The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

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How are you finding it? I've been tooling with artix as a possible replacement for Manjaro on my main machine, but haven't tried s6 yet.

I've actually dabbled with Artix. The Community GTK edition is genuinely great stuff, but I just don't like XFCE4 and the MATE option they have isn't particularly appealing the way Mint's MATE configuration is. Software selection in the Community GTK edition is pretty damn ace though, so at least it has that going for it. My preferred setup is the Cinnamon ISO that ships with OpenRC, and then just manually installing XLibre over Xorg. It works just as well and you don't need to wait on the churn of testing ISOs. Apparently dinit is another worthwhile option if you want something that feels like systemd if it never succumbed to scope creep, but I wouldn't know since I never tested it.

Before jumping ship to Fedora in late October on my portable drive, Artix with Cinnamon, XLibre, and OpenRC was honestly quite comfortable to use. There were some issues with Flatpaks shitting themselves, but a quick fix made them work again... although now I find myself biased toward AppImages so who knows? 🤷 I personally don't like using the AUR whenever I'm on an Arch variant, half the stuff I really like using is way out of sync with the git versions anyway, and I don't have the patience or the skill to modify a PKGBUILD to fix the problem. yay is also fucking worthless compared to the old yaourt but to that end... people swear by Arch variants because of the AUR. Maybe I'm just weird like that.

All my shit ran perfectly: emulators, Steam, Heroic, printing, multimedia playback, the whole nine yards. The only reason why I haven't jumped back to Artix on my portable drive is just "do I really wanna do the song and dance with the AUR again, or will it just get DDOSed for the umpteenth time when I'm looking for actual stuff?"
 
>s6
>not OpenRC

You go to hell! You go to hell and you die!
Imagine not using runit
which is where I learned that some files have "Backup bytes" is what I call them, where every 256 bytes or so there will be 15 like backup bytes that need to be removed
Probably some kind of Hamming code system.
yay is also fucking worthless compared to the old yaourt but to that end... people swear by Arch variants because of the AUR. Maybe I'm just weird like that
It’s been a long time since I ran anything Arch-based, but I remember the graphical tools for usung the AUR being very nice to use. Basically just click and install like it’s a normal package. I think for the casual linux people they just see it as “Arch has way more packages bc of this one thing” more than anything else.
 
I personally don't like using the AUR whenever I'm on an Arch variant, half the stuff I really like using is way out of sync with the git versions anyway, and I don't have the patience or the skill to modify a PKGBUILD to fix the problem. yay is also fucking worthless compared to the old yaourt but to that end... people swear by Arch variants because of the AUR. Maybe I'm just weird like that.
I'm one of those people, but wouldn't life be awful if we were all the same?

These days, Flatpaks just makes me think of @Fatpacks and I get sudden craving for burgers, so I - for no technical reason - refuse to use it.
 
I'm one of those people, but wouldn't life be awful if we were all the same?

Here's the "hierarchy" of Arch and its family tree in my book:

If you're looking for a "lazy man's bleeding edge Linux distro?" Skip Arch altogether, install a Fedora Spin that ships with X11 (I'm partial to the MATE+Compiz and Cinnamon variants) if you hate Wayland, or Workstation/KDE if you prefer Wayland for some bizarre reason. The standard repositories are at least double the size of Arch's official repos, and RPM Fusion + COPR basically have you covered for everything else that you'd reasonably turn to the AUR for. Fedora's not even that far behind Arch half the time anyway. Odds are that Rawhide and Arch-Testing are both on the same cadence anyway. At least Fedora benefits from paid Red Hat developers hammering out breakages; insert MomPacmanBorkedMyXorgConfAgain.jpg here.

If you're looking for Arch through and through? The hierarchy is Artix > ArchBang > mainline Arch > literally anything else > Manjaro (fie upon Manjaro users, fie upon them all!)

Artix to me feels like the "true" successor to pre-systemd Arch Linux. You don't get /etc/rc.conf like in the olden days, but you have four init frameworks to choose from, ISOs that let you either start from a text console or a preconfigured desktop environment, official repositories that do a damn good job of patching out systemd dependencies with stuff like elogind, and full access to the AUR. I personally skew toward OpenRC because it's the most "mature" of all the init frameworks. Technically runit is older and has precedent in mainstream distros before systemd came about. That's another option, but I never tested it and OpenRC works well enough once all's said and done.

ArchBang (and it'll forever remain ArchBang to me despite the GreenBang name change) is the next best option because it's the tried and true "lazy man's Arch Linux." Yeah, yeah, archinstall exists, but there's something quietly comforting and nostalgic about ArchBang. It's a thorn in the side for many longtime Arch jannies and developers because of all the people running for help with ArchBang problems and not Arch specifically, but it really does the "least" amount of excess stuff. You get Arch booting into X11 with Openbox, and Openbox (despite being a stacking manager) is just as capable of being riced out like i3, Hyprland, dwm, and all these other newfangled tiling window managers. The XML syntax for Openbox is definitely obtuse nowadays, but I'd argue it's far more powerful.

Any other Arch variants like EndeavourOS (is that what Antergos formerly Cinnarch turned into?), CachyOS, Omarchy, etc are theoretically usable, but I refuse to go near them because there's a lot more configuration that those teams do. It's really hard to tell where Endeavour/CachyOS/Omarchy ends and Arch begins. Also, fie upon Manjaro and all who use it because Manjaro deliberately holds back updates for an arbitrary period, lost their SSL certificate because they didn't renew... several times over the years, and AUR access is a minefield when you're running slightly older base and base-devel. Allan McRae, an Arch developer, wrote about Manjaro back in 2013 and literally everything that Allan warned about still remains true today. Probably even worse today because of those SSL certificate expirations that happened several times for their goddamn website.
 
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>runit
>not Shepherd
>inb4 xe still hasn't run sudo pacman -S guix
Nooooo stalker, you are already goycattle. Enjoy the pen!
I’ve tried to run Guix or even GuixSD, but my shitty ex-chromebook doesn’t have the harddrive space to deal with its magnificent girth. I have run Triquel with it, though, so I know it can handle a pure, unadulterated kernel.
 
I have run Triquel with it, though, so I know it can handle a pure, unadulterated kernel.

Trisquel is basically the only "normie-friendly" FSF-endorsed Linux distro, and it only gets a pass because it's an Ubuntu clone. I certainly do like it, I've used it in the past on older laptops (albeit with an external USB WiFi dongle), it does the job fairly well... but it really must be said: the Ubuntu undercarriage to Trisquel does a lot of the heavy lifting. If anything, the FSF endorsement arguably kneecaps Trisquel because you're skipping out on multimedia codecs, binary firmware in the kernel, binary CPU microcode updates, etc. Of all the FSF-endorsed Linux distros, the only ones worth serious considerations are Trisquel and Guix System. So basically "baby's first truly free software GNU/Linux distro" vs. "your greasy, sweaty friend's passion project." That's harsh to Guix System, but like... that learning curve is huge.
 
that learning curve is huge.
Buddy, you have no idea. The curve gets steeper and steeper the more you learn and, if you're like me, get the itch to keep customizing. Soon enough you're banging your head against your desk trying to cannibalize some guy's esoteric theming apparatus into your own raggedy clusterfuck and before you know it, you dream in Scheme. Wouldn't change it for the fuckin' world though, Guix System is my baby and I cannot ever imagine myself moving off of it.
 
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Also, fie upon Manjaro and all who use it because Manjaro deliberately holds back updates for an arbitrary period, lost their SSL certificate because they didn't renew... several times over the years, and AUR access is a minefield when you're running slightly older base and base-devel. Allan McRae, an Arch developer, wrote about Manjaro back in 2013 and literally everything that Allan warned about still remains true today. Probably even worse today because of those SSL certificate expirations that happened several times for their goddamn website.
Everything you just said is true.
...but...
My 8 year old PC is still running the Linux installation I dropped in on day one.
Granted, I've have to go balls-deep into SSL, Nvidia drivers, Python versions, and don't forget that time they dropped a whole pacman branch with the excuse they posted on a dev blog about 2 years previously,
But in the same period I've been dual-booting windows, and had to re-install windows 7 three times and W10 twice (I'm not touching 11 with a bargepole, and that partition is now firewalled from updating).
So, for all I moan about Manjaro fucking up, it's been pretty fucking solid, really.

Pity about them sliding into Wayland (also SystemD).
 
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So, for all I moan about Manjaro fucking up, it's been pretty fucking solid, really.

I don't doubt that Manjaro is capable of being rock-solid once you hammer away at it long enough and go through the trouble of managing your own software... but to that end:

Granted, I've have to go balls-deep into SSL, Nvidia drivers, Python versions, and that time they dropped a whole pacman branch with the excuse they posted about 2 years previously,

You outline all the shit that you did where you clearly went against the grain. If I didn't know any better, I'd assume you're running an older Xorg version to get AMD Catalyst to work. Why? xf86-video-ati improved tons over the years, but still sucks at 3D acceleration and AMDGPU tells you "tough tits faggot" if you're running anything older than a GCN card. Meanwhile, you're out here trying to get your HD 7970 to work properly.

Pity about them sliding into Wayland (also SystemD).

Don't blame Manjaro for the systemd switchover. Blame Arch because Manjaro's downstream to it. The ArchWiki page links to a forum thread that's like 13 years old now. That post the ArchWiki outlined the rationale for the Arch developers at the time as to why they switched over to systemd at the time. I've taken the liberty of pasting it here, if you're ever curious to know why.

tomegun from the Arch Forums on 21AUG2012 said:
Benefits:

I have spent too much time arguing against the perceived deficiencies of systemd (such as: "it is not written in bash", "it was started by Lennart Poettering", "I don't like the (optional) on-disk format of the journal", "it uses dbus", "systemd's PID1 does more and is bigger than sysvinit's PID1", "I think there might be this other project that possibly is doing something similar. I don't really know anything about it, but I'm pretty sure it is better than systemd" and I'm sure there are many more). I strongly believe that 1) all of these perceived deficiencies are not deficiencies, but are actually benefits 2) even if I'm wrong, these things are not hugely important. So, with that out of the way: let's ignore all of those old boring arguments and I'll outline a few things that I find awesome about systemd, and why I think we should all be very excited about soon being able to use it. In no particular order:

0) it is hotplug capable: systemd assumes that all resources may appear and dissapear at any time. If you plug in your external harddrive after systemd has booted, it will be fsck'ed and mounted correctly. This is unlike initscripts which relies on all disks being enumerated and ready when it starts fsck, and then it relies on fsck of all disks being finished before it starts mounting any of them. Hotplug is important, not only because it is convenient to be able to insert/remove hardware while the system is running, but also because that's how the linux kernel does boot: every device appears to be "hotplugged" as the kernel becomes aware of it, so with a very fast boot we can no longer assume that all devices are ready and waiting for us when we need them (even if they were plugged in when the computer started). In reality this is often not a problem, but if you ever had your rootfs on an external USB harddrive you might have experienced problems (and as things become faster and faster more problems like this will crop up).

1) we can know the state of the system: systemd keeps track of all daemons, and all processes that are started, and who owns what, and when something fails, etc. Also, using the (awesome) journal all syslog() entries and writes to stdout/stderr by all processes are captured by systemd. These are stored with enough meta-data so that you can very easily retrieve say "all entries from a certain service/binary/pid" or "all entries written by the kernel regarding a given device", etc. In addition to logging this information, and showing it to you, systemd will allow you to specify (easily) what to do in a wide range of possible error-scenarios: "a service shuts down normally/with an error/ on a signa" or "a service has not sent its watchdog signal in the designated time" or "a service has shutdown with an error 10 times in the last half hour". The recent addition of hardware watchdog support also allows you to say "restart the machine if systemd itself is not responding".

2) it is modular: all of what is now rc.sysinit is split out into many independent services, each of which is well documented and easy to understand. I.e., if you don't like how systemd e.g. does it's fstab handling, then you can write your own little helper (in bash if you wish) to replace the official one. Doing this in the old initscripts is much harder because 1) it is not so clear which parts of rc.sysinit are dependent on eachother 2) any changes you do you'll have to merge on every update.

3) it allows dbus/udev to go back to doing the task they are meant to do: both udev and dbus are currently (mis)-used to start daemons/long-running services on demand. In the case of dbus this is by design, but in the case of udev it is not. Either way, it is not what those daemons were built to do, so in keeping with the UNIX principle of one task per daemon, it is great that we can now let systemd (whose job it is to manage daemons) take this over. That is, udev and dbus can both signal systemd to start a certain daemon, and it will behave like if it was started in any other way (you have the logs, status etc). One problem that this solves is the inherent race-condition in some daemons (I think bluetoothd was guilty of this at some point) allowing both being started as soon as possible on boot (say by putting it in DAEMONS), and to be started on-demand by dbus. Systemd makes sure that both these things can happen, and if they do happen at the same time you will only end up with one instance of the daemon as expected.

4) we can reduce the number of explicit ordering dependencies between daemons (this might require changes to the daemons in question): using socket activation, automounting and dbus activation we are able to forget about stuff like "dbus must be running before we start avahi" or "yp-bind must be started after networkmanager". systemd can create sockets early on, before any daemons are started, and then pass the socket to the relevant daemon when it gets around to starting it. This means that anything can connect to anything else, without caring about whether or not the other daemon has finished starting yet. The kernel will simply buffer the requests whilst we wait and deliver them when it can. Notice that this does not actually remove any dependencies (so if there are circular deps, they will still be there), but it means we no longer have to specify them, nor worry about races between them.

5) we get a lot of security/sandboxing features for free: you can simply add some configuration options to the unit files in question to isolate them from the system in various ways. This was of course also possible before, but it required you to write lots of boilerplate code in every rc script, and this kind of things are very error prone, and best reviewed by people who know about this stuff.

6) systemd service files can (and hopefully will!) be written and distributed upstream: rather than every distro writing their own rc script (with their own set of trivial bugs and misunderstandings) the people who know the software the best (upstream) possibly with some input from the people who know the init system the best (systemd devs) can write "perfect" services that should just work everywhere. We have seen some of this already, and I think it is hugely benefitial. Even for distros who don't pick up systemd yet, this will allow them to at least have an idea oh how the software is meant to be initialized.

7) systemd is a cross-distro project: every major and many, many minor distros have had people contributing to systemd. last i heard even two debian devs have commit access to the repo, among many others. systemd upstream is very accommodating of different needs and different use-cases (as long as they are presented on technical grounds) and have been a pleasure to work with so far. We are getting the joint experience of a lot of people/projects who have worked on different init systems for a long time, I think this is one of the most important "features" one could have.

8) logind will finally deliver on what consolekit was supposed to do: we can now track user sessions and seats, assign permissions to resources on-the-fly etc. This should be the topic of a separate message, as it is too much to get into. Suffice it to say that I'm very happy that we are finally getting these features working as they should.

9) systemd is fast: Or is it really? Some claim there is no difference compared with initscripts, a very few claim it is slower, the vast majority claim it is a lot faster. I claim that I really don't care. The above points (which is just what I could think of at the top of my head, so not exhaustive by any means) would hopefully convince you that systemd is the right choice irrespective of its speed, and once you try it out you might be in for a pleasant surprise ;-)

See, this era of early systemd adoption is so surreal to look back on. It's weirdly optimistic, technically correct on some measure, but also tinged with that insufferable, smarmy, self-righteous faggotry that made systemd proponents so fucking insufferable at the time. Systemd really did solve a lot of problems that the old sysvinit had (or even caused). Yet knowing the scope and feature creep that systemd would succumb to in later years, not to mention the accompanying CVEs, NOTABUGs, and WONTFIXes that would follow, kinda makes these posts vindicating in a bitter, resigned "I told you so but you wouldn't listen" sort of way. Had systemd remained limited in scope to simply being an init framework and nothing more, I would genuinely have no problem with it. That's why dinit is such a tragic project to me. Right idea, absolutely rotten timing, and only living on through niche projects like Artix giving it any modicum of exposure. Dinit really is a "systemd done right," but you won't *ever* find people mainlining dinit unless they're either Artix users or just completely fucking mental with highly custom Arch/Gentoo configs.

You won't ever see a Linux From Scratch book or Gentoo handbook where you use dinit, s6, let alone runit. Gentoo technically wins because OpenRC handbook is one of the officially supported options, but LFS only gives us systemd or sysvinit flavours.
 
Mainline Mint, then LMDE for specialized drive installs, then Arch and whatever else.

Speaking of specialized drive configurations, you really have to go out of your way in the mainline Linux Mint flavors like editing the installer programs configuration files just to get the gui to cooperate with encrypted partitions. LMDE has an expert mode installer which is far more streamlined for the task.
 
That Appimage was probably compiled on Arch or another distro with a newer glibc. The linker sees a mismatched version of some glibc function in your executable's metadata and aborts. You can try weakening the dependency or patching an older version into the table (when applicable) of an already compiled program if you're insane.
Wait, I can blame AppImage incompatibilities on Arch? Oh, don't threaten me with a good time.

Very interesting re how to override those version dependencies, thanks. And, of course this doesn't seem to be something that more than one AppImage enthusiast ever actually gives a shit about. If it was a serious package distribution format there would be reasonable agreement from the 'community' that compiling on whatever is the most outdated out of Debian oldstable and the oldest supported Ubuntu LTS release is the standard.
The 1960s Beetle would be sct, which is what I use. Qt/Q and GTK prefixes mean that there's either a console utility or a library that's doing the heavy lifting. In this case it's redshift, the CLI program. All you're doing is choosing which GUI flavor you want - Gnome, Qt or none. If the screwing around is too much of a pain in the ass, you can try doing that on a system you're already familiar with. Windows also has a fair few things you can configure and tweak.
I just have scripts to run an hour or two before I am going to go to sleep that turn the screen brutally red like so
xrandr --output eDP-1 --gamma .7:0.225:0.25
I know when I'm going to go to sleep and I will often take valerian supplements, tart cherry juice, etc, around that same time that I change the gamma, so I see no reason not to do this manually and enjoy proper colour balance all the way up until I actually do need to start preparing for bed.

Not saying automatic colour changes are bad, but to me they make more sense for home lighting than for screens.
 
what oses would you guys recommend b/c i wanna mess around with linucks a little more

Depends on how far down the rabbit hole you're willing to go, and whether or not you'll be virtualising through something like QEMU, VirtualBox, VMWare, etc or booting off an external drive so you can play with Linux on bare metal without committing to anything.

I'll spare you the usual recommendations of Ubuntu/Debian clones, Fedora/RHEL clones, and give you some true "mess around with linucks" options. @Ferryman @prollyanotherlurker got anything else along these lines?

a) Artix
+ Arch variant
+ No systemd
+ Has XLibre
+ ISOs for text console or graphical environments
+ Multiple inits to fuck around with
- Arch variant
- Pain in the ass to do anything without systemd or sysvinit
- Community GTK/QT variants have tons of cool shit but they're ugly as sin

b) Gentoo
+ Build everything from source
+ Countless customisation, tweaking, and optimisation options like USE, SLOT, etc
+ emerge @world is way cooler than pacman -Syu or yay -Syua
+ They're the ones who made OpenRC
- Build everything from source
- You will spend hours looking at your terminal compiling crap
- Using binary packages in Gentoo means that you can't git gud

c) Linux From Scratch *and* Beyond Linux From Scratch
+ The ultimate autistic Linux passion project
+ Exists solely as documentation. You fetch and compile *everything* from source
+ You learn *everything* about how Guh-New Lih-nucks functions on an extremely granular level
+ Linux autists everywhere tremble in fear before you, who managed to git gud enough to do LFS and BLFS back-to-back
+ Your neofetch screenshots will mog everyone else's, even the most riced out Arch Hyprland setup.
+ You can turn a successful LFS base install into your own custom rescue USB *and* convert your BLFS system into a live ISO.
- Build everything from source
- You will spend weeks looking at your terminal compiling crap
- Using an LFS hint to get proper package management up and running means that you forfeit all your git gud cred.

d) Guix System
+ 100% free software inside and out
+ Absolute madman's paradise where everything you do is written in Guile Scheme
+ Mastering the learning curve proves you've got cojones
+ The ultimate OS for anyone who fell down the Emacs rabbit hole and can't be satsified with Doom Emacs, Spacemacs, or anything else like that
+ It does what Nix does without the smug, insufferable corporate hijacking.
- LFS is genuinely easier than Guix System. LFS lets you more or less paste commands. Guix requires you to know a real programming language
- You're on your own if forum posts, mailing lists, and the Guix manual can't help you
- Your neofetch screenshot hits different from an LFS one.
 
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Nothing you say means anything to him. Mint will just work for him. He doesn't need to spend more time tinkering than actually using his computer.

I was being facetious dude. He comes in here asking about "linucks" and everyone else is gonna recommend Mint anyway. Mint is the ubiquitous option that literally everyone from this thread to tech slop YouTubers ultimately recommend to absolute newcomers. Might as well buck the trend and be like "oh yeah, you wanna screw around? Here's a real man's screw around distro."
 
what oses would you guys recommend b/c i wanna mess around with linucks a little more
Personally I recommend EndevourOS because it comes with what I need preconfigured, including my Nvidia drivers, and just works. Love me Arch repo and yay/pacman. But I would just do what others have said and stick with Linux Mint. Ultimately distro hopping is a waste of time and when the time comes, you can just try something else when you need to reinstall an OS. Like my laptop has OpenSuse, which is OK, but not my first choice of distros. Works well enough that I don't feel the need to switch back so take that as you will.
 
what oses would you guys recommend b/c i wanna mess around with linucks a little more

Personally I recommend EndevourOS because it comes with what I need
I'll add to this...

Almost half a year into using Linux full-time as my daily driver and I’m honestly really pleased.
Started with Pop!_OS, but my laptop didn’t get along with it at all, so I switched to CachyOS and it’s been amazing ever since.
It’s Arch-based (like EndeavourOS), comes with a ton of great options in the installer, and has hands-down the best kernel manager I’ve seen. Ships with its own custom kernels, stays super fast and light, has well-maintained bleeding-edge repos, and even comes with NVIDIA drivers pre-installed and working perfectly.
If you want something fast, light, and dead-simple to get running—but still fully Arch under the hood for tinkering—CachyOS is perfect. I’d especially recommend it with KDE Plasma if you’re coming from Windows.


It also isn't made by Bazzite Nigger Faggots.
 
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