The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

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Akerman said:
Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd
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:cryblood:
So, how long before we get systemd re-written in rust and made the default for everything?

I should see if my Amiga 500 still boots, I might need it soon.
 
Friedrich Hayek's Ghost said:
LibreOffice is great, but Calc has slightly different formulas to Excel and the UI is just different enough to be a bit annoying if you're used to Microsoft Office. OnlyOffice is close enough in UI that I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't sued over it, and I think the way their spreadsheet program works is closer to 1:1 with Excel.

They're both solid, but I think OnlyOffice would be less aggravating for a newbie.
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I'm only aware of Zorin OS offering OnlyOffice as an option at install which is sad.
 
Fucking footniggers boutta make me set up a Musl/S6 sanity installation and use Flatpak as an isolation chamber for their AIDS-infested garbage. My goodness. And I'm Mister USE="-flatpak -wayland" over here
 
analrapist said:
Fucking footniggers boutta make me set up a Musl/S6 sanity installation and use Flatpak as an isolation chamber for their AIDS-infested garbage. My goodness. And I'm Mister USE="-flatpak -wayland" over here
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I shed a tear for all the compilation time come and gone. Artix/Antix seem like they're the most robust and well maintained systemd-free distros around right now. Never used Arch myself but I'll be trying Artix out on a separate drive for ~2 weeks starting tomorrow. Antix is just debian de-niggered so I doubt there's too much to see there. The Artix chuddies sold me on trying'em out when they sprung up XLibre support within like a day of the drama starting. That, and their FAQ is pretty heckin' based:

1749769522640.webp

Edit: Turns out Artix does technically ship with elogind and dbus by default, but I'm thinking I just purge those and run seatd + DWM instead. Noooo, I will not use any systemd niggerware, Artoo stalker child! Enjoy systemdson.
 
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I've tried Antix out and from the live ISO environment my monitors built-in speakers are retarded with the straight up ALSA environment, so I'll have to go with Pipewire whenever I get to hopping again...
 
Ferryman said:
Gnome marrying to Wayland literally 3 days after the X incident is no coincidence, neither is how hard they have been trying to censor my boy Enrico. I truly despise systemd and all of its proponents. Red Hat is the single most niggerlicious entity in the computing world, because unlike Microsoft or Apple, who are honest about their data harvesting and complete disregard for user freedom, Red Hat is this subversive cancer that creeps into every single facet of Linux, trying to get its tumors everywhere and in everything. It isn't enough to use a "systemd free" distro anymore, you actively have to hunt down and blacklist this shit's dependencies. https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/ seems to be keeping a good tally of which OSes really do abstain from using any sysd niggerware, for those going distro shopping.
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The browsers are the hardest GTK dependency that people tend to have installed. I really hope de-GNOME becomes a think just like de-Google and Firefox gets the treatment. It's just the browser's interface and file picker mostly, surely it can't be that hard?
 
Ferryman said:
I shed a tear for all the compilation time come and gone. Artix/Antix seem like they're the most robust and well maintained systemd-free distros around right now. Never used Arch myself but I'll be trying Artix out on a separate drive for ~2 weeks starting tomorrow. Antix is just debian de-niggered so I doubt there's too much to see there. The Artix chuddies sold me on trying'em out when they sprung up XLibre support within like a day of the drama starting. That, and their FAQ is pretty heckin' based:

View attachment 7494460

Edit: Turns out Artix does technically ship with elogind and dbus by default, but I'm thinking I just purge those and run seatd + DWM instead. Noooo, I will not use any systemd niggerware, Artoo stalker child! Enjoy systemdson.
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are you going to get rid of udev, and I haven't seen anything specifically mentioning it. But I wouldn't be surprised if they are using systemd-tmpfiles also.

Either way, udev is still systemd software. And it's baked in enough, that you are going to need to put in some effort if you want to get rid of it.

In the past I've contemplated going completely systemd free. Looked into it. And you really aren't going to get rid of it all. And at this point, you are actually just losing functionality by doing it.

I hope one day, turnstile, seatd, some actual replacement for udev, and other options come along that allow an actual choice. But for now, the choice is only superficial. You can change the actual init. But you aren't completely getting rid of it.

The other problem is. As much as I hate systemd, mostly because of the people that made it, they way it was forced on linux. It gained mass adoption for a very important reason. It solved problems. Did things better than the options before it. Allowed faster boot times, handled services better, with restarting failed ones, starting them on demand, hotplugging, took advantage of cgroups. And made doing all of that fairly easy for the end user.

If at the time, a proper competitor had been there, things would be different. There are alternatives we have now, that I like. Most I would only recommend for advanced users though.
 
Akerman said:
This could be a schizopost, tbf. I mean didn't the maintainer of this project have some spat with Louis Rossman where he acted like a complete paranoid scizhophrenic?
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He may be a shizo but considering all the upstream-contributions in many major projects he and others in the group makes (GrapheneOS includes features that couldn't be upstreamed), it must be legit.
GrapheneOS has earlier releases because they have privileged access to relevant Google-repos as an example (if Daniel didn't burn enough bridges yet).
 
1749801007730.webp

yeah. they are saying they aren't 100% sure it's going to happen.

Will just have to wait, and see how things go. I'm sure some form of open source android is going to continue. Something this big, will absolutely get forked. That's even if they do end up trying to close source things. At this point it's really just speculation though.

I wouldn't stress over it. Mostly because it's kind of retarded to stress over something outside of your control, that you don't even know is going to happen. (just general life advice there)
 
prollyanotherlurker said:
are you going to get rid of udev, and I haven't seen anything specifically mentioning it. But I wouldn't be surprised if they are using systemd-tmpfiles also.
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Gentoo extracted it:
gentoo said:
Code: 
~ # equery u systemd-utils
[ Legend : U - final flag setting for installation]
[        : I - package is installed with flag     ]
[ Colors : set, unset                             ]
 * Found these USE flags for sys-apps/systemd-utils-255.18:
 U I
 + + abi_x86_32                      : 32-bit (x86) libraries
 + + acl                             : Add support for Access Control Lists
 + + boot                            : Enable systemd-boot (UEFI boot manager)
 + + kernel-install                  : Enable kernel-install
 + + kmod                            : Enable kernel module loading via sys-apps/kmod
 - - python_single_target_python3_11 : Build for Python 3.11 only
 - - python_single_target_python3_12 : Build for Python 3.12 only
 + + python_single_target_python3_13 : Build for Python 3.13 only
 - - secureboot                      : Automatically sign efi executables using user specified key
 - - sysusers                        : Enable systemd-sysusers
 - - test                            : Enable dependencies and/or preparations necessary to run tests (usually controlled by FEATURES=test but can be toggled independently)
 + + tmpfiles                        : Enable systemd-tmpfiles
 + + udev                            : Enable systemd-udev (userspace device manager)
 + + ukify                           : Enable systemd-ukify
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If Poetteringware that was PulseAudio was superseded by PipeWire on the merits of PipeWire being better, the same could happen with systemd. All you have to do is to write a coherent and standardized set of OS modules that won't have to force developers to deal with five billion edge cases because someone used one of five different available packages for each dependency that are incompatible with each other.

You know, the reason why something as shit as systemd got adopted in the first place. As shit as it is, it's the closest thing to standardization that you have on Linux, and you need standardization if you want developers to bother writing software for your OS, which is what makes or breaks an OS. Much like with consoles, if it has no games, it's not worth shit.
 
Ferryman said:
Antix is just debian de-niggered so I doubt there's too much to see there.
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I hadn't heard anything about that distro so I looked it up, and wtf:
1749804127500.webp
(src)
Yeah, something tells me they won't ship XLibre.
By image and branding alone it might be the worst offender of this type of shit I have seen in Linux. Once again I am reminded of "Burgers?"

1749813466371.webp
:story:
Also, what the hell is this old dude wearing?
 
Akerman said:
Also, what the hell is this old dude wearing?
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XXL women's clothing, probably, but his shoulders are so much broader than women's that it looks even worse on him than a woman who would be so unfortunate as to have shoulders that wide.
 
prollyanotherlurker said:
Either way, udev is still systemd software. And it's baked in enough, that you are going to need to put in some effort if you want to get rid of it.
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I'm already committed to the 100% systemd free rig that I am willing to put in the extra work to make it happen. Pretty sure one of the chuddies actually already has an alternative semi flushed out via mudev + libudev-zero for udev replacement, and I've looked at tmpfiles, it is genuinely a very simple and minimal script program that looks easy enough to rewrite by hand, which this dude seems to have already done. Just a bunch of chmod, chown, mkdir and cronjobs by the looks of it. Might make for a fun little project actually. ConsoleKit2 is also an option.

GNU Abyss said:
The browsers are the hardest GTK dependency that people tend to have installed. I really hope de-GNOME becomes a think just like de-Google and Firefox gets the treatment. It's just the browser's interface and file picker mostly, surely it can't be that hard?
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I think the wick is still burning, its been less than a week since Enrico parted the Red(hat) Sea so there's a non zero chance more people start to realize how invasive they are being with Gnome, Wayland and Systemd in general. Qutebrowser is pretty minimalistic and has no GTK dependencies as far as I can tell, if you are willing to step away from the Firefox vs Chromium binary anyway. Better still, it requires no connection to dbus at runtime, so that's that sorted straight up.

Another Char Clone said:
Gentoo extracted it:
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Would it be more viable to try and run Gentoo with extremely restrictive USE flags that completely disable anything and everything systemd? OpenRC fetches like half the systemd tree for dependency resolution straight up, but perhaps through restricting it significantly, you can straight up prevent it from pulling them back in once purged? Or just do

``` USE ="-systemd -dbus -elogind -tmpfiles -ukify -systemd-boot -sysusers" emerge world ```

Shame their s6 version is unsupported. Although I have time to tinker now during the summer lull, I will absolutely need a robust system come fall, so I am considering other alternatives that might not make me have to constantly battle my own system. 99% of my workflow is CLI based so requirements aren't huge. Right now, the alternative choices are:
  • Antix - WAY more anti-systemd than even Chudix while still allowing for rolling-esque releases through Debian testing, but I plan on compiling 99% of my shit from source so who cares; as far as I can tell, these guys take the whole "anti systemd" thing the most seriously. Also has the benefit of being by far the most popular distro out of the other ones mentioned here.
  • PCLinuxOS - barely heard of this one until I saw it popping up in fetch threads recently, just clip DBUS and its golden. Its also somewhat popular, so that's always good.
  • Obarun - Artix if it actually wanted 100% no systemd purity. I legitimately can't find any fault in it other than being a little bit more obscure.
  • Source Mage - meme, but casting spells 'n shit sounds fun. Guess I can always compile every single dependency & line of code from source.
  • Open / FreeBSD - FreeBSD seems like the best, OpenBSD as the runner up. Haven't done much research on these, will look into it today. Given the discussion we had about it earlier in this thread, I am strongly considering just switching to BSDs until a viable alternative comes up.
Obviously these all have their own motivations and politics, but I am willing to turn a blind eye to politics (to an extent) if it the team behind the project has proven to be reliable, of high quality, and uncomromising in its philosophy, whatever it may be. That is why, despite showing "Free Roachistine" and a disgusting tankie on their page, I'm even willing to give Antix its fair shake if my "TRVLY 0 SYSTEMD" Artix rig doesn't work out.
 
Ferryman said:
Obviously these all have their own motivations and politics, but I am willing to turn a blind eye to politics (to an extent) if it the team behind the project has proven to be reliable, of high quality, and uncomromising in its philosophy, whatever it may be. That is why, despite showing "Free Roachistine" and a disgusting tankie on their page, I'm even willing to give Antix its fair shake if my "TRVLY 0 SYSTEMD" Artix rig doesn't work out.
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You have to ignore pozzed politics in general when using Linux yeah, it sadly comes with the territory. Having said that, Antix is just way too much for me. An antifa distro with a Palestine flag for a logo? I'll pass. It's not just due to aesthetics, actitard tranny code is notoriously bad because the focus is elsewhere and endless drama turns off otherwise valuable work. This is why XLibre is right to ban all culture war posting from any direction, the project needs to only be about the project and it's goals in order to attract the most contribution.

Honestly if you go this route it may be best to either fork yourself so you have a better understanding of what you are taking out and how your system works, or build something up from scratch. A lot of work, yes, but you can always pilfer from work done already on this front. Find where the holes are, fill them in as best you can. In the end you will have a system you know intimately which is useful when shit inevitably cocks up due to systemd dependency.

EDIT: Joborun from the blog you shared earlier seems to align with your goals, unless you already considered it and rejected it.
 
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