The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

prollyanotherlurker said:
As far as I know he has never even tried anything other than arch. I could be wrong, but I know he's ran arch the entire time he has been using linux. I have a feeling he really has no idea.

If you call needed different commands to start services harder, then sure. I would say that's retarded, but that's just me. I'm struggling trying to think of anything that is genuinely harder to do on non-systemd distros. Now days most of them even have ways to do user services. Especially now that turnstile is here. The only arguement I could see. Is if you wanted to write either sysv style services, or openrc services, and you have no idea how bash scripting works. Usually you really don't need to do that, and also a lot of the time the kind of service you need to write yourself is a simple command, so its not that hard to figure out.

Basically that was a retarded rage-bait question he asked.
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Sounds like he isn't old enough to have used SysV init on Arch.

That's going to be an issue with a newer generation of users on Linux, they won't know of anything else and may just blindly accept Systemd slowly gobbling up more and more services. Not to mention take Wayland developers at their word that X11 is a mess not worth maintaining and Wayland being the future.
 
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The main reason systemd was allowed to dominate the Linux ecosystem is because no one wants to deal with the Unix philosophy in modern systems. No one wants to deal with multiple init systems, multiple networking stack and networking tool implementations and so on. The freedom of choice in Linux was simultaneously the reason why Microsoft was dominating the market, as they offered one rigid solution while Linux offered multiple. No one wants to deal with those little incompatibilities because one sysadmin decided to use a different init system or a different networking stack from others, so Poettering's feature creep seems appealing in comparison.

Notice how there is one piece of Poetteringware that went extinct because something better came around: PulseAudio. It's because Pipewire managed to replace it, replace ALSA and all the other implementations while keeping backwards compatibility and being generally better than everything else. No such thing happened for systemd so it's still taking over Linux. If this was an issue of directed maliciousness then Pipewire would've been sabotaged so that PulseAudio would remain the standard, but no, a better alternative came around and everyone moved to it. No one offered a better alternative to systemd because all the alternatives proposed are ideologically opposed to the reason why systemd became the dominant init system which is why this init war continues to this day.

No consolidation or even interoperation between all the submodules to make sure that software developers don't have to account for they myriad of potential software configurations when writing their software means that such a solution will never get accepted. If someone manages to take all the packages systemd has replaced, write a single framework and make it so that will allow every little submodule of it to just work no matter what implementation was used, then you will see systemd losing ground. But systemd took over so many core elements of Linux that it's not only a massive undertaking to realize, it's also ideologically opposed to the Unix philosophy so no one will attempt to make such a framework, not to mention xkcd #927.
xkcd 927 standards.png
That being said, Ebussy's posse tying everything to systemd is plain maliciousness that's to be expected from the footfags.
 
Slav Power said:
The main reason systemd was allowed to dominate the Linux ecosystem is because no one wants to deal with the Unix philosophy in modern systems. No one wants to deal with multiple init systems, multiple networking stack and networking tool implementations and so on.
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With the explosive growth in daemons over the last 20 years, it was inevitable. Managing init timing with the simple sysv ordering became a nightmare since it requires you to figure out all of the dependencies and startup order by hand, and since dependency-upon-dependency is easy to draft up, makes it truly labyrinthine.

It's something that systemd actually does well. Granted, they took it too far, but it's something they did indeed do well. The biggest flaws with it is less to do with systemd and more with people who build their application startups to say "ready" before they actually are, which leads to horrible hacks like PreExecs with simple sleep statements to give a standoff timer.
Slav Power said:
replace ALSA
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Well, considering how alsa is? It was built complicated for a complicated time. It being replaced was almost inevitable.
Slav Power said:
No consolidation or even interoperation between all the submodules to make sure that software developers don't have to account for they myriad of potential software configurations when writing their software means that such a solution will never get accepted.
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That's because different groups are all doing these things. There's no one "Linux" group that builds all of the modules.
 
Angie Wormwood said:
Well, considering how alsa is? It was built complicated for a complicated time. It being replaced was almost inevitable.
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Okay, I keep seeing this and I feel like I'm being gaslighted. Pipewire/PoetterAudio/JACK work on top of ALSA, they don't replace it. The only "alternative" implementation I can think of is OSS, which was dead for a while now. Have I been lied to? Am I retarded? What the fuck is going on?

Also, I find it quite funny that Pipewire is somehow *more* of a PoetterWare than PA because it's also supposed to handle video streaming or some shit (thanks Gayland).
 
ellroy said:
That's going to be an issue with newer generation of users on Linux,
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I see this in myself a lot. I'm 23 and been using linux (and sometimes dipped my toes into OpenBSD - but not significantly so) since ~2019, a lot of the times learning about it feels almost like an archeological effort, but I like that so I don't mind. It is always fun to find some "e-mail" chain with UUCP addresses that teaches me something new and interesting.
However I do find myself regretting that I have not lived through it (most of the interesting stuff I see happening from 50s-60s onward) and thus can never truly undestand it, but on the other hand at least I'm not in my 80s (although I will be one day anyway (hopefully), and so far I have to say I'd rather live in those days than these...)
 
The main reason systemd was allowed to dominate the Linux ecosystem is because no one wants to deal with the Unix philosophy in modern systems. No one wants to deal with multiple init systems, multiple networking stack and networking tool implementations and so on. The freedom of choice in Linux was simultaneously the reason why Microsoft was dominating the market, as they offered one rigid solution while Linux offered multiple. No one wants to deal with those little incompatibilities because one sysadmin decided to use a different init system or a different networking stack from others, so Poettering's feature creep seems appealing in comparison.
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Or maybe, and bare with me here, just maybe it has something to do with Poettering at the time being under the employ of the biggest Linux kernel and ecosystem contributor with the largest market share on servers, Red Hat.

It's as if Red Hat with its resources is able to fund important projects related to Linux like Gnome, PulseAudio, Wayland, and Systemd because they have an operating system they charge support contracts on and offer training services for. It's as if Red Hat has a vested interest in controlling Linux to maintain their market share and grow it. It's as if Red Hat can afford to pay people to be maintainers on projects and gate-keep outside contributions that may not agree with Red Hat's hegemony.

Systemd was a trojan horse for Red Hat to control things in the kernel ecosystem. It's literally a Faustian bargain, they gave you launchd capabilities but you get 1.5 million lines of code and project where all the key maintainers work for Red Hat.

And no, Microsoft is not dominating the server market where Red Hat is concerned. Microsoft has desktop dominance and will find a way to slowly lose it since they keep finding new and creative ways of making Windows worse than the previous release.
 
Black Willow Lurker said:
Okay, I keep seeing this and I feel like I'm being gaslighted. Pipewire/PoetterAudio/JACK work on top of ALSA, they don't replace it. The only "alternative" implementation I can think of is OSS, which was dead for a while now. Have I been lied to? Am I retarded? What the fuck is going on?
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No, you're absolutely right. OSS was the original sound system, but it began to be replaced in the mid 90s. Then there was a licensing issue in 2002, which led to Linux distros abandoning OSS for ALSA en masse. FreeBSD I believe still uses the OSS API in its own, independently developed version of the server.

JACK came along in 2002 as a low-latency daemon that could use ALSA as its sound server. It had a particular niche in audio engineering. It's mostly not relevant to the autism.

Pulse was invented in 2004, after poettering didn't want to use JACK due to not-invented-here syndrome and couldn't figure out how to configure ALSA Dmix; rather than ask around and then maybe submit improvements to the docs, he wrote his own mixing wrapper around a single alsa sink and then made it supremely complicated for no obvious reason. All of his software projects are like this.

Pipewire is the current hotness, with compatibility layers for pulse, jack, gstreamer, and all the others. It technically came out of pulse, but in practical terms it's become a repudiation of just about everything in that project. It's probably more accurate to call it a signal processor or multimedia server than a sound server, as it was designed to handle both audio and video (which, when you get down to the basics, are very similar problems with similar solutions). It strips out most of the autism of pulse, but it does still use the ALSA kernel interface as its audio backend.
 
If this is against the rules I apologize and will take it down upon moderator approval or force from them

Every single fucking linux discord server is infested with hypermarxists who will ban you instantly. They will ban you if your democrat. They will ban you if your Conserative. you have to be MORE than that just to exist and have your basic support questions asked.

I made a basic Linux discord server for you guys but this time im going to make sure and spend time moderating it so it does not spiral out of control. All of KIWIS rule apply here and if the mods want this post to be removed if I will do that. I know its iffy but there REALLY needs a easy way to talk about linux and support stuff. Ive been banned almost 15 times now.
If the mods say yes I will post the link(I will be moderating it so it wont turn into anarchy and plan to do that). In the meantime if you want acccess just message me. I don't want to break the rules on the farms and post the link if its against the rules.
 
nigga we are on a forum
why the fuck would you use a discord server so information can be blackholed?
ask your questions here you retard so everyone can see them and potentially learn from them
 
ProudSkibidiTolietAryan said:
I made a basic Linux discord server for you guys but this time im going to make sure and spend time moderating it so it does not spiral out of control. All of KIWIS rule apply here and if the mods want this post to be removed if I will do that. I know its iffy but there REALLY needs a easy way to talk about linux and support stuff. Ive been banned almost 15 times now.
If the mods say yes I will post the link(I will be moderating it so it wont turn into anarchy and plan to do that). In the meantime if you want acccess just message me. I don't want to break the rules on the farms and post the link if its against the rules.
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You need to post less and lurk more.
 
It would be better to ask null to make a dedicated linux or tech support chat channel than to try to shovel people to discord. Literally there are far better options than discord like matrix or rocket chat. Just no. Discord is not the way. It's a piece of shit.
 

The plans for another FOSS project on Linux probably getting ruined/GNOME'd just dropped. I remember people in this thread suggesting that this dude is responsible for Audacity being fucked, I guess it wasn't a joke. Dude is pissed in the beginning about people criticizing a dev build. But aside from the logo change it could be good, idk I am just too cynical about shit like this now. All I know is that Audacity has just gotten worse and worse for me personally performance wise on Linux at least. IDK how it functions on macOS which seems like the main system they are making it for nowadays.
 
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Blue Miaplacidus said:
It would be better to ask null to make a dedicated linux or tech support chat channel than to try to shovel people to discord. Literally there are far better options than discord like matrix or rocket chat. Just no. Discord is not the way. It's a piece of shit.
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Thanks for giving me acutual advice. it would be better to just make a matrix server. So I might just do that instead if null wont do it.
Im not using IRC because i hate it
 
ellroy said:
Or maybe, and bare with me here, just maybe it has something to do with Poettering at the time being under the employ of the biggest Linux kernel and ecosystem contributor with the largest market share on servers, Red Hat.

It's as if Red Hat with its resources is able to fund important projects related to Linux like Gnome, PulseAudio, Wayland, and Systemd because they have an operating system they charge support contracts on and offer training services for. It's as if Red Hat has a vested interest in controlling Linux to maintain their market share and grow it. It's as if Red Hat can afford to pay people to be maintainers on projects and gate-keep outside contributions that may not agree with Red Hat's hegemony.

Systemd was a trojan horse for Red Hat to control things in the kernel ecosystem. It's literally a Faustian bargain, they gave you launchd capabilities but you get 1.5 million lines of code and project where all the key maintainers work for Red Hat.

And no, Microsoft is not dominating the server market where Red Hat is concerned. Microsoft has desktop dominance and will find a way to slowly lose it since they keep finding new and creative ways of making Windows worse than the previous release.
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You mean IBM?

Premium Dog Food said:
why the fuck would you use a discord server so information can be blackholed?
ask your questions here you retard so everyone can see them and potentially learn from them
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Hey now. That's not the usual welcoming kiwifarms spirit. ❤️
ProudSkibidiTolietAryan said:
Well its also to easily talk. Look fourms arent for long winded conversations like on a standard IRC chat with a friend.
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Like they mentioned we do have chat channels. Some of them are dead a lot of the time, you could probably just use one of the ones that has no one talking in it.

Seasoned News Reporter said:
It would be better to ask null to make a dedicated linux or tech support chat channel than to try to shovel people to discord. Literally there are far better options than discord like matrix or rocket chat. Just no. Discord is not the way. It's a piece of shit.
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I think maybe if he could put one either on this thread kind of like he did with the MATI thread that has the chat thing at the top. It could work.

But really. I wouldn't get my hopes up that he would.
 
Akerman said:

The plans for another FOSS project on Linux probably getting ruined/GNOME'd just dropped. I remember people in this thread suggesting that this dude is responsible for Audacity being fucked, I guess it wasn't a joke. Dude is pissed in the beginning about people criticizing a dev build. But aside from the logo change it could be good, idk I am just too cynical about shit like this now. All I know is that Audacity has just gotten worse and worse for me personally performance wise on Linux at least. IDK how it functions on macOS which seems like the main system they are making it for nowadays.
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With how much they need to replace and how much work it takes to do it, why even base it on the existing Audacity? There's no secret sauce to it, no reason to keep anything from the previous version if they're replacing everything except for the name.

Just make a whole new program and call it Audacity 4, don't bother with the old code if the only thing they need from it is name recognition

Everything that guy takes over should be required by law to have a "from the minds behind Paint 3D" on the splash screen
 
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