The Shin Megami Tensei/Persona Thread

[Dread First]

Unpopular opinion but I've kind of grown tired of Shoji Meguro and find the SMT3 soundtrack is the weakest out of the main games (and throwing in famicom titles for good measure).

I really liked his stuff when I was in my teens but lately ehhh... Not trying to hate, Persona 5 is definitely his best work so far (maybe thanks to additional storage space? Longer compositions really help him I feel).

Still like his work on Digital Devil Saga and Maken X a lot. He has such a unique guitar sound, I always know its him playing.

I mean... I agree to an extent, but Shoji Meguro absolutely fucking outdid himself on the Strange Journey OST.

I absolutely adore Shoji Meguro when he's not being forced to compose ear-friendly J-Pop and J-Rock melodies. Strange Journey to me is his best work because this is in such stark contrast to the stuff he normally makes.

 

[Rootbeer]

I recently picked up the SMT: Nocturne remake. Having come from playing Persona 4 and 5, I feel like I have to be super vaccinated to understand the systems compared to those. Any practical advice?

I can give a few more tips as well as clear up a few misconceptions that others have given.

Spoiler: Nocturne Tips

1) "Use buffs retard"

2) Contrary to what many people say, feel free to fuse away the Pixie/High Pixie that is your initial partner, just don't dismiss the demon she is fused into. the end game thing she is involved with only checks if she is in the fusion line that the current demon came from. (The demon she is a part of will always be in the first slot of your party).

3) As others have said Luck is completely worthless, I would also include Agility in that to a certain extent. Character level has a far larger impact on hit/dodge/crit rate than Agility, the more your character levels up, the lower impact Agility has (a madman wrote the calculations for this game). For instance, at Level 50 you would need 13 additional points of agility from where your current number is for it to have an impact on calculations. The only useful thing for Agility is to determine order for your team. (You generally want to have a fast healer that can get rid of status effects to act first, if they're immune to mind moves even better).

4) Magic is good early game, and really bad when compared to physical late game. A few magic skills are good to have in your kit just to kill random encounters and for some bosses that resist physical. The reason magic is bad is not really because of mana pool issues but the way magic damage is calculated in Nocturne (it caps unlike physical). In addition physical eventually gets Charge as well as Pierce which is broken as hell and magic has no such equivalent.

5) Do not level up any stat past 30. There is an endgame Magatama that gives +10 to every stat.

6) I don't know how much you know about the story, but if you want to fight every available boss be sure to fully complete the entire Labyrinth of Amala before entering the final dungeon (it will be obvious to you what the final dungeon is when you get there).

7) Cover your bases with the demons in your party. Absorb/reflect will instantly end the enemy/your turn even if another demon was weak to that move. So if one of your demon's is weak to a move you (generally) should have another that nulls (or better yet absorbs/reflects) that move to cancel out the press turns the enemy gets. Arahabaki is an absolute god for certain fights because of this.

8 ) If you even think a battle is broken or you're supposed to lose it, nope that's Nocturne baby, keep at it.

Have fun with it! I wish I could experience it again for the first time.

 

[Megaroad 2012]

I mean... I agree to an extent, but Shoji Meguro absolutely fucking outdid himself on the Strange Journey OST.

I absolutely adore Shoji Meguro when he's not being forced to compose ear-friendly J-Pop and J-Rock melodies. Strange Journey to me is his best work because this is in such stark contrast to the stuff he normally makes.

I... completely forgot about Strange Journey. I played that in Iraq and some of the stuff in that game really hit home at that time.

Strange Journey's ost is not easily listening by itself but man in game its creepy as fuck. Really sets the tone perfectly.

One other thing about Shoji is he has the unique little things he does in his music. Like a lot of best fight songs has a moment that feels heroic. Even SJ has it in its battle theme (48 seconds in).

58 seconds into this one.

 

[Super Sad Smile]

I recently picked up the SMT: Nocturne remake. Having come from playing Persona 4 and 5, I feel like I have to be super vaccinated to understand the systems compared to those. Any practical advice?

One thing about press turn vs once more from P4 onwards that doesn't get mentioned enough is how misses/nulls/reflects/drains work. If you miss/null/etc in nocturne, the miss takes priority so you lose 2 icons regardless if any of the other hits targeted a weakness or not.

I spammed multi target moves in persona games since it's often mp efficient, but tried to always have at least 1 single target spell in nocturne because of how important losing a turn is in mid-game.

Also random questions demons give you need to be answered depending on the area (I think). For example, the area where Yosuga resides, you should use strength/darwinist answers since that's the mentality of that city.

 

[Dread First]

I... completely forgot about Strange Journey. I played that in Iraq and some of the stuff in that game really hit home at that time.

Strange Journey's ost is not easily listening by itself but man in game its creepy as fuck. Really sets the tone perfectly.

One other thing about Shoji is he has the unique little things he does in his music. Like a lot of best fight songs has a moment that feels heroic. Even SJ has it in its battle theme (48 seconds in).

58 seconds into this one.

Funnily enough, my primary exposure to Strange Journey was my absolute frustration and disillusionment with the Persona Q games. I've never played an Etrian Odyssey game before, but I've always been fascinated by the idea of playing a first-person MegaTen game that's you know... actually modernised to an extent?

The problem I had was the literal inverse of the problem that I had with SMT1+2. Graphically and mechanically, the game is 100% acceptable and actually quite pleasant at times. Hell, I actually adore the art style because I feel like the Hashino Persona characters translate quite well to the chibi/anime-style that Etrian Odyssey strives for. Story-wise though? The game felt more like hackneyed fan fiction. I like the idea of Minato and Yuu interacting more than I like the actual execution that Atlus keeps trying and failing at.

One of my IRL friends who's also equally autistic about MegaTen as I am suggested that I try out Strange Journey on the DS since I used to own an R4 flash cartridge. I went along with that, and honestly my dude? Strange Journey was so much more fulfilling. Unfortunately, I left my R4 on the bus one day because it fell out of my backpack so I had to order a new one. Needless to say... I kinda don't feel like going through that intense rollercoaster again since I actually managed to get up to Mem Aleph and losing that flash cart pissed me off because that was months of progress just flushed down the drain.

 

[Billy_Sama]

SMT Strange Journey was the first SMT game I played and even though I was unprepared for a SMT game. I struggled at but I did appreciate the atmosphere and tone of the game and liked the idea of sectors based on ills of humanity like the Costco from Hell.

 

[Dread First]

SMT Strange Journey was the first SMT game I played and even though I was unprepared for a SMT game. I struggled at but I did appreciate the atmosphere and tone of the game and liked the idea of sectors based on ills of humanity like the Costco from Hell.

This might sound confusing to say, but hear me out: I wholeheartedly believe that Strange Journey and SMT4 make a much better duology of games than SMT4 and SMT4 Apocalypse.

Strange Journey and vanilla SMT4 both feel like they were trying to accomplish the same thing: they're both trying to pay homage to past SMT games in their own ways. SMT4 is riddled to the brim with references to SMT1, SMT2, and even Strange Journey in its story (i.e. the gauntlets are basically COMPs with a touch-screen, no visor, and no magnetite costs, ICBMs were fired at Tokyo, plus the Demonica and Mem-Aleph statues actually exist in this universe), but mechanically, it's very similar to Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga as opposed to SMT1+2.

Strange Journey on the other hand is almost entirely original in terms of storytelling and characters, but mechanically? It's almost beat-for-beat like the original SMT games on the Super Famicom, right down to the Demonica being an advanced COMP, Magic being a rubbish stat for Space Marine, and of course: first person dungeon crawling with no press-turn system. I'll be honest here: I fucking hated Mastema for going into the Schwarzwelt and telling nothing but lies, but I absolutely adored him as a Chaos villain infinitely more than I could tolerate Merkabah's blathering about "filth" and the "unclean" in SMT4. Ancient of Days would've made for a better final boss than Merkabah, just saying.

You know what would be really fucking cool? If Atlus ever decided to remake SMT1+2 with the Strange Journey engine.

 

[Wintersun]

So Matador basically wiped the floor with me. I've been reading up on advice, seems like I need a bunch of demons that absorb force damage, but nothing I find tells me where to get those or how to fuse them, if I can. Any tips?

 

[Dread First]

So Matador basically wiped the floor with me. I've been reading up on advice, seems like I need a bunch of demons that absorb force damage, but nothing I find tells me where to get those or how to fuse them, if I can. Any tips?

I'm not 100% sure if the Nocturne HD Remaster has this option, but SMT4 allows you to automatically fuse demons that you have in your compendium alongside demons in your stock (the appropriate compendium fee gets deducted automatically). Perhaps there's an option there?

Did you remember to "use buffs, retard?" Remember: Sukukaja and Sukunda are equally invaluable during the Matador fight. Sukukaja boosts your entire party's AGL so that you can keep up with boosted Matador and Sukunda removes a Sukukaja stack from Matador, so you can outspeed him. You cannot under any circumstances get rid of Sukukaja and/or Sukunda.

 

[Wintersun]

I'm not 100% sure if the Nocturne HD Remaster has this option, but SMT4 allows you to automatically fuse demons that you have in your compendium alongside demons in your stock (the appropriate compendium fee gets deducted automatically). Perhaps there's an option there?

Did you remember to "use buffs, retard?" Remember: Sukukaja and Sukunda are equally invaluable during the Matador fight. Sukukaja boosts your entire party's AGL so that you can keep up with boosted Matador and Sukunda removes a Sukukaja stack from Matador, so you can outspeed him. You cannot under any circumstances get rid of Sukukaja and/or Sukunda.

I tried using buffs but he wiped out half my party in a single move, which he took first and twice.

 

[Dread First]

I tried using buffs but he wiped out half my party in a single move, which he took first and twice.

Okay, perhaps @Rootbeer might disagree with the advice that I'm about to give, but this is generally what I do with the Matador fight. Mind you, Rootbeer's the Nocturne expert (I'm sadly an SMT4 casul) so I'll defer to his opinion if he has any corrections he wants to make.

• To reiterate what I said before: Sukunda is literally the most important spell in the entire fight. Matador will automatically Dekunda (remove all debuffs) if he's hit with any debuff spell that isn't Sukunda (I think Fog Breath might also work too, but I can't recall correctly). You need to lower his agility every time he casts Red Capote.
  
  
• As far as what buffs you should use on your party, Sukukaja is (again) absolutely non-negotiable. I know I'm repeating myself here, but Matador's entire gimmick is raising his Agility so that he can constantly dodge your attacks while his will connect without fail. I generally don't use buffs like Tarukaja/Makakaja because Matador's Taunt is fairly easy to play around if you have an opening to use the next move I want to talk about.
  
  
• If he hits you with Taunt (+2 ATK/-2 DEF), having a demon with Dekunda will negate the defense debuff while retaining full access to the attack buff that Taunt gives you (at least that's how it works in SMT4; I'm assuming it works that way in Nocturne because that's how I've always played it). Let's just say that a +2 ATK boost to Demi-Fiend and all your physical demons will definitely be much appreciated.
  
  
• The Hifumi Magatama grants +4 Agility and nullifies all Force damage that Demi-Fiend takes. If you have 4000 Macca (or 12,000 if you're playing on hard mode), you can buy it at the junk shop in Ginza. Though with that in mind, I forget if you need to actually beat Matador in order to actually get that Magatama in the first place.

 

[Rootbeer]

Okay, perhaps @Rootbeer might disagree with the advice that I'm about to give, but this is generally what I do with the Matador fight. Mind you, Rootbeer's the Nocturne expert (I'm sadly an SMT4 casul) so I'll defer to his opinion if he has any corrections he wants to make.

Only a few!

Spoiler: Spoilered for length

1) Matador has one of the most aggressive buff scripts in the game (I'm really struggling to think of a boss more aggressive in this regard that's not part of it's normal attack pattern) so he likes to Dekunda if his stats are lowered too much.

2) In Nocturne stats can go up to +4 and down to -4, with 0 being normal. Red Capote raises his Hit/Dodge to +4. He will start to either cast Red Capote again or Dekunda(if you lowered any other stat) when you reduce his Hit/Dodge to less than +1.
So a Fog Breath + Sukunda or Sukunda 3x will be safe (mostly, sometimes he's even more aggressive and casts it at +2 but that's very rare in my experience)

3) Even when he's only at +1 he still too dodgy to hit reliably imo. So your own Sukukaja is helpful (Aeros in Rags Jewelry in Ginza has this naturally I believe). He also does not have Dekaja so he can't remove the buffs you give to yourself.

4) The Taunt part of the fight is just a DPS race, there are no demons that learn Dekunda naturally at this point in the game so just go for the face when he enters his final stage. A few Rakukajas earlier in the fight can help with this.

5) If you're really, really struggling you can grind to level 18 and get Uzumae. She's a null force demon who also learns media, (Inugami also learns media through level up but he is force weak) she alone can carry this fight.

6) And I would agree Hifumi is basically necessary for this fight assuming you're not overleveled. You can actually buy it right now from the Manikin shop in this area (across from the save point). It also gives you the incredible Tornado spell which will be useful for well into the mid-game.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

I recently picked up the SMT: Nocturne remake. Having come from playing Persona 4 and 5, I feel like I have to be super vaccinated to understand the systems compared to those. Any practical advice?

Buff evasion, get Fog Breath on the Demifiend, hit weaknesses(anything you recognize from Persona 4 or 5 has the same weakness), keep a healer with buffs and debuffs. Do all this and you can reject one more god.

Never let skills mutate. It's rarely worth it.

 

[gaystoner]

I tried using buffs but he wiped out half my party in a single move, which he took first and twice.

Welcome to Shin Megami Tensei where bosses fuck your life up before you even get a turn.

 

[PuffyGroundCloud]

Never forget Mot turn bullshit

 

[Wintersun]

Never forget Mot turn bullshit

Holy fucking dogshit what have I gotten myself into

 

[PuffyGroundCloud]

Holy fucking dogshit what have I gotten myself into

"Hrmm" *Coffin Sound* Beast eye "Hrmm" *Coffin Sound* Beast eye "Hrmm" *Coffin Sound* Beast eye
repeat until sweet Megidoalon save you

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Never forget Mot turn bullshit

This was fixed in the remake and was a rare glitch in the original. RIP Mot's drama.

 

[Dread First]

Holy fucking dogshit what have I gotten myself into

Two things:

1) Most of the Nocturne memes happen on Hard mode. Mot is still a bullshit fight in Nocturne either way, but it's noticeably less shit in Normal (or even Merciful) difficulty. I can only imagine that since you're not complaining about inescapable encounters, you're not playing Hard mode.

2) You bought The Dark Souls of turn-based RPGs(tm)

 

[Wintersun]

Two things:

1) Most of the Nocturne memes happen on Hard mode. Mot is still a bullshit fight in Nocturne either way, but it's noticeably less shit in Normal (or even Merciful) difficulty. I can only imagine that since you're not complaining about inescapable encounters, you're not playing Hard mode.

2) You bought The Dark Souls of turn-based RPGs(tm)

I was told that Nocturne was the hardest thing to ever exist in the series, to the point it was bullshit. I want that experience, because if I can handle this meme-tier bullshit I can handle the rest of the series. Of course I'm playing on hard.

To the Dark Souls™ comparison, Dark Souls is so much simpler than this game in my autistic mind, because you can build reflexes to any boss that fucks you enough, but this game is all about knowing exactly what to expect at any time at all and managing resources near exactly.

tl;dr it's what I want in a Jap RPG and I love the setting, and if I master it I'll play the other games when I get the time.