KillaSmoke
kiwifarms.net
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the big arguments for Wayland that x11 doesn't restrict clipboard access? And Wayland has the exact same fucking issue? I really shouldn't be this surprised
The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the big arguments for Wayland that x11 doesn't restrict clipboard access? And Wayland has the exact same fucking issue? I really shouldn't be this surprised
Combustion Engine
kiwifarms.net
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- Sep 30, 2024
Literally every argument for Wayland is "not my problem lmao, it's just a protocol". So for anything resembling X11 feature parity now you need daemons (sometimes running as root or with privileges that defeat any """security""" that cancer would offer) and writing and repeating the same code multiple times for all the useless "implementations" because there's no universal way to interact with them that will work consistently.
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He fell for the linux meme
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- Apr 19, 2019
I don't get it.
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- Mar 4, 2019
He uses arch.
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- Mar 23, 2020
The rolling = unstable meme hasn't been factual for years at this point.
Non-wlroots Wayland compositors absolutely beat X11 in terms of security. Not only does X11 have unrestricted clipboard access, all applications can sniff keystrokes from others, which is by design, and not something that happens on Wayland. The clipboard thing is a universal issue on pretty much every OS AFAIK (I'm not a winjeet or macfag so don't quote me on that), but you can rig an autodelete after paste script that does tighten security slightly. The screenshot bus issue we talked about a few pages back is only on wlroots based compositors, so Sway, Weston or Niri, not KDE, Gnome or Hyprland. In fact, Hyprland recently implemented a permissions system that resolves the issue wholesale. Edit:*** it also works on the clipboard through the "windowrulev2" rule.
I'm all for chud software, its just that security wise, when push comes to shove, Way(Hypr)land still wins. Gnome niggers and 90% of the Wayland dev team absolutely need to bite the curb, but credit where it is due, vaxry is genuinely doing good work in digging it out of the gutter.
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- Apr 1, 2024
When your biggest hater is Drew Devault it's hard to not look good.
I have seen critiques on Vaxry, because he will talk shit to people. Or question things instead of just going along, but idk I think overall that's the exact kind of thing that has led to his project to actually be the first to implement a lot of things people wanted on wayland.
While not having a whole team of people like gnome, and kde do to benefit from. And having all of the people that agree with Drew Devault actively trying to sabotage him. Because of relatively stupid bullshit.
I think I've posted the GitHub thread in this thread before. Where I'm 90% Devault's hatred of Vaxry started. And it was so dumb, and it's clear to see how much of a petty bitch Devault is. Because of that. He goes and searches through his entire discord server, for things that he could spin into making. His pathetic hit piece.
To this day it amazes me that people read that thing. And decided Vaxry was a fascist. It was like 3 or 4 screenshots of literal nothing burgers. That weren't even from Vaxry. But the leftist trannies took that. And through gold medal worthy mental gymnastics turning it into. The classic "HE WANTS ME DEAD!" I have talked with people that actually think he's some far right guy or something. Literally just because Drew Devault just said trust me bro, and showed a guy from his discord server making fun of someone by saying his pronouns were "who/cares".
And another person making a joke saying the server was racist. And to clarify. They didn't make a racist joke. They made a joke saying they were racist! And people were mad about that. Its SO FUCKING DUMB. And not just mad at the rando that said it. Mad at Vaxry. These people should never have influence even as a fast food restaurant manager. Much less be making any decisions on the future of a software project. Its insane anyone ever took them seriously.
The other things I've seen, that at least make more sense. Are people that just don't like Vaxry because they feel like he can be a dick. Which, yeah. Maybe he can, but idk I feel like a lot of people are dicks, they just pretend they aren't. Until they finally they are finally mad enough to show it. Either way. Even if people don't like him. He has done a lot for Wayland, and for Linux's adoption.
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I use Nobara which is made by GE himself.
No major complaints, runs everything I need and haven't touch Windows in 2 months.
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dec05eba
kiwifarms.net
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- Jul 27, 2022
X11 added a solution to this over 20 years ago with XACE. It was implemented by NSA and they used it on rhel with selinux with mandatory access control with gui like on android, before android and wayland existed. This mandatory access control is specific permissions for actions for all applications. It prevents keylogging and everything else. There even exists the option to censor (black out) a window when the user takes a screenshot/screen recording. This was not used widespread since nobody really cared about "security" in the display server as it's performative in practice. It's however still used for one thing, to restrict X11 resources per user, so other users cant access your resources.
Xlibre has picked up the mantle and implemented Xnamespaces on top of XACE which puts applications into different "namespaces" so different applications cant interact with applications outside their namespaces (with the exception of the root namespace).
Btw a wayland compositor (or xorg) could easily have an option to only allow pasting to the focused application when you press ctrl+v (or ctrl+shift+v), then no application can steal the clipboard. This works without changing any clipboard protocols.
> But what about right click and paste??
Only boomers need to do that
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Because the only true paste is middle click to paste.
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- Mar 23, 2020
Gnome et al. are bogged down by corporate gunk that promotes ideology over code cleanliness, that's the issue. Wayland, just like X11, is great in theory, but bogged down by corpcancer. Hopefully Vaxry can be to Wayland what metux is to X11/XLibre, someone who can cut through the self-indulgent faggotry and actually make patches that people want, as he's already done with the screenshot/clipboard security modules, among other things.
From what I can see at a glance it does seem really cool, if you can properly wire together permissions for all your stuff it should be analogous to the Hyprland patch I mentioned, or using cage to isolate apps in. I'm hopeful xnamespaces and xace will get developed to the point where they can actively be used, but last I checked both are still decidedly "indev". From a glance I see metux cleaning up old XACE hooks with simpler implementation, so hey, godspeed and here's hoping they get up to par sooner rather than later. XLibre needs to live. We cannot have a display server monopoly because that would land it squarely in the hands of corporate sponsors/devs. Just on principle that is unhealthy for the FOSS world. However, while I am no Wayland cultist, dickriding XLibre just cause its le heckin chud fork is fucking gay. Gotta be pragmatic about things. When or if xace/namespace is fully functional, I would be happy to give it a spin.
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Because as far as X11 WMs go, it's not particularly noteworthy.
Then I'll be the proudest faggot you ever seent. It's okay to have preferences, but there's a difference between a zealot and a faggot.
Belisarius Cawl
kiwifarms.net
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KillaSmoke
kiwifarms.net
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- Jan 18, 2025
It won't let me quote the reply for some reason, but thank you @Ferryman for the clarification.
As someone who's just enough of a Linux sperg that normies won't talk to me, but not enough to follow all of these projects, and understand all of the nuances, I've always had the impression that many of the critiques of x11 were valid, but Wayland devs were too busy engaging in sodomy to actually implement any solutions. The fate of many an Open Source project
Its good to hear that there's at least one dev out there doing the Lord's work. Whenever I get some free time, I might have to do a deep dive into this, and reconsider my use of x11
As someone who's just enough of a Linux sperg that normies won't talk to me, but not enough to follow all of these projects, and understand all of the nuances, I've always had the impression that many of the critiques of x11 were valid, but Wayland devs were too busy engaging in sodomy to actually implement any solutions. The fate of many an Open Source project
Its good to hear that there's at least one dev out there doing the Lord's work. Whenever I get some free time, I might have to do a deep dive into this, and reconsider my use of x11
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2024
I rated autistic, but I took it back after seeing it was like that every time. I thought I had misspelled it once or something. That's it I'm either getting a new keyboard app with less annoying spell check, or disabling it.
I typed that on my phone, and I must have accidentally spelled Vaxry Varxry one time. And it automatically switched every one. Like just now I spelled it correctly, and when I went to spell it the wrong way it started switching it automatically to the right away. I've noticed if you spell something a particular way, it will switch out how things are spelled to the way you spelled it that one time. And it won't stop until you correct it. Like I did here.
Idk if it's so shit because I have it disconnected from the Internet. But I'm so fucking tired of Gboard. I already hate Google. But I only used this because I remembered it being decent. I know I can find something better. I'm going look right when I'm done typing this.
Because it's a dead project, and it's also worse than hyprland.
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- Mar 23, 2020
Most of the stuff we're discussing here is probably a non-issue for like 99% of people that aren't schizophrenic. I like both X11 and Wayland, and having used both, I really can't vouch for one over the other. Both have treated me exceptionally well, so all I can say is: do your own research and draw your own conclusions.
Now that I think about it, the only bad experiences I've had with Linux are all related to Bazzite/KDE-Wayland. For some reason Lutris would just obliterate plasmashell if you boot up specific games or use specific Wine versions.
I swear to fucking God his name was Varyx. I don't know if it was Josh on MATI or someone else pronouncing it like that but every time I see it my brain reads it as "Varyx".
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- Apr 1, 2024
This is the first time I've seen people not sperg out over someone saying wayland is fine in this thread I think.
Probably speaking too soon.
But both work perfectly fine for me too. Whether I use one or the other really doesn't matter much to me. I think that's probably the case for most people that are using linux. Unless one happens to not work well with their setup. And I have heard of people having issues with both that meant they needed to use one, or the other. Depending on what they issue was.
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Gossip Avoider
kiwifarms.net
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- Sep 12, 2024
Until they try to flee Microsoft and the screen capture (Spectacle) doesn't work because of Wayland or their game produces stuttery frametimes because Wayland doesn't want to disable the compositor for a borderless full-screen window.
Of course, they won't know the technical cause, but that doesn't really matter.
Wayland is still beta, and will probably ever be, and, even worse, forces planed deprecation, a feat normally reserved for Microsoft and Apple.
The one moment in time Linux shouldn't shit the bed, and it pulls this shit.
You can bet.