The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Overly Serious]

with the deck news, I've been motivated to try linux on my personal computer again. I've tried it a few times in the past. always gave up due to weird driver issues with my AMD cards that apparently nobody liked, as well as gaming and VR support being immature at the time. not a problem anymore, and not a problem if you have an index.



but POSIX DRAFT ACLs really suck. super useless. there is windows-style non-selinux ACL out there! RichACLS and NFSv4 ACLs! Out for years! fully featured! fully functional! but not mainlined on linux. SAMBA can't meaningfully use POSIX draft ACLs for windows guests. they're a dog to use. and far worse than windows acls in featureset. it has caused me great pain and suffering. however, NFSv4 ACLs are supported on the linux nfs *client* and freebsd nfs server and freebsd version of zfs. this has caused me to consider moving my fileserver to freebsd... but I haven't yet. I really like this post. http://michael.orlitzky.com/articles/there_was_an_attempt_to_save_linux_filesystem_acls.xhtml

I've never heard of those other ACL technologies on GNU/Linux. If they're as you describe then they really should be promoted more as the default. Is FreeBSD still going and how is it these days in terms of hardware support? I feel like I might want to build a non-Windows system again and maybe I'd consider doing FreeBSD rather than GNU/Linux.

Regards POSIX, more like Pozzix, amiright? I never got why Linux zealots kept levelling "Windows is not POSIX compliant" as some kind of criticism. Yeah, and my pet fish doesn't have wheels.

 

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No!

OK, I admit, you're right. I used to have a Sony Trinitron 21" that did 72hz. That was pretty sick for high precision KDE2 in 1600x1200. But no human being would ever want more than that.

 

[malt ipecac]

OK, I admit, you're right. I used to have a Sony Trinitron 21" that did 72hz. That was pretty sick for high precision KDE2 in 1600x1200. But no human being would ever want more than that.

You might be right in the context of a high-end CRT like that. 72 hz on a CRT is looks a lot better than 72 hz on a modern LCD panel because CRT is actually displaying black most of the time. Your brain fills in the gaps, meaning anything in motion appears much clearer. Comparable motion clarity on an LCD would require 144hz+, and even that might not be enough.

I've considered buying a CRT monitor for this reason, but they're just too expensive, and they don't work natively with modern HDMI/DisplayPort.

Maybe, in a few years, OLED monitors with black frame insertion will make 60 hz great again.

 

[rawhide_k]

I've never heard of those other ACL technologies on GNU/Linux. If they're as you describe then they really should be promoted more as the default. Is FreeBSD still going and how is it these days in terms of hardware support? I feel like I might want to build a non-Windows system again and maybe I'd consider doing FreeBSD rather than GNU/Linux.

Regards POSIX, more like Pozzix, amiright? I never got why Linux zealots kept levelling "Windows is not POSIX compliant" as some kind of criticism. Yeah, and my pet fish doesn't have wheels.

I don't really know any details about FreeBSD development. I assume it's good enough for NAS use, given that FreeNAS is based on it. All I've checked is whether or not it can run in a VM and use my network and SAS cards, which it can. I don't think it's any good for gaming for anything other than OpenTTD, but I know there are people out there that fulltime it as a desktop work OS...

I just like things to work. I'm not a developer. POSIX ACLs don't work for me. Windows and NFSv4 do. I'd imagine the increase in software that obfuscates raw file shares and the existence of selinux is to blame for the lackadaisical attitude towards mainlining NFSv4 support.

OK, I admit, you're right. I used to have a Sony Trinitron 21" that did 72hz. That was pretty sick for high precision KDE2 in 1600x1200. But no human being would ever want more than that.

I'm batting for 240hz next time around! Maybe this...? Not very likely with my current non-income lul.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Now that it's become stable, has anyone tried Debian Bullseye yet? What are your first impressions?

 

[Kosher Dill]

Now that it's become stable, has anyone tried Debian Bullseye yet? What are your first impressions?

I've been using it as Devuan Chimaera since I needed a 5.x kernel to support the AX200 wifi card. I've had no complaints, things work fine and I haven't run into the same sort of "DLL Hell" problems as on Buster/Beowulf.

 

[Dell Conagher]

I just realized Manjaro is just Arch but with extra steps

 

[AmpleApricots]

I just realized Manjaro is just Arch but with extra steps

Your next step now will be to realize that all distros pack the same sets of software with (maybe) different config files and (maybe) different package manager. That's also what makes distro comparisons so asinine and distro maintainers the tranny jannies of the linux world.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

I just realized Manjaro is just Arch but with extra steps

Then hold on to your fucking hat for this one:
Linux is just Windows but with extra steps.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Pointless brag: I got a fully de-poetterized system setup here on Devuan. Init through sysvinit, audio through ALSA, networks managed by connman, avahi removed. Minimal GNOME besides a few standalone utilities that don't seem to have good equivalents. Feels, as they say, good.

Now what I'd really like to find is a good Motif/CDE-like theme for Openbox. Or something to match "ThinIce".

 

[Dell Conagher]

Pointless brag: I got a fully de-poetterized system setup here on Devuan. Init through sysvinit, audio through ALSA, networks managed by connman, avahi removed. Minimal GNOME besides a few standalone utilities that don't seem to have good equivalents. Feels, as they say, good.

Now what I'd really like to find is a good Motif/CDE-like theme for Openbox. Or something to match "ThinIce".

Have an updoot

 

[awoo]

Your next step now will be to realize that all distros pack the same sets of software with (maybe) different config files and (maybe) different package manager. That's also what makes distro comparisons so asinine and distro maintainers the tranny jannies of the linux world.

What matters for me is how much community support I can get. A lot of software is designed to work with Debian / derivatives or Fedora or Arch and breaks in stupid ways on other slightly different systems and I don't have the time or knowhow to fix the one obscure config somewhere. Some low level stuff like CUDA is nearly impossible on unsupported distros.

Pointless brag: I got a fully de-poetterized system setup here on Devuan. Init through sysvinit, audio through ALSA, networks managed by connman, avahi removed. Minimal GNOME besides a few standalone utilities that don't seem to have good equivalents. Feels, as they say, good.

Now what I'd really like to find is a good Motif/CDE-like theme for Openbox. Or something to match "ThinIce".

Congrats, now you can move on with your life right

 

[AmpleApricots]

What matters for me is how much community support I can get. A lot of software is designed to work with Debian / derivatives or Fedora or Arch and breaks in stupid ways on other slightly different systems

for example? In what ways does it break?

Now what I'd really like to find is a good Motif/CDE-like theme for Openbox. Or something to match "ThinIce".

You can get close to the CDE look and feel with fvwm but that has such an obscure way of configuring things with about a billion toggles and flags that it even gives me pause. There are also CDEish themes for both GTK 2 and 3.

 

[awoo]

for example? In what ways does it break?

Like I said the worst is CUDA or something like OpenCV. CUDA usually only works with a specific Ubuntu version and specific GCC version that shipped with that distro and it's like millions of lines of C++ so it's really not worth trying to figure out all the hardware level hacks that went into that.
Most small programs will work (ex. a small portable C program with few or no dependencies), but I've found larger programs tend to rely on a lot of libraries. Even if you can compile it can be a huge hassle with dependencies and compiling everything compared to distro package maintainers doing a lot of boring compatability work for you.

 

[Kosher Dill]

You can get close to the CDE look and feel with fvwm but that has such an obscure way of configuring things with about a billion toggles and flags that it even gives me pause. There are also CDEish themes for both GTK 2 and 3.

Yeah, I think I'm just going with GTK themes. I tried compiling and running the actual CDE but I think I liked the look of it much more than really using it.

Problem is, GTK2 theming doesn't seem to extend to window decorations, unless I'm doing it wrong.

 

[byuu]

Problem is, GTK2 theming doesn't seem to extend to window decorations, unless I'm doing it wrong.

The CSD crap was introduced in GTK3.
In GTK2, window decorations are still handled by the WM as they should be.

 

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Yeah, I think I'm just going with GTK themes. I tried compiling and running the actual CDE but I think I liked the look of it much more than really using it.

Problem is, GTK2 theming doesn't seem to extend to window decorations, unless I'm doing it wrong.

Here's something.. on the KDE store page.. that might do what you want?

CDE / Motif theme

Gtk2 / Gtk3 theme mimicking CDE / Motif and Front panel app 'An elegant desktop, from a more... civilzed age.' Latest version 1.3 : Now includes configurable XFCE window decorations. Title height...

store.kde.org

It seems to suggest pairing with the XFCE panel and XFCE window manager, which kind of makes sense. I remember loving that same sort of bottom panel with OS/2 Warp. But even back in the day, with Debian Potato and lesstif, you could only approach the widget look, not really the panel.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Here's something.. on the KDE store page.. that might do what you want?
https://store.kde.org/p/1231025/

Yeah, I tried that out but it was kind of janky and uncooperative - maybe because I'm not using XFCE/XFWM. Also, it errs a bit too much on the side of realism by not giving you a choice of which of the hideous color schemes it puts on each new window I will admit I like the idea of Motif more than I ever liked actually using it.

General opinion on the internet seems to be that if you really want your window decorations and GTK theme to match, you just need to make up a matching Openbox theme yourself.

 

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Yeah, I tried that out but it was kind of janky and uncooperative - maybe because I'm not using XFCE/XFWM. Also, it errs a bit too much on the side of realism by not giving you a choice of which of the hideous color schemes it puts on each new window I will admit I like the idea of Motif more than I ever liked actually using it.

General opinion on the internet seems to be that if you really want your window decorations and GTK theme to match, you just need to make up a matching Openbox theme yourself.

You could try for a nice BeOS theme. Same vibe (plus a bit of classic MacOS and NextSTEP), but it was always better looking (admittedly, I haven't gotten a good match since KDE3)

 

[Internet Explorer]

Linux Mint with Cinnamon. I need to try out XFCE again.

Same. I've been a .deb guy for some time now (Ubuntu, Mint, PureOS), and Mint with Cinnamon is just really fucking nice. Also have a couple lightweight distros like Puppy Linux and Knoppix (good to have in your toolkit imo), along with other boot utils like Hiren and UBCD. Also, the weirdest distro I have lying around here is a copy of Red Star OS 3.0, as approved by Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un himself.