The Sequel to Subverting Expectations: Meta Media, Multiverses, Memberberries and Nostalgia Bait - A New Trend for 2022 (Spiderman and Matrix Spoilers within, be Warned)

[Tommy's Mom]

You really missed the point of Matrix 4. As a Matrix movie, it was a horrible piece of garbage. But as a Fuck You to Warner Bros and the NPC fans who will love everything Matrix, it's pretty fucking hilarious.

1. In the opening scene, the neon sign that the blue-haired chick slides down reads: For Those Who Love To Eat Shit
2. There is a prosthetic hand on Neo's desk that is giving the finger surrounded by Matrix merch
3. The scene where they literally admit: "Hey, Warner told us they were doing this with or without us, and they're going to cancel our contract if we don't do it."
4. The 'brainstorming session' for 'Matrix 4' juxtaposed with Neo literally taking a shit
5. Etc etc etc

There are so many times in this movie where they are practically screaming, "We didn't want to make this bullshit, so here it is, and Fuck You." It's impossible to list them all. This is a movie where you need to study the backgrounds and the set decorations to catch every single "Fuck You" but they were being so overt in their messaging that I'm really surprised you didn't pick up on it.
In a weird way, I almost admire what they did. They intentionally burned the entire franchise to the ground. No one will ever want to see another Matrix movie again after this.

Agree with your take on Spider-Man though.

 

[The Lawgiver]

Homestuck 2 which is in eterna-hiatus now because of some fucking beef the people hired to write it had for the fans and the source content is a big example of this shit. It's got the same bitterness situation these sorts of "meta" remakes do as well as the half-assery and pointing out how META things are using big words like CANON in nebulous and meta ways! woOooOoO! Ready player 1 came out before it as well as a few others, but ready player 1 is more space jam: a new legacy minus the "self aware jokes about warner bros" where it's almost entirely positively framed rather than negative framing.

By the way, if anyone is thinking this will only apply to Hollywood, you're going to be mistaken for even countries like Japan have also resorted to ideas such as Nostalgia Bait and Membererries Hell, in 2021 alone we have Yashahime (sequel to Inuyasha), Getter Arc (the conclusion of Getter Saga), and SSSS. Dynazenon (sequel to SSSS. Gridman, itself a remake of Gridman); and next year we would also have the remake of Urusei Yatsura or Space Invader Lum

SSSS gridman is not a meta or nostalgia remake/sequel . It's something that frames itself as a remake but then midway through drops hints and then outright shows it's a sequel. Theres a lot of media that does this shit to varying degrees of success but from what I remember watching the thing after my friend recommended it to me a few years back it does it fairly well. Part of it probably stems from the creators being actual fans of the source material that aren't "fans" in the sense of modern social media type of fan or kevin smith esque fake fan. The series is its own thing detatched from the original series but is simultaneously a sequel.Haven't gotten around to seeing dynazenon but I know they completely change the designs of the characters from SSSS gridman that return for it in a way that looks like utter shit to me. I'm probably gonna post this shit in the thread about shit redesigns becaus holy fuck, what the hell were they thinking?

 

[Lensherr]

Kevin Smith does not hate his audience. But then again your all just the toxic incel manbabies who hated Masters Of The Universe Revelation to begin with. Yeah Smith ain't perfect but to say be hates fans is ridiculous

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

You really missed the point of Matrix 4. As a Matrix movie, it was a horrible piece of garbage. But as a Fuck You to Warner Bros and the NPC fans who will love everything Matrix, it's pretty fucking hilarious.

Except the joke wasn't funny most of the time.

It failed at being a "Fuck you to Warner brothers" the movie would have been unironically better if they had just made it without the Bitter asshole who didn't want to be there in charge.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

I agree with what you said in the OP but the fact that you keep referring to Andrew Garfield as "Antony Garfield" triggered my 'tism. But that aside, I think the Flash film if done right could be one of the few films that work in this way, as it is bringing back Affleck's batman to give closure to his character, and same for Keaton, but after the recent plot leak, the whole "Hamada is working for disney and intentionally sabotaging DC" bs almost makes sense

 

[The Valeyard]

I agree with what you said in the OP but the fact that you keep referring to Andrew Garfield as "Antony Garfield" triggered my 'tism. But that aside, I think the Flash film if done right could be one of the few films that work in this way, as it is bringing back Affleck's batman to give closure to his character, and same for Keaton, but after the recent plot leak, the whole "Hamada is working for disney and intentionally sabotaging DC" bs almost makes sense

Fans would have been fine with Michael Keaton’s Batman passing the torch if it was to Terry McGinnis in a live-action Batman Beyond movie or series, but Warner Bros. are wasting that opportunity.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Fans would have been fine with Michael Keaton’s Batman passing the torch if it was in a live-action Batman Beyond movie or series, but Warner Bros. are wasting that opportunity.

Now I am trying to improve a Shitty Shitty CW show buuuuuuuut

*Gets on Soapbox with a Bullhorn*

BATWOMAN SHOULD HAVE USED THE NAME TERRI (with an I) MACGINNUS AS A BATWOMAN USING THE ENHANCED BATSUIT.

It would have gone far better than Kate Kane.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Fans would have been fine with Michael Keaton’s Batman passing the torch if it was to Terry McGinnis in a live-action Batman Beyond movie or series, but Warner Bros. are wasting that opportunity.

I dunno. Even in Beyond, Terry was kinda meh as a character. Make Batman into Spiderman, essentially. As unrealistic as Bruce Wayne is, his character as an isolated old money aristocrat with an obsession to the detriment of his personal life was the best part of TAS. Watching this old guy dealing with his mortality was more interesting than seeing Terry sleep through class and failing to show up on time for his girlfriend.

 

[EmpireOfTheClouds]

Fans would have been fine with Michael Keaton’s Batman passing the torch if it was to Terry McGinnis in a live-action Batman Beyond movie or series, but Warner Bros. are wasting that opportunity.

The thing is, the DCEU was always trash and it's incredibly bewildering to me that people are just noticing it now. Zack Snyder laid the worst possible foundation for a cinematic universe, then came post Snyder where it was clear that people weren't interested in making anything connect (and sure, Shazam and The Suicide Squad were great movies, but doesn't mean they're part of a good whole overall), and now they're using The Flash as bait to undo everything and bringing Keaton and Kilmer in just to sell tickets.

Also, speaking of The Flash, it's shameful that they're using THE FLASH of all characters for this. No self respecting Flash Fan wants "We have No Way Home at Home" or Time travel. We just want a movie about Barry Allen being a good boi and helping people and getting into kerfuffles with b list villains like Captain Boomerang or Calendar Man along the way, which is what The Flash has always been about.

And for fucks sakes DCEU writers, READ A FUCKING COMIC. Time Travel is seen as a BAD thing in the Flash comics. Every Time Travel themed story in the comics is about how the speedsters should never use it.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

The thing is, the DCEU was always trash and it's incredibly bewildering to me that people are just noticing it now. Zack Snyder laid the worst possible foundation for a cinematic universe, then came post Snyder where it was clear that people weren't interested in making anything connect (and sure, Shazam and The Suicide Squad were great movies, but doesn't mean they're part of a good whole overall), and now they're using The Flash as bait to undo everything and bringing Keaton and Kilmer in just to sell tickets.

Also, speaking of The Flash, it's shameful that they're using THE FLASH of all characters for this. No self respecting Flash Fan wants "We have No Way Home at Home" or Time travel. We just want a movie about Barry Allen being a good boi and helping people and getting into kerfuffles with b list villains like Captain Boomerang or Calendar Man along the way, which is what The Flash has always been about.

And for fucks sakes DCEU writers, READ A FUCKING COMIC. Time Travel is seen as a BAD thing in the Flash comics. Every Time Travel themed story in the comics is about how the speedsters should never use it.

It doesn't help that Snyder was just put there by Warner Bros since he didn't seem to have intended to make a cinematic universe until he was tasked with it since Warner wanted the same success Marvel had..

 

[EmpireOfTheClouds]

It doesn't help that Snyder was just put there by Warner Bros since he didn't seem to have intended to make a cinematic universe until he was tasked with it since Warner wanted the same success Marvel had..

Yeah, this is why I have trouble believing Snyder cultists who tell me that it was "always intended to be a universe, before Marvel". It's pretty clear from MOS being a backdoor Nolan movie that it wasn't. I've also spoken to people who worked on the movies who have confirmed it, and even a stunt actor went on a fan podcast to confirm that the infamous retarded "Knightmare" scene in BVS was just thrown in last second as Marvel bait. One even confirmed to me that the Wayne Enterprises logo on the satellite was an 11th hour and 59th minute addition made when Avengers won the box office that weekend. Then the whole "five movie arc" thing began.

Way back before Cracked went off the deep end, they wrote an article about movies basically expecting to get sequels. I think that's why Marvel has had the most success at the universe thing: They lay groundwork for future stuff while still being self contained stories. The DCEU just feels like a long ass story, it never feels like they planned any of this from the start.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

Yeah, this is why I have trouble believing Snyder cultists who tell me that it was "always intended to be a universe, before Marvel". It's pretty clear from MOS being a backdoor Nolan movie that it wasn't. I've also spoken to people who worked on the movies who have confirmed it, and even a stunt actor went on a fan podcast to confirm that the infamous retarded "Knightmare" scene in BVS was just thrown in last second as Marvel bait. One even confirmed to me that the Wayne Enterprises logo on the satellite was an 11th hour and 59th minute addition made when Avengers won the box office that weekend. Then the whole "five movie arc" thing began.

Way back before Cracked went off the deep end, they wrote an article about movies basically expecting to get sequels. I think that's why Marvel has had the most success at the universe thing: They lay groundwork for future stuff while still being self contained stories. The DCEU just feels like a long ass story, it never feels like they planned any of this from the start.

As you said it was never planned to be cinematic universe, I think originally Snyder was just planning to make your standard standalone Superman trilogy, but that got turned into the "five movie arc" as Warner wanted their own "MCU but with DC characters", I personally wouldn't have minded a five movie arc as long as it was planned, like the Lord of the Rings its a three movie long arc, it tells a story it has an end and thats it no endless sequels and shit, but maybe thats just me

 

[EmpireOfTheClouds]

As you said it was never planned to be cinematic universe, I think originally Snyder was just planning to make your standard standalone Superman trilogy, but that got turned into the "five movie arc" as Warner wanted their own "MCU but with DC characters", I personally wouldn't have minded a five movie arc as long as it was planned, like the Lord of the Rings its a three movie long arc, it tells a story it has an end and thats it no endless sequels and shit, but maybe thats just me

Because LOTR is based on a series of beloved books, which there are three of, so naturally it got three movies.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

Because LOTR is based on a series of beloved books, which there are three of, so naturally it got three movies.

my point was that I just wanted a storyline with a clear beggining and an ending, not endless sequels that span decades and will continue to come out till the end of time like the MCU is doing, but who am I kidding its never gonna happen, everything has to be a franchise now with endless sequels, prequels, spin offs and shit.

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

and now they're using The Flash as bait to undo everything and bringing Keaton and Kilmer in just to sell tickets.

No way they're bringing Kilmer back into this. Have you seen him lately? He looks like his soul has been sucked away from him.

Speaking of casting, why is Billy Crudup being replaced in this film? They're this late in the "DCEU", and they're already doing casting switches?

Also, speaking of The Flash, it's shameful that they're using THE FLASH of all characters for this. No self respecting Flash Fan wants "We have No Way Home at Home" or Time travel. We just want a movie about Barry Allen being a good boi and helping people and getting into kerfuffles with b list villains like Captain Boomerang or Calendar Man along the way, which is what The Flash has always been about.

And for fucks sakes DCEU writers, READ A FUCKING COMIC. Time Travel is seen as a BAD thing in the Flash comics. Every Time Travel themed story in the comics is about how the speedsters should never use it.

Using complex forms of time travel to drive the plot has mostly never ended well. Terminator Genesys tried to do this, and it resulted in a mess of a movie. Terminator 1, Terminator 2 and No Way Home used it as a means to introduce characters.

Then again, they should have taken the No Way Home route and developed Flash before doing this time travel shit.

It doesn't help that Snyder was just put there by Warner Bros since he didn't seem to have intended to make a cinematic universe until he was tasked with it since Warner wanted the same success Marvel had..

Yeah, this is why I have trouble believing Snyder cultists who tell me that it was "always intended to be a universe, before Marvel". It's pretty clear from MOS being a backdoor Nolan movie that it wasn't.

They initially wanted Nolan to head the DCEU after the success of The Dark Knight trilogy, but clearly he had his own agenda at Warner Bros.

Way back before Cracked went off the deep end, they wrote an article about movies basically expecting to get sequels. I think that's why Marvel has had the most success at the universe thing: They lay groundwork for future stuff while still being self contained stories. The DCEU just feels like a long ass story, it never feels like they planned any of this from the start.

Also, Marvel tested the waters before going through with any cinematic universe, which is why after Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk, there were casting switches for War Machine and Hulk. DC was more interested in profits when Mos and BvS came out, as a result of trying to pick up the pace with the MCU.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

Also, Marvel tested the waters before going through with any cinematic universe, which is why after Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk, there were casting switches for War Machine and Hulk. DC was more interested in profits when Mos and BvS came out, as a result of trying to pick up the pace with the MCU.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but wasn't part of the reason Rhodey was recast because Terrence Howard was becoming obnoxious and demanding even bigger cuts from the movie? Changing him out seemed to primarily be an act of saving money and face on account of Don Cheadle being cheaper and less wacky than Terry and his "1 X 1=2" nonsense.

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but wasn't part of the reason Rhodey was recast because Terrence Howard was becoming obnoxious and demanding even bigger cuts from the movie? Changing him out seemed to primarily be an act of saving money and face on account of Don Cheadle being cheaper and less wacky than Terry and his "1 X 1=2" nonsense.

That’s probably true. I just don’t know if Howard would have bailed out of his contract if he did end up still being in the MCU.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

That’s probably true. I just don’t know if Howard would have bailed out of his contract if he did end up still being in the MCU.

Terry outright said he couldn't stand RDJ, so I’m not sure if even having a MCU star contract would be enough to keep him in the franchise, and they needed a reliable actor for War Machine considering he was a major supporting hero for a Primary Avenger.

 

[God of Nothing]

Terry outright said he couldn't stand RDJ, so I’m not sure if even having a MCU star contract would be enough to keep him in the franchise, and they needed a reliable actor for War Machine considering he was a major supporting hero for a Primary Avenger.

A shame how that ended up.

 

[IamSpechal]

Shit, I really should do a writing 101 course here sometime.

Do it.