The new American right is worthless and is a failure by its own design.

[Mewtwo_Rain]

I've not proposed a solution. I've pointed out to you that free speech is not a luxury and explained why, and also explained we've gotten a lot less of it since 2016.

Your ability to freely share and receive information is fundamental. For all the power the left has gotten by restricting and taking that away piece by piece, it has also made them blind and stupid and delusional. The right shouldn't try to imitate that. No one should.

Hate to interject for as much as I agree with some of your sentiments I have to thoroughly disagree with others.

I disagree that Freedom of speech isn't a luxury. All freedoms and options there in ae luxuries. This is why our founding fathers specifically Benjamin Franklin mentioned eternal freedom requiring eternal vigilance. It's much like taking care of a pet, if you don't feed and water it and provide the supple environment for it to thrive it dies very quickly. It's also why the founding fathers hated normies and society because he like many are realizing normies can be used against their own best interest with simple distractions, emotions, and mind tricks.

The reason the left has taken so much away is because the right used no force to protect it. You can argue "What about those not of the right?" The right was the bastion for freedom. Centrist for the majority are spineless complacent loons who will fall with whoever is in power until it's too late to change that stance and the left was waiting to destroy it with brute force and social control .Something the left dominate with already.

The problem is the right throws a tantrum at the left and thinks laughing at the left will stop them, it won't. Same with these politicians because if merely mocking them worked the left would have changed years ago. It only rejuvenated them in a feral cause that they will never give up on. The problem is the right also tried the Sun Tzu bullshit and failed to realize Sun used force behind the scenes, while letting his enemies make mistakes, he didn't just wait for things to happen. If you wait too long to expose your enemy as a fool, you will be the fool not them.

Completely agree. Without God all of the things the Left advocates for kinda makes sense.

I really hope you’re joking.

I can see the other sides argument here, when you set a moral line you have to make sure the people in power who set that line remain in power or else the other side will use that morality line as a springboard to push their own "morality" or lack there of, as we see in modern era. A moral line isn't bad, but if not upheld ( by force)well leads to the slope we see in society. Also by reinforcing the moral line in stupid ways (See Christians and Harry Potter books/Pokemon/Yuigioh claims) you then push normies to think maybe the religious leaders are idiots who should be distanced from, and if they're wrong about those books/groups maybe their morality is wrong as well. Basically it requires a tight balancing rope act to make sure not to go too far with a moral line or you'll lose everyone.

 

[Mayor Adam West]

I can see the other sides argument here, when you set a moral line you have to make sure the people in power who set that line remain in power or else the other side will use that morality line as a springboard to push their own "morality" or lack there of, as we see in modern era. A moral line isn't bad, but if not upheld ( by force)well leads to the slope we see in society. Also by reinforcing the moral line in stupid ways (See Christians and Harry Potter books/Pokemon/Yuigioh claims) you then push normies to think maybe the religious leaders are idiots who should be distanced from, and if they're wrong about those books/groups maybe their morality is wrong as well. Basically it requires a tight balancing rope act to make sure not to go too far with a moral line or you'll lose everyone.

I think that isn’t a problem with a strong and responsible government.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

I think that isn’t a problem with a strong and responsible government.

Yeah but government is run by the people, and people can be good or bad, so one side must be eternally vigilant it is their duty to uphold a free speech/free society. If not the majority of irresponsible people will do what they've done and then those that are drenched in evil will then also go from there.

*Evil here isn't being used to mean supernatural.

 

[Terrorist]

In the end, Trump was the typical phony who’s a populist in an election year like literally every other politician is but predictably ended up doing jack shit. He said what he said in 2016 entirely cynically with no intent to deliver on it.

People talk of some great realignment but all that ended up happening was that a slightly-browner cohort of people got shuffled to the same do-nothing GOP…big whoop.

My advice is to hold no faith in what any politician or political movement promises and instead focus on building a life for yourself and your loved ones.

 

[Mayor Adam West]

Yeah but government is run by the people, and people can be good or bad, so one side must be eternally vigilant it is their duty to uphold a free speech/free society. If not the majority of irresponsible people will do what they've done and then those that are drenched in evil will then also go from there.

*Evil here isn't being used to mean supernatural.

Free speech?

 

[WhatIsThePunchline]

Not making a case for escalating US involvement. I think that the current economical sanctions, intelligence sharing and defensive arms deliveries are already more than the US is morally obliged to do. Where I see hypocrisy is in implicit or explicit support for Russia.

Fair enough, however any argument that starts with 'I don't think we should start WWIII over ukraine-russia' will almost immediately lead towards 'I don't think Russia is as bad as the war fever is currently portraying them as'.

It's difficult arguing for limiting or not escalating the support for Ukraine without also implicitly or explicitly supporting Russia.

Hate to interject for as much as I agree with some of your sentiments I have to thoroughly disagree with others.

I disagree that Freedom of speech isn't a luxury. All freedoms and options there in ae luxuries. This is why our founding fathers specifically Benjamin Franklin mentioned eternal freedom requiring eternal vigilance. It's much like taking care of a pet, if you don't feed and water it and provide the supple environment for it to thrive it dies very quickly. It's also why the founding fathers hated normies and society because he like many are realizing normies can be used against their own best interest with simple distractions, emotions, and mind tricks.

The reason the left has taken so much away is because the right used no force to protect it. You can argue "What about those not of the right?" The right was the bastion for freedom. Centrist for the majority are spineless complacent loons who will fall with whoever is in power until it's too late to change that stance and the left was waiting to destroy it with brute force and social control .Something the left dominate with already.

The problem is the right throws a tantrum at the left and thinks laughing at the left will stop them, it won't. Same with these politicians because if merely mocking them worked the left would have changed years ago. It only rejuvenated them in a feral cause that they will never give up on. The problem is the right also tried the Sun Tzu bullshit and failed to realize Sun used force behind the scenes, while letting his enemies make mistakes, he didn't just wait for things to happen. If you wait too long to expose your enemy as a fool, you will be the fool not them.


I can see the other sides argument here, when you set a moral line you have to make sure the people in power who set that line remain in power or else the other side will use that morality line as a springboard to push their own "morality" or lack there of, as we see in modern era. A moral line isn't bad, but if not upheld ( by force)well leads to the slope we see in society. Also by reinforcing the moral line in stupid ways (See Christians and Harry Potter books/Pokemon/Yuigioh claims) you then push normies to think maybe the religious leaders are idiots who should be distanced from, and if they're wrong about those books/groups maybe their morality is wrong as well. Basically it requires a tight balancing rope act to make sure not to go too far with a moral line or you'll lose everyone.

Something being a luxury implies it's unnecessary.

As for the rest yeah people need to rethink how to handle the current and future political landscape.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

Free speech?

Or any values the right wing has. If you hand your enemies the tools to power and don't make those values/lines concrete, when switching hands there is a risk of it being dissolved.

Fair enough, however any argument that starts with 'I don't think we should start WWIII over ukraine-russia' will almost immediately lead towards 'I don't think Russia is as bad as the war fever is currently portraying them as'.

It's difficult arguing for limiting or not escalating the support for Ukraine without also implicitly or explicitly supporting Russia.


Something being a luxury implies it's unnecessary.

As for the rest yeah people need to rethink how to handle the current and future political landscape.

I disagree with the first part, I think too many pro-Ukrainian's are pushing anyone who doesn't want involved as "pro-Russian" and it makes people less sympathetic to Ukraine's plight. Too many pro-Ukraine pushers sound as preachy as the left on micro-aggressions, if you don't condemn Russia and support everyone targeting Russia you must be 100% pro-Russian, which is not only bullshit but a form of propaganda, and disgusting as a claim. Hell, if you dare criticize Zelinsky and think he needs better tactics, you must 100% be Russian with some Pro-Ukraine people why everyone thinks of them as jackasses bar a few of us here and there who aren't driven by emotions like the left. Never mind you think we should avoid leading to WWIII if possible, or think that Ukraine could far better with better leaders. That's the problem with one train of thought thinking in this conflict.

The world doesn't have free speech. Only a few have ever had it, it is much a luxury, than owning diamonds or anything else, and when it is available must be protected at all costs ( the situation leading up to it existing in the first place) the fact it can be taken away and has been, and everyone didn't instantly die proves it is a luxury of sorts.

Like I say all the time as a non-right wing person myself, this is not going to end with politics. I think the right needs to face that reality, because politics isn't going to correct what the right fucked up on and let happen in the first place.

 

[KittyGremlin]

Fair enough, however any argument that starts with 'I don't think we should start WWIII over ukraine-russia' will almost immediately lead towards 'I don't think Russia is as bad as the war fever is currently portraying them as'.

It's difficult arguing for limiting or not escalating the support for Ukraine without also implicitly or explicitly supporting Russia.

Having lived near Russia for all my life, I would say that their behavior depicted in MSM is hardly exaggerated, if my anecdotal statement would mean anything. Honestly, the left has cried wolf for the better part of the last decade it's hard to hate Americans for being skeptical about the current narrative. Is it worth starting WW3 over Ukraine? Probably not. If the world was as isolated as it was many years ago perhaps this line of thought would be feasible. But even as far as WW1 we have learned that a single war will ripple through no matter what we do. And if Russia is allowed to get away with taking a nation with nuclear threats alone, they'll do it again.

Personally, I'd advocate for a soft increase of European military support and keeping the economic slow cooker on. It will both keep Ukraine fighting and will fuck up Russia in the long term if they don't clean up their act without giving an excuse for a Russian nuclear strike. Again, US doesn't need to do more than it's doing already.

As per European natural resource dependence which is inevitably brought up in this discussion, I would like to say that this is a pretty complicated topic. Europe isn't a monolith in terms of its dependence on Russian resources. Some countries have rid themselves of this need entirely and source their gas elsewhere. Some never needed them anyway. Others have a large degree of dependence but also have the economic dick to swing in terms of maneuvering around this. Some are indeed in a tough spot. I feel that it's mostly a question of how much it will costs us, not whether we can or can not get rid of this tether to Kremlin.

 

[gang weeder]

Completely agree. Without God all of the things the Left advocates for kinda makes sense.

I really hope you’re joking.

I'm poking fun at "right-wing" atheists who try to go against the left while still accepting its central premise that morality is subjective.

 

[WhatIsThePunchline]

Or any values the right wing has. If you hand your enemies the tools to power and don't make those values/lines concrete, when switching hands there is a risk of it being dissolved.


I disagree with the first part, I think too many pro-Ukrainian's are pushing anyone who doesn't want involved as "pro-Russian" and it makes people less sympathetic to Ukraine's plight. Too many pro-Ukraine pushers sound as preachy as the left on micro-aggressions, if you don't condemn Russia and support everyone targeting Russia you must be 100% pro-Russian, which is not only bullshit but a form of propaganda, and disgusting as a claim. Hell, if you dare criticize Zelinsky and think he needs better tactics, you must 100% be Russian with some Pro-Ukraine people why everyone thinks of them as jackasses bar a few of us here and there who aren't driven by emotions like the left. Never mind you think we should avoid leading to WWIII if possible, or think that Ukraine could far better with better leaders. That's the problem with one train of thought thinking in this conflict.

The world doesn't have free speech. Only a few have ever had it, it is much a luxury, than owning diamonds or anything else, and when it is available must be protected at all costs ( the situation leading up to it existing in the first place) the fact it can be taken away and has been, and everyone didn't instantly die proves it is a luxury of sorts.

Like I say all the time as a non-right wing person myself, this is not going to end with politics. I think the right needs to face that reality, because politics isn't going to correct what the right fucked up on and let happen in the first place.

Having lived near Russia for all my life, I would say that their behavior depicted in MSM is hardly exaggerated, if my anecdotal statement would mean anything. Honestly, the left has cried wolf for the better part of the last decade it's hard to hate Americans for being skeptical about the current narrative. Is it worth starting WW3 over Ukraine? Probably not. If the world was as isolated as it was many years ago perhaps this line of thought would be feasible. But even as far as WW1 we have learned that a single war will ripple through no matter what we do. And if Russia is allowed to get away with taking a nation with nuclear threats alone, they'll do it again.

Personally, I'd advocate for a soft increase of European military support and keeping the economic slow cooker on. It will both keep Ukraine fighting and will fuck up Russia in the long term if they don't clean up their act without giving an excuse for a Russian nuclear strike. Again, US doesn't need to do more than it's doing already.

As per European natural resource dependence which is inevitably brought up in this discussion, I would like to say that this is a pretty complicated topic. Europe isn't a monolith in terms of its dependence on Russian resources. Some countries have rid themselves of this need entirely and source their gas elsewhere. Some never needed them anyway. Others have a large degree of dependence but also have the economic dick to swing in terms of maneuvering around this. Some are indeed in a tough spot. I feel that it's mostly a question of how much it will costs us, not whether we can or can not get rid of this tether to Kremlin.

Yeah my plan right now is to save up money in case the economy gets even worse (I'm not confident in american or european or anyone elses energy politics at the moment) and also try to keep in touch with friends and family cause I might need them in the future or they might need me.

 

[Mayor Adam West]

I'm poking fun at "right-wing" atheists who try to go against the left while still accepting its central premise that morality is subjective.

Ah I see.

 

[HarryHowler]

In the end, Trump was the typical phony who’s a populist in an election year like literally every other politician is but predictably ended up doing jack shit. He said what he said in 2016 entirely cynically with no intent to deliver on it.

People talk of some great realignment but all that ended up happening was that a slightly-browner cohort of people got shuffled to the same do-nothing GOP…big whoop.

My advice is to hold no faith in what any politician or political movement promises and instead focus on building a life for yourself and your loved ones.

I think Trump did genuinely intend to bring about a major shake-up of the status quo, albeit more for his own personal glorification (and some pipe dream of Donald Jr succeeding him in 2024, followed by Ivanka in 2032, then Eric in 2040, etc.) than doing what was best for the country. His real problem was that he didn't have any clue how to actually achieve it, meaning that he spent two years fucking around trying and failing to repeal Obamacare, then lost control of the House, and with it, any chance of his presidency being a serious game-changer.

 

[male pattern malding]

Completely agree. Without God all of the things the Left advocates for kinda makes sense.

nah most of them still make no fucking sense whatsoever

 

[George Floyd Sneed]

I think Trump did genuinely intend to bring about a major shake-up of the status quo, albeit more for his own personal glorification (and some pipe dream of Donald Jr succeeding him in 2024, followed by Ivanka in 2032, then Eric in 2040, etc.) than doing what was best for the country. His real problem was that he didn't have any clue how to actually achieve it, meaning that he spent two years fucking around trying and failing to repeal Obamacare, then lost control of the House, and with it, any chance of his presidency being a serious game-changer.

Ivanka was his successor, Donald doesn’t have much faith in Don Jr and Eric. Ivanka was a bimbo LARPing as a power broker and that was apparently the best the Trump family could do in terms of a succession plan. Sad!

Trump was a stunningly incompetent James Buchanan-tier president. He talked about draining the swamp yet loaded his cabinet with the absolute dregs of the swamp; he talked about taking on China while the trade deficit with China deepened; while America burned he watched and monitored Twitter and Fox News; he’d only lift a finger only if the Kushners told him to which is why he did so much for Israel and pardoned shit tier people like Kwame Kilpatrick and rappers who were openly critical of him and his supporters. On that note, hoo boy that Platinum Plan was such an utter embarrassment. He let himself get outwitted at every turn because his swamp creatures deliberately gave him falsified information and would only listen to his bimbo daughter and her wetbrained husband. Henry Kissinger they ain’t.

The only reason why people talk fondly about Trump outside of die hard partisans is that life is getting increasingly browner and shittier. Life is better in 2017 than 2022 but 2012 was better than 2017, 2007 better than 2012, and so on. We’re in a deep, irreversible decline - every year previous is going to be better than the current year. That’s the very definition of decline.

The purported red wave is not going to help as most true work is done via executive fiat and government scope creep. All this new red wave will do is vote for lower taxes for large corporations and give more free shit to Israel.

It is what it is. Stop putting faith in politicians who will do the exact opposite of what they run on and start building resilient families and communities. That’s the only real viable solution along with just going to the many countries that are ascending versus countries in decline in America.

 

[Mexican_Wizard_711]

Because Life is a Zero Sum Game, There is only Winners and Losers

 

[The Cunting Death]

No matter who wins, we lose

 

[HarryHowler]

Trump was a stunningly incompetent James Buchanan-tier president. He talked about draining the swamp yet loaded his cabinet with the absolute dregs of the swamp; he talked about taking on China while the trade deficit with China deepened; while America burned he watched and monitored Twitter and Fox News; he’d only lift a finger only if the Kushners told him to which is why he did so much for Israel and pardoned shit tier people like Kwame Kilpatrick and rappers who were openly critical of him and his supporters. On that note, hoo boy that Platinum Plan was such an utter embarrassment. He let himself get outwitted at every turn because his swamp creatures deliberately gave him falsified information and would only listen to his bimbo daughter and her wetbrained husband. Henry Kissinger they ain’t.

The only reason why people talk fondly about Trump outside of die hard partisans is that life is getting increasingly browner and shittier. Life is better in 2017 than 2022 but 2012 was better than 2017, 2007 better than 2012, and so on. We’re in a deep, irreversible decline - every year previous is going to be better than the current year. That’s the very definition of decline.

The purported red wave is not going to help as most true work is done via executive fiat and government scope creep. All this new red wave will do is vote for lower taxes for large corporations and give more free shit to Israel.

It is what it is. Stop putting faith in politicians who will do the exact opposite of what they run on and start building resilient families and communities. That’s the only real viable solution along with just going to the many countries that are ascending versus countries in decline in America.

Eh, I'm not sure I'd say Trump was as bad as Buchanan, or even Bush Jr., but it's kinda telling that when people do praise his presidency (outside of things that would probably have still happened if Jeb, Cruz, or Kasich had gotten elected in 2016), it tends to be for things that he didn't actually do, i.e. not starting any wars.

 

[George Floyd Sneed]

Eh, I'm not sure I'd say Trump was as bad as Buchanan, or even Bush Jr., but it's kinda telling that when people do praise his presidency (outside of things that would probably have still happened if Jeb, Cruz, or Kasich had gotten elected in 2016), it tends to be for things that he didn't actually do, i.e. not starting any wars.

America is thoroughly fatigued with the forever wars. Obama was unsuccessful in convincing the country to go to Syria (which a small amount went anyway) so this isn’t anything special. The wad was blown with the 2003 Iraq War. Even now with Ukraine, the most anyone will commit to is a hashtag, thoughts and prayers, and maybe a small donation here and there.

It’s a byproduct of decades of conditioning that America is evil and nationalism is bad. So why fight and die for a country if it’s considered a bad thing? The conditioning wasn’t quite there in 2003 but it is now. So not sure Trump really gets any credit for something no President has been able to pull off since 2003.

He is considered a Buchanan-tier president because both presided over deeply divided countries and did nothing about them. Trump deciding to focus on Israel instead of any domestic issue was shameful and hence, at the level of the other incompetent shitwit who did nothing when real leadership was needed.

 

[Lord Neeba]

Yeah but government is run by the people, and people can be good or bad, so one side must be eternally vigilant it is their duty to uphold a free speech/free society. If not the majority of irresponsible people will do what they've done and then those that are drenched in evil will then also go from there.

*Evil here isn't being used to mean supernatural.

And yet it is almost exclusively free societies that produced the insanity of the contemporary era, not authoritarian ones.

In the end, Trump was the typical phony who’s a populist in an election year like literally every other politician is but predictably ended up doing jack shit. He said what he said in 2016 entirely cynically with no intent to deliver on it.

People talk of some great realignment but all that ended up happening was that a slightly-browner cohort of people got shuffled to the same do-nothing GOP…big whoop.

My advice is to hold no faith in what any politician or political movement promises and instead focus on building a life for yourself and your loved ones.

People were hoping Trump was a 21st century William Jennings Bryan, who basically came out of nowhere to single handily take over the Democrats in 1896 and reforge the party in his own image, massively changing its governing agenda in the process. But Trump turned out to be a 21st century Franklin Pearce or James Buchannan, who talked a big game about new ideas and new directions for the party in the election but then preceded to govern exactly how their predecessors had.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

And yet it is almost exclusively free societies that produced the insanity of the contemporary era, not authoritarian ones.

That's because those who wish to sabotage free societies do it from non-free societies. Someone planning to sabotage a free (or near free) society can't do it from authoritarian ones. One of the unfortunate ironies of life.