The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Fcret]

It's not the responsibility of Linux users to teach you how to not be a mouthbreathing normienigger retard with computers. There's more than enough documentation out there that even middling IQ children can comfortably run and use Linux nowadays, and there's zero reason a grown adult should not be able to figure stuff out.

If you can't read a 1500 word wiki entry, then you should just stay on Windows.

 

[Akerman]

My best advice to new users is to learn to troubleshoot effectively, get familiar with strace and dmesg. I fixed a Python issue myself using strace and LLMs and I am still relatively new to the Linux world and I am also no expert in programming. LLMs are game changers if used sensibly and with the correct methods. They can at times make issues legible and easy to fix, all I did was output the strace to a file then asked it to analyze it for me. It scoured the jargon, converted it to English then found the issue and gave me a fix. I ran it, and it fixed my issue. This takes some getting used to, is not foolproof, but if you hate dealing with Linux nerds (I don't entirely blame you) I recommend trying it. The bonus is that if you also ask it to teach you what it did, and you actually read it you can also learn way more about your system that way too and ask for documentation sources relating to it so you can read further on man pages.

For visual learners, I think my favorite new channel to learn Linux right now is Bread on* Penguins. Real cozy vids.

 

[Slav Power]

To me, making Linux into something completely compatible with windows, isn't progress.

I'd say making Wine actually "just work" transparently where you can't tell if you ran a Linux binary or a WinPE would be progress, since you can already run Linux software under Windows, so having the opposite would only be beneficial to all ecosystems since by the end of the day your choice of which core OS runs on bare metal will matter on your personal knowledge and needs, but this cross-OS software interoperability is only a good thing. An OS is meant to run software that a user needs to do their work and do it well, so if Linux can achieve that by having Windows software interoperability, it strengthens it's viability for both home and enterprise users.

Of course, if you are a religious zealot and you don't actually use your operating system to run software but to have a false sense of smug superiority, then of course it would be a regress.

And I defend those videos.

I don't. IIRC he used Pop!_OS which is an extremely gay Ubuntu fork where you really shouldn't use anything but Mint and they had a major fuckup in the package manager where for some reason it would consider just about every package of the OS a dependency of Steam. So when he wanted to uninstall Steam, it would try to essentially uninstall the entire OS, and the package manager had a safeguard against this, explicitly telling you that if you go through with it you will fuck your shit up. If Faggot took five seconds of his precious time to read and comprehend what just popped up, he wouldn't fuck over his OS. But he just went "I know what I'm doing", fucked his shit up and then bitched that it was Linux's fault.

Faggot has the exact same tech illiterate mentality that led to his channel getting hacked. Nigger would just blindly doubleclick "hot_teen_action.mov.exe" he downloaded off of The Pirate Bay, then bitch at Microsoft that he got WannaCry all over his network or whatever. The average normie can barely use Windows, so don't be surprised if they fuck something up in Linux that requires you to at least have a rudimentary understanding of what you're using. Remember that those are the same people that aren't even aware you can install or reinstall Windows fresh yourself and only the people at the computer store they got their machine from have the divine knowledge to do it. And you're expecting them to install and use Linux.

By the way, Mint has a GUI package manager through which you can install Steam, and IIRC it autohandles Nvidia drivers nowadays, but like I said, even that is too much for the average user that struggles with Windows. All the Linuxfags that default to the "stick with Windows" defense should crawl out of their NEET caves, take a look around and get a reality check. Those "people" need iPhones, Windows gives them too much control for their own good.

You know, ignoring all the linux users, including on this site, that have been trying to save windows users from the sinking ship that is Microsoft, but sure.

Read above. You'd be doing yourself a favor by dissuading them from using Windows or Linux altogether. Or you can try to eat your cake and have it by trying to "save" them to achieve Year of the Linux™ and then bitching you're being ran over by complete nigger cattle that can't do the most basic diagnostic steps themselves. If they can't pass the "I understand basic tech" litmus test, they need an iPhone.

 

[Fcret]

I'd say making Wine actually "just work" transparently where you can't tell if you ran a Linux binary or a WinPE would be progress, since you can already run Linux software under Windows, so having the opposite would only be beneficial to all ecosystems since by the end of the day your choice of which core OS runs on bare metal will matter on your personal knowledge and needs, but this cross-OS software interoperability is only a good thing. An OS is meant to run software that a user needs to do their work and do it well, so if Linux can achieve that by having Windows software interoperability, it strengthens it's viability for both home and enterprise users.

The big problem with that is that Windows is closed-source and not interested in interoperability. Wine as a project is built upon many years of having to reverse engineer Windows and figure out how it actually does things under the hood since the Win32 API often outright lies to you or software makes use of undocumented functionality (which Microsoft encouraged in the past).

Beyond that, Microsoft somewhat cheats here as WSL2 is run inside a hyper-v container so it's not the same as Wine. A lot of intensive graphical Linux software also doesn't work in it due to GPU virtualization not being particularly well-supported under Windows. In fact, the situation with running Linux software on Windows is significantly worse than running Windows software in Linux once you move beyond the command-line realm (and that's not even getting into WSL2's spotty support for things like systemd).

 

[Ferryman]

For visual learners, I think my favorite new channel to learn Linux right now is Bread on* Penguins. Real cozy vids.

Dangerously based. Though more generic coding, Tsoding is also a personal favorite. Josh's old programming streams are also pure kino if you're a MATI enjoyer.

 

[Judge Dredd]

On the topic of the Linus video years ago.

IIRC he used Pop!_OS which is an extremely gay Ubuntu fork where you really shouldn't use anything but Mint

Correct. And he chose it because he was told it made using Nvidia hardware a breeze, instead of having to fuck around with drivers.

But when it went bad for him, it was blamed on a bug.

Also, the other guy did use Mint, and when he ran into issues like multiple monitors being weird, or moving windows causing the system to lag, he was blamed for a bug and not being fair to linux.

they had a major fuckup in the package manager where for some reason it would consider just about every package of the OS a dependency of Steam. So when he wanted to uninstall Steam, it would try to essentially uninstall the entire OS, and the package manager had a safeguard against this, explicitly telling you that if you go through with it you will fuck your shit up. If Faggot took five seconds of his precious time to read and comprehend what just popped up, he wouldn't fuck over his OS.

Linux users seem to forget that the challenge was to use Linux with only the resources a normie would have access too, and document the experience. And to a new user, even one who works with computers, it looks like a bunch of word vomit, and when he googled the error, the solution he was told to use to type "do as I say", which uninstalled his desktop. At what point did he do something unreasonable?

You know, ignoring all the linux users, including on this site, that have been trying to save windows users from the sinking ship that is Microsoft, but sure.

I don't blame you, it's stuff like this-

You'd be doing yourself a favor by dissuading them from using Windows or Linux altogether. Or you can try to eat your cake and have it by trying to "save" them to achieve Year of the Linux™ and then bitching you're being ran over by complete nigger cattle that can't do the most basic diagnostic steps themselves.

I hear over and over again that distro doesn't matter. But when someone chooses a distro (Pop OS in the case of Linus), suddenly it's fuck you, should have used Mint and you're nigger cattle if you encounter a bug.

To the outsider looking in, it's like the Linux community is made entirely of hipsters. Constantly telling people to listen to some obscure band, and then getting mad once they start getting mainstream. I've been hearing over and over and over how people should jump to Linux, how it's "It's the year of the linux desktop!", but each time it didn't pan out for me. Now there's been three big leaps in adoption. PewDiePie, SteamOS, and Win 11. And the Linux communities response? "PewDiePie is a racist!" "SteamOS sucks!" "You shouldn't want to game on Linux!" "Fuck off back to Windows!"

I said this a bunch of pages ago, but even well meaning people sometimes fall into this trap. I don't know your post history, so I don't know if you've done this personally, but it's why I reference the whole "You shouldn't want to do X" thing so much. Again, in the Linus video, it's when they try to play Supreme Commander. "You shouldn't want to play that game because it's old/made in java."

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

You shouldn't want to game on Linux

Yeah. I'm sure the entire linux community is saying that. All over the internet.


Your saying all this shit like "the year of the linux desktop" needs to happen. If people want to use it, fine, they don't, great windows is still there for them. Who actually gives a fuck?

People that are going to actually use linux, and stick with it. Are probably going to actually put the effort into finding the help, or documentation they need. The one's that want to install it because they saw PewDiePie use it, and only that. Are probably going to give up once they hit their first actual issue. If the only reason they installed it was their gay internet gaming daddy said linux is good. People that have a reason they want to use it, other than just trying something they saw someone they liked using (basically a fad), are going to be a lot more likely to actually have a reason to keep using it.

And who said steamos sucks? All I've seen, including myself. Is saying if you are trying to install steamos on a desktop. You're a retard. Doubly so, if you are doing it because you listened to Linus Tech Tips of all people.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

So just install any distro

Thanks for illustrating the concept of totally missing the point.

99% of computer users don't even update their PC, so asking them on install one themselves is automatic failure.

 

[Ferryman]

While there is no "proper" way to use Linux, there should always, always be some measure of technical know-how needed to work your computer. The eternal dumbing down of tech use has only worsened the growing global competency crisis in more ways than one, the least of which is turning people into subservient nigger cattle by removing "distractions" such as being able to move your taskbar in the case of Win 11, so that you can focus more on "productivity" or "doing your job". If people are too "busy" (read:mentally enslaved) to learn how their machine works, then they should be cordoned off to the Mac cattle corner.

If they can't pass the "I understand basic tech" litmus test, they need an iPhone.

Agreed. Saar do not be redeeming the config saar it works out of the box you do not need to tinkertranny saaar Mac just works saaaaaar very good coding contribute opaan source saaar.

99% of computer users don't even update their PC, so asking them on install one themselves is automatic failure.

How do you even fix this in 2020+5? Most normies these days want instant satisfaction and devices that immediately work out of the box with 0 user input. By default that disincentivizes knowing your machine. And it doesn't help that both MacOS and Windows are increasingly turning into walled gardens that prevent low level system modification. How do you make it worthwhile for normies to want to tinker with their tech?

 

[Samuel Fuller]

While there is no "proper" way to use Linux, there should always, always be some measure of technical know-how needed to work your computer. The eternal dumbing down of tech use has only worsened the growing global competency crisis in more ways than one, the least of which is turning people into subservient nigger cattle by removing "distractions" such as being able to move your taskbar in the case of Win 11, so that you can focus more on "productivity" or "doing your job". If people are too "busy" (read:mentally enslaved) to learn how their machine works, then they should be cordoned off to the Mac cattle corner.

Agreed. Saar do not be redeeming the config saar it works out of the box you do not need to tinkertranny saaar Mac just works saaaaaar very good coding contribute opaan source saaar.

How do you even fix this in 2020+5? Most normies these days want instant satisfaction and devices that immediately work out of the box with 0 user input. By default that disincentivizes knowing your machine. And it doesn't help that both MacOS and Windows are increasingly turning into walled gardens that prevent low level system modification. How do you make it worthwhile for normies to want to tinker with their tech?

"Normies" don't need to tinker with their tech and are usually better off not doing so, so fuck making them want to.

And if you sincerely believe the idiocy you posted about Macs, you're insanely uninformed. If you know what you are doing on it, MacOS has all the powerful tools a UNIX environment provides with a decent userland experience. Don't need to use a terminal to do what you need to? Fine. Never open the terminal and you can keep going in the GUI. Want to do something the userland secuirty features doesn't give options for? Use the terminal, there is always a way to accomplish what you are trying to do.

I guess neckbeards who can't afford good hardware need something to cry about though, so keep spewing stupidity while thinking you know it all. It is amusing.

 

[Rust Troony]

Thanks for illustrating the concept of totally missing the point.

99% of computer users don't even update their PC, so asking them on install one themselves is automatic failure.

"99% of users dont update their computers, so therefore when switching to linux they should just install SteamOS, they cant fathom installing anything else!"

You are retarded.

I guess neckbeards who can't afford good hardware need something to cry about though

"Macs are goodest of hardware that's price right SAAR"

Point proven.

 

[Slav Power]

The big problem with that is that Windows is closed-source and not interested in interoperability. Wine as a project is built upon many years of having to reverse engineer Windows and figure out how it actually does things under the hood since the Win32 API often outright lies to you or software makes use of undocumented functionality (which Microsoft encouraged in the past).

Beyond that, Microsoft somewhat cheats here as WSL2 is run inside a hyper-v container so it's not the same as Wine. A lot of intensive graphical Linux software also doesn't work in it due to GPU virtualization not being particularly well-supported under Windows. In fact, the situation with running Linux software on Windows is significantly worse than running Windows software in Linux once you move beyond the command-line realm (and that's not even getting into WSL2's spotty support for things like systemd).

That's not the point I was making. I am aware it's a difficult task, but the point is better Windows software compatibility on Linux is ultimately a good thing, and to be against it is to not treat your operating system as what it is, a toolset to run the software that you personally need to do your work and do it well, but as a replacement for your lack of personality, where any sign of Linux becoming "more like Windows" is seen as a direct attack on your ego.

It's a neatly vague term that doesn't only focus on the bad ways you'd make Linux more like Windows, like redoing the kernel to work more like the hybrid kernel that is Windows NT, to good ways like making Wine better and more transparent to the end user. It's not that someone is afraid that Linux will be worse due to copying all the wrong ideas of Windows, is that someone is afraid that Linux won't be this esoteric Rubik's cube that only they can solve. They're not people who you want in the Linux community, they're the cancerous cyst that's slowly poisoning it that should be removed if you actually wish for good, functioning software.

 

[Ferryman]

I guess neckbeards who can't afford good hardware need something to cry about though, so keep spewing stupidity while thinking you know it all. It is amusing.

Hello Jay "Nigger" Irwin! Think you got the wrong door, the shitting street is two blocks down: https://boards.4chan.org/g/. Don't forget to bump your hourly Mac shill thread!

Jokes aside, MacOS is the #1 clearest example of tech enshittification. It prevents you from running non-apple distros on apple hardware, forces you into the Mac ecosystem, creates a device that scrunches you into a box that you HAVE to work in, then data harvests you because if you use Microsoft/Windows, say it with me: YOU ARE THE PRODUCT. If I can't audit and compile my kernel, then into the bin it goes. And saying "price = performance" is also retarded. Consumerism has turned people into "consume product and get excited for new product" cattle. I can bet top dollar that the vast majority of people today can easily do all they need to do on hardware from at least ~5 years ago, if not older. But yeah, sure, buy more Crapple shit with soldered ram, storage and superglued batteries.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Crapple

I bet typing that made you think you deserve an extra tendie tonight.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Your saying all this shit like "the year of the linux desktop" needs to happen.

Never said that. Try again.

Who actually gives a fuck?

You, and linux fans, if the internet is anything to go by.

If the only reason they installed it was their gay internet gaming daddy said linux is good.

There it is again.

And who said steamos sucks? All I've seen, including myself. Is saying if you are trying to install steamos on a desktop. You're a retard. Doubly so, if you are doing it because you listened to Linus Tech Tips of all people.

And again.

I'll put it as simply as I can. Do you care if people use Linux or not?

And by "you", I mean A: you personally, and B: the Linux community as a whole.


The answer to B, from what I have seen, is yes. The Linux community cares a lot. They put a lot of effort into persuading people to use it. Which is all the more baffling why, any time there is a spike of interest and adoption, the Linux community turns feral. This has happened repeatedly.

 

[Fcret]

Jokes aside, MacOS is the #1 clearest example of tech enshittification. It prevents you from running non-apple distros on apple hardware, forces you into the Mac ecosystem, creates a device that scrunches you into a box that you HAVE to work in, then data harvests you because if you use Microsoft/Windows, say it with me: YOU ARE THE PRODUCT. If I can't audit and compile my kernel, then into the bin it goes

You can install Linux just fine on Macs tho. There's basically no restrictions on what you can boot.

the point is better Windows software compatibility on Linux is ultimately a good thing

Most Windows software is poorly-written garbage and the world would be better off without it. Pretty much all software that matters already runs fine on Wine and anything that doesn't is a failure on the part of the original engineers who made it rather than the wine team.

redoing the kernel to work more like the hybrid kernel that is Windows NT

Nope, garbage take. The monolithic design ensures that hardware vendors can't cuck you and try to planned obsolescence you by not releasing drivers for newer operating systems. Kernel modules being required to be in source code form integrated into the kernel's source tree means that hardware that worked on Linux 20 years ago is still probably working on Linux just fine today.

The idea that we need to 'compromise' with hardware vendors by giving them a vehicle to release closed-source pluggable drivers that will quickly become unusable is retarded. Here's my compromise - I'll buy your shit if you have drivers in the mainline kernel. Otherwise you can fuck off.

 

[Slav Power]

Most Windows software is poorly-written garbage

The software that you use is not the software that millions of other people use. Try learning how to look at something from someone else's perspective. Sometimes this "poorly-written garbage" has to be used by someone, it only exists on Windows and there is no magic FOSS alternative.

Nope, garbage take.

Everything you've said after that was an answer to a take that wasn't made.

It's a neatly vague term that doesn't only focus on the bad ways you'd make Linux more like Windows, like redoing the kernel to work more like the hybrid kernel that is Windows NT, to good ways like making Wine better and more transparent to the end user.

Re-read this entire quote and try to spot your mistake. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've been locked in an emotional trance where you couldn't read with comprehension instead of purposefully quoting me out of context to make a strawman argument.

 

[snotang]

I'll put it as simply as I can. Do you care if people use Linux or not?

And by "you", I mean A: you personally, and B: the Linux community as a whole.


The answer to B, from what I have seen, is yes. The Linux community cares a lot. They put a lot of effort into persuading people to use it. Which is all the more baffling why, any time there is a spike of interest and adoption, the Linux community turns feral. This has happened repeatedly.

The cardinal sin of analyzing populations is assuming that just because you refer to them uniformly (e.g. "the Linux community") they are therefore uniform. It is perfectly coherent for different people that happen to use Linux to have different opinions on the direction it and its associated communities should take.

But I should also point out that even if it were the same person expressing both a desire for more people to use Linux, and a desire for those new to Linux to be willing to adapt, there is nothing contradictory about these desires.

It's the Henry Ford mindset: newfags should assimilate or stay home. If the first thing you do upon reaching the land of the free is start bitching about how the place needs to be more like the place you left, don't expect the locals to be happy about it.

I want more people to use Linux (and free software more generally). This comes from a desire to see people gain more control over and freedom in their computing. It's not because I think I or anybody like me "needs" them to, or because I think it's a drop-in replacement for everything they do.

If you want to see what "more people using Linux, but without assimilating" looks like, look no farther than Android, where not only can users usually not replace the bootloader, they can't even install an alternative OS, and on the OS they do have, they can't even run anything as root, and they legitimately advocate for all of this. This, to my understanding, represents even less control and freedom than Windows - even Windows users can usually be counted on to figure out installing an ad blocker after you mention it to them a few times.

But hey, at least Android users have games, and that's what really matters, right?

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Never said that. Try again.


You, and linux fans, if the internet is anything to go by.


There it is again.

And again.

I'll put it as simply as I can. Do you care if people use Linux or not?

And by "you", I mean A: you personally, and B: the Linux community as a whole.


The answer to B, from what I have seen, is yes. The Linux community cares a lot. They put a lot of effort into persuading people to use it. Which is all the more baffling why, any time there is a spike of interest and adoption, the Linux community turns feral. This has happened repeatedly.

If you can't understand where my exact stance on this is. I'll explain it. I've already said it in this thread. Pages back now.

I don't care what people use. I think giving a fuck what other people run is gay. Whether it's them running windows, apple, or Linux. Why should I care? I personally hate windows and Apple. But I could care less if Linux gets wider adoption. I think that's about as gay, as people caring if someone else uses debian, or arch.

I will give people advice to tech support if I get asked for it. But if someone needs a Linux cheerleader to tell them to keep using it. It's perfect. That is never going to be me. Especially if they don't know why they are using Linux. I will just tell people to use windows at that point.

But I think just telling people to blindly install Linux. Is probably overall bad. If they have no idea what they are doing it, why they should do it. What potential issues they could be in for. And if their use case even makes sense to run Linux.

So if you are going to speak about what "Linux people" want, as if everyone that runs it is going to want the same thing. You are going to be wrong every tine. Because a lot of very different people use it for very different reasons. There are rust troons using nixos and putting anime in every part of their system that they can, to minimalist users running a window manager with no wallpaper, sys admins running 20 containers with Debian, Ubuntu or redhat, to normies running Linux mint to watch Netflix in their browser.

In case you still aren't clear. I will summarize. No I don't personally care if anyone moves to Linux. I'm willing to help people that want to. And how I feel about it, isn't speaking for anyone else, but myself, and definitely isn't the opinion of whatever Linux community you are talking about.

 

[Slav Power]

The cardinal sin of analyzing populations is assuming that just because you refer to them uniformly (e.g. "the Linux community") they are therefore uniform.

If you want to see what "more people using Linux, but without assimilating" looks like, look no farther than Android, where not only can users usually not replace the bootloader, they can't even install an alternative OS, and on the OS they do have, they can't even run anything as root, and they legitimately advocate for all of this. This, to my understanding, represents even less control and freedom than Windows - even Windows users can usually be counted on to figure out installing an ad blocker after you mention it to them a few times.

Weird. My Android phone is rooted, I have AdAway applying hosts lists system-wide thanks to root access, if I wanted to I could flash a custom ROM on it, but instead I riced it out with apps that utilize root access to modify the system UI. I also do various hacks and tricks in Windows as it isn't a locked down black box and it still gives me a fair bit of freedom to dick around with the OS.

Why is it that you assume Android/Windows users can't do anything with their operating systems after rightly stating that generalizing a group won't make your generalization hold truth? Perhaps you should start holding others to the same standard that you hold yourself to.