The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Ferryman]

I'm running it, but at this point that's only because I haven't got round to replacing it yet. As @Aljam mentioned, they have a habit of breaking shit for retarded reasons (which I could sort of live with, that's partly the price of a rolling distro) but they combine that with the archetypal "That question was answered in 2022, noob" non-support forums.
Honestly, I've finally had enough: I'm just pondering what to try next. I'll probably take Endeavour for a test drive, and/or Devuan if my systemd autism kicks in, but honestly OG Arch is going to be less work and grief than Manjaro.

If you're already comfortable with non hand-holdy systems, may I suggest Slackware? Though it isn't rolling release, you can get pretty much any cutting-edge software running on it if you're comfortable with compiling things by hand. Think of it like the middle child of Debian and Gentoo: all the stability of the former, all (most of the) user freedom of the latter.

 

[Betonhaus]

If i have an intel RST laptop would it be fine to install Linux Mint with / to the 32gb high speed ssd and /home to the other 512gb ssd?

 

[Vesperus]

If you're already comfortable with non hand-holdy systems, may I suggest Slackware? Though it isn't rolling release, you can get pretty much any cutting-edge software running on it if you're comfortable with compiling things by hand. Think of it like the middle child of Debian and Gentoo: all the stability of the former, all (most of the) user freedom of the latter.

I'm toying with the idea of re-visiting all the distros I've used in the past and seeing if anything grabs me now, so I might well give it a poke.
The downside to that is, that list is currently: Mint, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, Mandriva, PCLOS, Slackware, Red Hat, Mageia, Gentoo & Arch (I've probably forgotten a few) so by the time I've finished there'll be new versions of them coming out...
Maybe I should go with FreeBSD just to collect the set.

If i have an intel RST laptop would it be fine to install Linux Mint with / to the 32gb high speed ssd and /home to the other 512gb ssd?

I think you have to switch it from RST to AHCI in the bios first, but otherwise it sounds sane. Don't do that if you're dual booting with windows, you'll bork it.

 

[Ferryman]

I'm toying with the idea of re-visiting all the distros I've used in the past and seeing if anything grabs me now, so I might well give it a poke.
The downside to that is, that list is currently: Mint, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, Mandriva, PCLOS, Slackware, Red Hat, Mageia, Gentoo & Arch (I've probably forgotten a few) so by the time I've finished there'll be new versions of them coming out...
Maybe I should go with FreeBSD just to collect the set.

Hey man, if Slack and Gentoo are too familiar, there's always Source Mage or Linux from Scratch if you wanna go even more minimal. BSD could be fun, so could GUIX, or even MINIX, though I'm certain that's as low as you can go without going the way of Terry Davis.

 

[Vesperus]

MINIX

Jesus, way to make me feel old, dude.
*googles*
Hey, it's not totally dead yet. I may actually give that a poke.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

I'd like to preface that before I start the init and compiler wars. I'd like to preface it that I'm trying to optimize for a niche specific situation. This involves cross-compiles from amd64 with somewhat limited memory/cpu power to RISC-V/MIPS

1) Does anyone have a preference or experience with s6+66 and/or dinit versus systemd and/or opernrc? Particularly in slackware, LFS, or Gentoo. Memory footprint and stability is important

2) Anyone have any tips for optimization on LLVM?

 

[Another Char Clone]

1) Does anyone have a preference or experience with s6+66 and/or dinit versus systemd and/or opernrc? Particularly in slackware, LFS, or Gentoo. Memory footprint and stability is important

For gentoo, it should default to openrc so long as you select any non-systemd profiles. openrc is pretty mature when I was using it, the only annoyance is occasional service crashes like PPP not automatically starting back, but I fault that more with my ISP being a shit than anything. You can write supervised openrc services which uses s6 in the background, you can also run s6 for your user services, it depends how autistic you want to go.

 

[Beanie]

A lot of clickbait YouTubers call a separate project, Bazzite, SteamOS to get the reddit soy clicks but it's a third party project trying to mimic steamOS. SteamOS runs a very outdated kernel and package set and is atomic so you cant easily install new packages (it doesn't even have an rpm-ostree like system), this means trying to run it on your new fancy gaming rig even if you could would make shit break. Also no HDR support.

I'm running Bazzite on my main laptop, it's basically a Fedora Atomic spin with Steam and other gaming-related patches thrown in. I had to get used to not being able to easily customize it on a system level (rpm-ostree is super slow, and they're going to replace it with bootc), and it relies on Flatpaks and Distrobox for running most software. Apart from their marketing, it's nothing that Nobara or Ultramarine Linux can't handle.

The devs made the same mistake with their keys that Kali Linux did back in July 2024.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

I'd like to preface that before I start the init and compiler wars. I'd like to preface it that I'm trying to optimize for a niche specific situation. This involves cross-compiles from amd64 with somewhat limited memory/cpu power to RISC-V/MIPS

1) Does anyone have a preference or experience with s6+66 and/or dinit versus systemd and/or opernrc? Particularly in slackware, LFS, or Gentoo. Memory footprint and stability is important

2) Anyone have any tips for optimization on LLVM?

Ime openrc does have a smaller memory foot print, compared to systemd. Runit is about as fast as it gets when it comes to boot times. Though it does keep extra processes along with services to monitor them. So that does have an extra 1mb or so per service, compared to openrc. Whether that matters or not is up to you.

Openrc I think is the simplest to actually use coming into a non-systemd init if you are used to systemd. In general it's pretty easy to understand.

Stability wise. This is just my experience but I haven't seen any problems with that for either. The only thing I can think of would be starting openrc in parallel mode rather than synchronously you can have some race conditions with services. Though, those are pretty rare and you can fix that by editing in the init.d to tell it which services rely on others. Or just not using it in a parallel, you just gain and extra second or two in boot time.

I'm running Bazzite on my main laptop, it's basically a Fedora Atomic spin with Steam and other gaming-related patches thrown in. I had to get used to not being able to easily customize it on a system level (rpm-ostree is super slow, and they're going to replace it with bootc), and it relies on Flatpaks and Distrobox for running most software. Apart from their marketing, it's nothing that Nobara or Ultramarine Linux can't handle.

The devs made the same mistake with their keys that Kali Linux did back in July 2024.

Coming from being a normal Linux distro user. I REALLY hate the way these distros work.

And thinking about people purposely installing bazzite, or steamos if that becomes a normal thing. Even worse than the already shit silver blue way of doing things. I guess I could understand it if people literally want to have their PC just be a gaming console. But if they want to actually use it as a PC, it seems like gamers making the most retarded choice available to them because they aren't able to think outside of, "steam make Linux good" box.

If I was stuck only having to use a distro like silverblue or bazzite. I would literally go back to windows, or maybe do freebsd (God forbid that 10 years behind Linux on the desktop piece of shit)

 

[ZMOT]

If you say that Linux is a different OS, that you need to essentially go back to the time when you first started using Windows as a kid for a while, and there are tradeoffs to be made when using it, you'd get AKSHULLY'd on every single point by people with too much time on their hands.

because AKSHUALLY they're right. keep in mind how the average normalfag interacts with the underlying OS. all things considered fucking windows 11 looks and feels "less" windows than cinnamon or kde.
I mean what does the average person even do? click the bottom left for the start menu, then the entry that says email/internet/office? maybe the icon on the desktop?
if they install a program and get a cryptic error message, you think they gonna google it and try to figure out what it means and how to fix it? nah, they'll call a relative/"dude that knows computers" in their social circle or outright go to a store, they got no time for that "technical stuff".

there's no starting from scratch because the whole UX is more the same than it isn't - stupid questions like "bro how do I run photoshop, it's the only way I know how to crop images!" notwithstanding.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

because AKSHUALLY they're right. keep in mind how the average normalfag interacts with the underlying OS. all things considered fucking windows 11 looks and feels "less" windows than cinnamon or kde.
I mean what does the average person even do? click the bottom left for the start menu, then the entry that says email/internet/office? maybe the icon on the desktop?
if they install a program and get a cryptic error message, you think they gonna google it and try to figure out what it means and how to fix it? nah, they'll call a relative/"dude that knows computers" in their social circle or outright go to a store, they got no time for that "technical stuff".

there's no starting from scratch because the whole UX is more the same than it isn't - stupid questions like "bro how do I run photoshop, it's the only way I know how to crop images!" notwithstanding.

Yeah both are kind of right.

Linux is a different operating system. So don't expect everything to be exactly like windows. Because it isn't. It being different than windows, is the point. Otherwise, use windows.

But the people saying you don't need to start from the beginning and relearn everything are right too. If you just go with the normal beginner recommendation, of either mint or Ubuntu. You really don't need to relearn that much. Because you get a GUI, which people just intuitively know how to use most of the time, for the non technical tasks they are probably going to be doing most of the time. The only things they might need to relearn in that case. Are the program names they want/need to use. And how to install software on the operating system they chose. But it's not like completely starting over from not knowing how to use a computer.

Where people might need to actually relearn a lot more, is if people want to install minimal distros, or trying to start messing with lower level stuff in their system, diving into learning the terminal if they choose to.

 

[nut butter]

You really don't need to relearn that much. Because you get a GUI, which people just intuitively know how to use most of the time, for the non technical tasks they are probably going to be doing most of the time. The only things they might need to relearn in that case. Are the program names they want/need to use. And how to install software on the operating system they chose. But it's not like completely starting over from not knowing how to use a computer.

Where people might need to actually relearn a lot more, is if people want to install minimal distros, or trying to start messing with lower level stuff in their system, diving into learning the terminal if they choose to.

All the small little fixes and diagnostic tools that an above-average Windows user knows how to use are different, and that is the biggest frustration multiplier for people starting out with Linux.

People who will take their computer to geeksquad to get it updated to the new version of Windows aren't going to install Linux ever, however they are also the type of person who will see literally no difference between opening their web browser to watch youtube or use google docs assuming they do end up using Linux for some reason. Those aren't the people who will ever install Linux or try to troubleshoot anything in Linux. The people who are savvy enough to open device manager and poke around if their USB port is fucky, or people who will go into task manager to try and disable startup programs to try and make Windows boot a little faster, are by-far the lions-share of people who are going to install Linux and try to use it. They're also going to be the ones who have to relearn a massive amount of new information about their computer in order to fix all the little issues that they could fix easily in Windows, and that's the most likely group of people who are going to fuck something up in Linux because they're trying to run before they can walk in a Unix system thinking that being savvy in Windows means you're savvy with computers in general.

A hypothetical average new Linux user can just use the system as though it were Windows just switching out a couple of programs, but that's a phantom audience. People like that don't install Linux, and if they are using Linux and have an issue, they'll call whatever Linux enjoyer installed Linux on their system if something breaks. It's true that Linux really isn't that hard to use or learn, but recovering from mistakes and fixing weird little errors is usually a different process in Linux compared to Windows, and people who already know how to fix issues on Windows are exactly the people who are installing Linux and running into weird edge-case issues, and the people who are going to get frustrated with their busted-ass install and want to go back to the system they've put time into getting used to.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

A hypothetical average new Linux user can just use the system as though it were Windows just switching out a couple of programs, but that's a phantom audience

I was that user when I came to linux. I went into linux knowing nothing. Other than I didn't like windows, google, etc. I started with mint. Knew literally nothing, but for the normie tasks I was going to use on windows. It worked, didn't need any extra messing around. And I ended up being glad I moved over.

Then I slowly got more interested in what I can actually do with my linux system, after seeing everything else other people were able to do. And over time I've learned a lot just from the curiosity that came from that.

I didn't come to linux because of free software necessarily. At least I didn't really know what that was. What I did know was I didn't want to use windows, didn't like continuously being the product that companies like google are selling ( hard to escape that while being online), and linux seemed like it was the obvious choice. The only reason I didn't install it sooner than I did, was I saw people making it sound like it was some super hard to use thing, and I was worried I wasn't going to be able to actually use it.

 

[nut butter]

The only reason I didn't install it sooner than I did, was I saw people making it sound like it was some super hard to use thing, and I was worried I wasn't going to be able to actually use it.

That is a good point. It isn't that Linux is super hard to use, it's just different. It's hard to communicate that in a way that like girds potential Linux users for troubleshooting issues to be more confusing and annoying than what they're used to, but also encourages them to fire up an installer and take the plunge.

 

[Plastic Bag]

But the people saying you don't need to start from the beginning and relearn everything are right too. If you just go with the normal beginner recommendation, of either mint or Ubuntu. You really don't need to relearn that much.

I don't like the discourse of "oh man, use Mint if you're used to Windows" because things like Debian or Ubuntu and even to an extent Arch, are not as scary as they're made out to be. You would have the impression that Mint is a graphical interface like Windows, and that the rest are complex CLI, where you have to build everything. I really don't know why people do that, it's so comforting when you take the plunge into Debian and realise it's literally just an older-looking Windows/MacOS, except you have more control over your system.
I've seen a few "moving over to Linux" videos, and they use Mint, get bored, go "what am I getting out of this over Windows?" and then go right back.

 

[jONALD]

Distro hopping retardation needs to be cured before anyone begs a windows user to take the jump to a better OS.

 

[El Goblina]

https://github.com/Stefan20162016/linux-insides-code/ -- found this stage1 kernel-loader ASM project the other day. Maybe some of y'all will like this.

 

[Betonhaus]

I don't like the discourse of "oh man, use Mint if you're used to Windows" because things like Debian or Ubuntu and even to an extent Arch, are not as scary as they're made out to be. You would have the impression that Mint is a graphical interface like Windows, and that the rest are complex CLI, where you have to build everything. I really don't know why people do that, it's so comforting when you take the plunge into Debian and realise it's literally just an older-looking Windows/MacOS, except you have more control over your system.
I've seen a few "moving over to Linux" videos, and they use Mint, get bored, go "what am I getting out of this over Windows?" and then go right back.

Ultimately that's going to be the biggest hurdle for Linux, that it's adoption heavily relies on the alternatives being shit. A computer is a tool first and foremost for people, not a toy. Most people want a Honda Civic or a Grand Caravan that's boring but does its job, not a Corvette or some vintage car they spend every day working on. And for most people there is just enough of a hurdle for Linux that makes it not worth the jump. Heck even me a while back I tried Linux Mint for a month and concluded it was perfectly useable, but switched back to Windows because I simply didn't see the need to make the jump - up until a couple months later when Windows royally pissed me off with its ass. Even then when I set up my ThinkPad to dive to my dad I was surprised how things like the LTE modem and fingerprint scanner just worked without having to fuss with it a lot.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

I don't like the discourse of "oh man, use Mint if you're used to Windows" because things like Debian or Ubuntu and even to an extent Arch, are not as scary as they're made out to be. You would have the impression that Mint is a graphical interface like Windows, and that the rest are complex CLI, where you have to build everything. I really don't know why people do that, it's so comforting when you take the plunge into Debian and realise it's literally just an older-looking Windows/MacOS, except you have more control over your system.
I've seen a few "moving over to Linux" videos, and they use Mint, get bored, go "what am I getting out of this over Windows?" and then go right back.

Because some people do actually see all the different distros existing as confusing, and I've heard people give it as a reason to not use linux. Mint is a perfect starting point. And it's what the average person will probably need from their computer. It baby's people just enough that they can feel comfortable using their computer still, out of the box. But at the same time. If someone want's more from it, it doesn't stop you from doing whatever you want.

There is only a very specific kind of person that would want to install debian right out of the gate, and an even more specific type of person that would go with arch. And either, will probably get their on their own. I would especially recommend mint over debian to a new user that doesn't know too much. It has a gui that pops up on the first install, that lets you run through things like installing missing drivers, basically managing every part of your system, updates. etc.

 

[teriyakiburns]

https://github.com/Stefan20162016/linux-insides-code/ -- found this stage1 kernel-loader ASM project the other day. Maybe some of y'all will like this.

absolute madlad.