The Square Enix Griefing Thread

[X Prime]

Hahaha... I mean I guess if you think "you kill God" is a complex story instead of really overdone.

You will absolutely not find anyone who mocks the shit you just described harder than me.

That's why I said relatively. I was kind of struggling to find a word to describe what I mean, maybe "non-edgy"?

 

[Psyduck]

I still have no idea what an NFT even is

Stranger of Paradise to hit Steam next month if anyone's interested?

Waiting for a Complete Edition of it, loved the shit out of the demo and i havent bought it yet just cause i wanted the full thing

I don't get why people are so hung up on them doing something different for Final Fantasy. Every game is different in some way, and they never stuck to one system. They've already done everything from turn based, to ATB, to semi-real time with pause. Them changing things up again gameplay wise is what I'm least worried about them doing, as long as they aren't doing FFXV again.

Love my turn based games as much as any other jrpg fag out there, but i find myself using the fast forward option in battles if its available. I just dont have enough time to deal with that anymore, so i dont really mind FF16's more action oriented gameplay.

...That said, and while i did like FF15, goddamn was that battle system a bore. One of the "toughest" optional battles in the game was reduced to hold O and spam potions, and that simplicity is fucking heresy in a Final Fantasy

 

[TVB]

I still have no idea what an NFT even is

Based

 

[Cantercoin]

A | https://www.vg247.com/forspoken-may-have-had-a-budget-of-over-100000000

Do any of the higher ups at squeeinx actually look at the games they publish or develop?

 

[SiccDicc]

A | https://www.vg247.com/forspoken-may-have-had-a-budget-of-over-100000000
View attachment 4804834
Do any of the higher ups at squeeinx actually look at the games they publish or develop?

This is revenge for Sleeping Dogs.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I thought all a game needed to be a Dragon Quest was copy/paste Dragon Ball designs

Also regarding Forspoken: Just a reminder that FF: The Spirits Within which basically tanked Squaresoft had a budget of $137,000,000

 

[whatever I feel like]

I thought all a game needed to be a Dragon Quest was copy/paste Dragon Ball designs

Blue Dragon Quest??

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

If anybody played FFX-2, regardless of how you feel about the game otherwise, you know it had a great combat system. It's quick for a turn-based game, something like an evolved version of that should have become the standard for the genre.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

A | https://www.vg247.com/forspoken-may-have-had-a-budget-of-over-100000000
View attachment 4804834
Do any of the higher ups at squeeinx actually look at the games they publish or develop?

Also regarding Forspoken: Just a reminder that FF: The Spirits Within which basically tanked Squaresoft had a budget of $137,000,000

Ok, I have to ask - between these and however much of a money pit the Avengers was, is Square just the Yakuza laundering money or are they actually just that retarded outside maybe Yoshi-P?

If anybody played FFX-2, regardless of how you feel about the game otherwise, you know it had a great combat system. It's quick for a turn-based game, something like an evolved version of that should have become the standard for the genre.

I have something of a soft spot for X-2. Is it a good game, that’s honestly debatable, but once you figure out it’s quirks it plays fine.

Granted I’m one of the few people who liked the FF13 series, so my taste is admittedly garbage.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Ok, I have to ask - between these and however much of a money pit the Avengers was, is Square just the Yakuza laundering money or are they actually just that retarded outside maybe Yoshi-P?

The ESG money must have been in the billions, or SE writing off those games as financial losses must be a massive money windfall, somehow.

And wouldn't Babylon's Fall also fall into that list, given that the game was shut down after less than a year?

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

And wouldn't Babylon's Fall also fall into that list, given that the game was shut down after less than a year?

No joke, I literally forgot that game even existed, nevermind that Square were the ones behind it - honestly fitting, considering it’s already shuttered…

 

[The Zekenator]

Also regarding Forspoken: Just a reminder that FF: The Spirits Within which basically tanked Squaresoft had a budget of $137,000,000

To be completely fair inflation makes that number far bigger.

According to an inflation calculator I quickly dug up 137M back in 2001 would have been around 244,165,165.86 USD today. So it is a lot less comparable when we account for inflation.

Still Forspoken flopping this hard is funny.

Ok, I have to ask - between these and however much of a money pit the Avengers was, is Square just the Yakuza laundering money or are they actually just that retarded outside maybe Yoshi-P?

They're retarded, SE takes too long to make things and they spend too much so they need stupid high sales figures to make a reasonable ROI. SE goes too big and loses hard far more times then they win. If they didn't have the brand power of some of the biggest franchises around they would have likely bankrupt awhile ago.

FFXIV taking an extra six months to release a major patch, and then six more months to release their latest expansion against their usual target windows is fucking early compared to how most SE productions are run. Otherwise FFXIV is one of the few SE projects that is actually mostly on time with its deadlines.

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

as long as they aren't doing FFXV again.

The party dynamic was the one good part about xv and this won't even have that.

 

[whatever I feel like]

Ok, I have to ask - between these and however much of a money pit the Avengers was, is Square just the Yakuza laundering money or are they actually just that retarded outside maybe Yoshi-P?

No, thats either Konami or Namco, I forget which, its one of the arcade ones.

The ESG money must have been in the billions, or SE writing off those games as financial losses must be a massive money windfall, somehow.

And wouldn't Babylon's Fall also fall into that list, given that the game was shut down after less than a year?

BF won't get criticized because its Japanese, only western games that lose money get singled out for it in their financial statements.

 

[Tarka Dhal]

You will absolutely not find anyone who mocks the shit you just described harder than me.

That's why I said relatively. I was kind of struggling to find a word to describe what I mean, maybe "non-edgy"?

I’d say it’s a lack of pretense that defines a Dragon Quest’s story. It knows what it is, and doesn’t pretend to be anything else. The same is true of its gameplay.

That’s not to say it should never evolve, but the fact that the series has always held on to its roots is its main appeal. Final Fantasy has been reinventing itself since XI, to the extent that it’s hard to define what a Final Fantasy game even is at this point, but with Dragon Quest you always know what to expect. It’s a comforting familiarity.

In contrast - Final Fantasy is less about specific aesthetics or mechanics; it’s more of a feeling. Crystals, Chocobos, and men named Cid do matter, but I think that it’s the presentation that makes Final Fantasy what it is. It’s about big graphics, big story, big set pieces - all pomp and circumstance. Fighting a train as it chases you down the tracks, lush environments, and decadent pre-rendered cutscenes. In this regard XVI is very much a Final Fantasy game.

Still I can’t help but mourn the end of the series as the last true JRPG franchise of its kind. No one else tries to do what Square and FF do, and no one really can. I just hope it turns out alright; FFXV, KH3, VIIR, and Forspoken have all but obliterated my faith in the company.

 

[The Zekenator]

In contrast - Final Fantasy is less about specific aesthetics or mechanics; it’s more of a feeling. Crystals, Chocobos, and men named Cid do matter, but I think that it’s the presentation that makes Final Fantasy what it is. It’s about big graphics, big story, big set pieces - all pomp and circumstance. Fighting a train as it chases you down the tracks, lush environments, and decadent pre-rendered cutscenes. In this regard XVI is very much a Final Fantasy game.

Still I can’t help but mourn the end of the series as the last true JRPG franchise of its kind. No one else tries to do what Square and FF do, and no one really can. I just hope it turns out alright; FFXV, KH3, VIIR, and Forspoken have all but obliterated my faith in the company.

Spoiler: Shilling other JRPG series some people might not care about.

I would encourage you try looking into the Trails/Kieski series if you want something close to that, I won't call it the exact same thing as older FF, but I feel it does lean into what you're talking about for just on a more budget scale because Trails only just went into using being a full 3D game about 10 years ago and it really does show even to this day.

I think outside of graphical fidelity being a little jank, in an endearing low budget sort of way imo, you can find that big story and set pieces feel there. Hell I'd almost say I think it does that better because it has a constant flowing narrative and a good amount of worldbuilding. So things come back a lot and it feels like your investment pays off if you can get invested. You can even read newspapers in some games that can hint at things going on in the background that come up later on. While at the same time the plot is willing to introduce new things as the story goes instead of heavily leaning onto older stuff. You don't even really meet the first arc's characters again until four games later after sky final chapter ends, and the third game completely changes the main characters in the narrative while the old main characters become secondary ones.

It is a big series, but I'd say you can at least have a lot of fun with Sky 1 and 2 before determining if the series is worth continuing to its further developments and later arcs.

I personally got more into Sky 1 then most FF games, but I'm someone who can bare with slow starts and I would say that honestly Sky 1 has a notably slower start than the majority of FFs beginnings. It is a slow burn, but I greatly enjoyed my time in the end and didn't feel like it was wasted on nothing. I got the sequel immediately after the twist at the end of the first game that feel nicely set up and fit the characters at the time.

I'd say FF has changed its gameplay in a handful of ways since at least 8. Junction and drawing and all that shit was a pretty big change up to how you deal with 8 as a game vs other FFs at the time. 10 has its own whole thing with how turns work and how it tries to make every party member have a specific gimmick to respond to the enemies like Wakka being able to hit flying enemies or Auron going through armor. They went beyond just having a monk, a samurai, and a summoner and tried to make them have a specific gimmick to handle encounters to encourage you to use everyone. They specifically made the game so each character can contribute in a specific way, or tried to anyway. Plus the sphere grid was kind of a weird system at the time.

Job system games I also think are notably different games from non-job system games in terms of how character feel works when everyone can be anything, but that depends on your definition of changing itself as they are still turn based games at their core.

FF has changed itself many times even before it stopped trying to be a turn based series. FF12 even feels like it might as well be turn based with how its combat plays out in practice, it just lets you skip mashing the attack action if that's what you want to do anyway. Same with FF13 in some ways too. Only 11, 14, and 15 really feels like it isn't a turn based game at all.

 

[Tarka Dhal]

I would encourage you try looking into the Trails/Kieski series

I’ve been aware of the Trails series for a while now, and I’ve never been able to bring myself to play it. Sky looked a bit janky and unimpressive, and one of the most touted aspects - the sheer amount of dialogue - sounded more overwhelming than anything else, so I skipped out on it. Not to mention I really can’t bring myself to play multiple JRPGs to get a complete story.

I later considered picking up Cold Steel when it came out, but was met with a reaction of ‘No, you have to play all the games to appreciate the series’. To which my response was largely ‘Fuck you, buddy. Have some respect for my time’.

When I finally did get to try the series through the demo for Cold Steel 3, I hated it. I hated the generic characters, I hated the anime dialogue, I hated the school setting, I hated how the protagonist was wanked off as the most important man in the world.

Still, if you insist that series is worth it, I’ll keep Trails in the Sky in mind the next time I’m looking for a JRPG.

I'd say FF has changed its gameplay in a handful of ways since at least 8. Junction and drawing and all that shit was a pretty big change up to how you deal with 8 as a game vs other FFs at the time.

It has always tried something a bit different with each entry, but I do feel that it was after X that they really started to experiment. Drawing and Junctioning in VIII was certainly original, but the Guardian Forces felt like an expansion of VI’s Espers crossed with the ability to readily swap character roles afforded by VII’s Materia or III and V’s Jobs.

I actually think that the games that use the Job system aren’t all that different from those that don’t. Most Final Fantasies have offered up some fairly substantial means of customising your characters - with many allowing you to completely redefine them, sometimes at a whim. Jobs certainly define the Tactics and Bravely Default series, but their spirit is present in a lot of mainline games.

X did put a greater focus on the particular strengths of each party member, but I wouldn’t call that a big change, and the turn system basically behaved like a turned based ATB.

But afterwards you get things like an MMO as a mainline entry, an offline MMO where you automate your party’s actions, a game that with even more automation that prioritises macro strategy over micro actions, another MMO, an action RPG spinoff rebranded as a mainline entry, and an outright action game. You can still see the connections, like how Paradigms are basically Dresspheres crossed with Gambits, but the overall gameplay experience becomes very different.

 

[The Zekenator]

Still, if you insist that series is worth it, I’ll keep Trails in the Sky in mind the next time I’m looking for a JRPG.

Based on your assessment of Cold Steel 3, I am almost positive you'll likely prefer Sky and maybe the Azure duology but Cold Steel might be a little too typical (modern) anime for you. Sky 1 and to an extent 2 a little more down to earth fantasy and most of the playable characters are generally quite small and mostly irrelevant at the start outside of their own personal bubble in the grand scheme of things. It isn't quite as on the nose about your importance as the MC of CS3. Cold Steels protagonist kind of has a bunch of development from the first two games to back him up as being important which makes no sense without the past games' knowledge.

I personally played Cold Steel 1 and 2 first before Sky, and I liked Sky a little bit more though I liked CS well enough for different reasons as far as plot and writing styles. Their are some relevant tie-ins if you don't play in order, but that doesn't really matter until 3 when they start bringing all three major arcs together. That's when you'd really ideally want to play all of them, but I think Sky 1-3 is fine by itself without a ton of sequel baiting and hooks getting in the way of a satisfactory ending.

I personally feel most JRPG games have "anime" dialogue, as I've been into anime shit for decades so I just feel most JRPGs are just anime from experience though Cold Steel leans more into some more modern anime stuff that is "controversial" to say the least. Cold Steel's school setting is actually cool because it uses the setting as sort of a cultural microcosm of the nation it takes place in. It is like a low stakes culture clash across its cast which actually uses the school setting in a way that feels novel as a vehicle for a coming of age story and isn't just some total "relive my high school days where I get all the women" fantasy stuff like say Persona feels like a lot of the time.

Still Sky is a far more traditional adventure story and is relatively more straight forward, and as a bonus it doesn't involve killing God or something comparable, so that's cool.

I hope you enjoy it if you try it out.

It has always tried something a bit different with each entry, but I do feel that it was after X that they really started to experiment. Drawing and Junctioning in VIII was certainly original, but the Guardian Forces felt like an expansion of VI’s Espers crossed with the ability to readily swap character roles afforded by VII’s Materia or III and V’s Jobs.

I actually think that the games that use the Job system aren’t all that different from those that don’t. Most Final Fantasies have offered up some fairly substantial means of customising your characters - with many allowing you to completely redefine them, sometimes at a whim. Jobs certainly define the Tactics and Bravely Default series, but their spirit is present in a lot of mainline games.

X did put a greater focus on the particular strengths of each party member, but I wouldn’t call that a big change, and the turn system basically behaved like a turned based ATB.

But afterwards you get things like an MMO as a mainline entry, an offline MMO where you automate your party’s actions, a game that with even more automation that prioritises macro strategy over micro actions, another MMO, an action RPG spinoff rebranded as a mainline entry, and an outright action game. You can still see the connections, like how Paradigms are basically Dresspheres crossed with Gambits, but the overall gameplay experience becomes very different.

I personally feel like most FF experiments make things stark enough to be different, it is why the argument of which one the best one is so hot because the games differ in key aspects and mechanics. Some people love the absolute hell out of jank games like FF8 or FF12 and could find the more "simple" games like FF9 or FF4 too boring by comparison.

For me job games differ for one reason, character feel. The fact Kain is a Dragoon, Rydia is a Summoner, and Cecil is a Paladin matters on some level to who they are and that is unchangeable. Same with Zidane being a Thief, Steiner being a knight, and Garnet/Dagger being a white mage. It defines themselves as part of a party and a cast because you can't just swap stuff around in gameplay to the point where their character identity is muddled entirely. Though I know in say FF7 for example those roles are really muddied due to how Materia works, and to an extent the same applies to FF6 even with its character specific actions like Sabin's blitzes or Terra's trance with Espers.

When Bartz can just be anything it makes him feel a little more faceless in the actual gameplay which I feel is a shame. Ramza can just be anything so the fact he's canonically a squire kind of doesn't matter as much even if I love Ramza as a character. It makes characters feel too same-y outside of cutscenes when everyone can be anything, and it also changes gameplay because you can eventually find methods to just stack up good jobs tend to occur (especially in Bravely) which can kind of makes combat feel bad when things are too same-y. It was something I actually appreciated in most of FF13's run time when each character was stuck with 3 of the 6 paradigms (until they fucked that up at the end) so your party of choice was some combination of those paradigms and you choose which roles you wanted more or less of.

While say Auron and Wakka having a set toolkit for specific uses makes them stand out more in story and in gameplay. I personally find job systems feel a lot different than non-job systems for the reason I explained, but I suppose we can agree to disagree. I just want to explain what I meant.

Maybe I'm just the type to be too "in the weeds" with mechanical changes, but to me the changes across many FF titles to me are stark even if they aren't as stark as say FF15 and the two MMOs vs everything else.

The thing with current FF vs PS2 and older FF that might I think presents these changes more starkly is more just Square Enix can't just release a good game, they need to release the biggest stupidly overly produced game ever fathomed by humankind every single release. So you just get "the next big" fantasy every 5-10 years depending on how hell the production cycle is.

 

[Tarka Dhal]

I hope you enjoy it if you try it out.

Thanks, I hope so too.

When Bartz can just be anything it makes him feel a little more faceless in the actual gameplay which I feel is a shame.

I do agree that there is a distinction is how characters feel in games where you are afforded a great deal of control over their abilities, and it does serve to weaken them as you lose that connection between gameplay and writing. Granted I find this less bothersome in say, V compared to VII, as you can’t freely switch characters in their entirety.

I built my Bartz as a rogue and Galuf as a punch wizard, because I felt that those jobs best suited them. In contrast I made Leena a physical attacker and Faris a support mage, just to vary things up. But whether or not their jobs suited their characters, they were still the roles I had built them into over the course of the game. I couldn’t just press a button to swap around their Materia or GFs - so they still had an identity.

The thing with current FF vs PS2 and older FF that might I think presents these changes more starkly is more just Square Enix can't just release a good game, they need to release the biggest stupidly overly produced game ever fathomed by humankind every single release.

Unfortunately this seems to be an industry-wide problem, as budgets keep getting bigger and bigger. I always wonder why no one has made a game on par with PS1 era titles. Indies can’t do it, but even AA titles don’t have a fraction of the production values apparent in 20+ year old games. Surely there’s still an audience for these games?

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

According to an inflation calculator I quickly dug up 137M back in 2001 would have been around 244,165,165.86 USD today. So it is a lot less comparable when we account for inflation.

Spirits Within also made 80,000,000 or there abouts in the box office.

I'd like to know exactly how much Forspoken has made.