation are lacking and fall apart at even the slightest of gaze. So congrats, you are also a holocaust denier. This is how stupid all of this is.

According to the mainstream history, Himmler called off the gassings in late 1944 as the Red Army was approaching Auschwitz, and ordered Jews to be given better care, as part of an attempt to cover up the exterminations. (As part of the cover up, he also ordered the four working gas chambers demolished, which is why they are in ruins today, though the mortar of the demolished buildings still contains considerable traces of hydrogen cyanide, something the deniers cannot explain.)

So Anne Frank being taken care of in a hospital in early 1945 is completely consistent with the mainstream history.

Other Jews were treated in the Auschwitz hospital before the exterminations ceased. But this is also consistent with the mainstream history. The desperate Nazis wanted to economically exploit the Jews before killing them, so if an able bodied Jew could be brought back up to snuff, they would not kill him, and would even treat him. Your problem is explaining why the Jews treated in the hospitals were teenagers or adults, not (until Himmler ordered an end to gassings in late 1944) very old or very young people.

With a handful of exceptions, very young people (children, not teens like 15 year old Anne Frank) simply did not survive Auschwitz. The meme photos you have seen of liberated children are either non-Jews, Jewish twins who had been preserved as guinea pigs for crackpot medical experiments, or Jews who arrived in late 1944 after Himmler's order to stop the gassings.

Deportations from one camp to another are also completely irrelevant and well understood by mainstream historians. The problem you have is explaining how millions of Jews disappeared in the Nazi camp system during the war, deportations from one camp to another do not explain this.

 

[History Speaks]

So many of the dumb Auschwitz memes arise from the fact that very few of the deniers have even read a book about Auschwitz or understand the basic layout of the camp.

Auschwitz was colossal. There were people of multiple nationalities interred there, and the camp itself was vast, and contained 3 subcamps (it was in one of these camps, Birkenau, that the overwhelming majority of Jews were held).

That British POWs in Auschwitz far away from Birkenau may have enjoyed recreation and cultural amenities proves absolutely nothing. Nor does the swimming pool, etc (which of course was not in Birkenau). Nor do stories about delivering non-Jewish babies and taking care of non-Jewish babies in the hospital.

 

[Lemmingwise]

So many of the dumb Auschwitz memes arise from the fact that very few of the deniers have even read a book about Auschwitz or understand the basic layout of the camp.

Most of the memes are the result of reading books, tbh.







Just a couple of weeks ago I was rifling through some books at a second hand bookstore and came across one in which they described living undercover under christian names in the Netherlands, yet still receiving the occasional mail from their family that were deported to auschwitz. I might find that incredible if I relied solely on the mainstream narrative and education on the subject.