The Tomboy Question(s)

[Android raptor]

Got to ask but are tomboys actually a thing?

Because I've seen a lot of girls who are into shit like Star Wars,sports,video games,anime and bugs while also being interested in typical girl shit like jewelry and makeup.

Might just be a personal thing but from what I've observed simply liking guy things doesn't make one a tomboy

I mean, I exist and like bugs and anime and shit and am not really into makeup or jewelry and shit. Unfortunately I feel like most boyish girls like me around me age or younger have trooned out.

I absolutely disagree. Sometimes they were just confused and end up straight. Stop demanding that people become homosexual.

I'm not demanding anyone become gay. Just pointing out not all tomboys are straight, and lots of boyish girls do turn out to be gay. Nothing wrong if they aren't, but not all tomboys are into dudes.

I'm surprised by how hard all of you successively ran @Android raptor's wallet. That said, I always figured it a given that there's some overlap between being a dyke and being a tomboy... but now that I think about it, I wouldn't actually call a dyke a tomboy-- I'd call them a dyke because they're a dyke. My impression of tomboys is that there's a distinct boyishness that nonetheless doesn't even mostly obscure their femininity, in contrast to dykes who are actively trying to snuff out said femininity as some means of compensation-- the only place they fail is in their still having their female machinery.

Yeah the idea that tomboys have to still be acceptably girly is bullshit and mostly peddled by horny dudes and Karens mad their daughters still arent interested in boy or makeup at 14. Tomboys are girls who are boyish. That's it.

Damn dudes always trying to tell women how categories of female identity work, be it troons or dudes here.

Tomboy shit seems fine, and maybe it actually works out long term for some guys out there to date 'em. Just..man, I'd highly advise against dating one that shares your favorite male-centric interests with you. You'll think it's cool at first until reality sets in. You're still dealing with a woman, tomboy or not, and she's gonna insist on invading what was once your happy place (regardless of doing it alone or with the guys). To her, sharing that interest means she's going to see any time spent on it as "together time" now. Congrats, you've lost your "you time" and now get to spend it with someone who will insist they can keep up with you (possibly even believing it) while almost certainly never being able to do so (ugly truth of life, ladies). It will ruin the relationship in a hurry or make you miserable for life.

I guess a greater lesson in general here is be fucking careful what interests you share with your significant other. You do not want to end up doing literally everything together.

I have a feeling girls being tomboys isnt the reason your relationships have failed.

 

[CheezzyMach]

I mean, I exist and like bugs and anime and shit and am not really into makeup or jewelry and shit. Unfortunately I feel like most boyish girls like me around me age or younger have trooned out.

I'm not demanding anyone become gay. Just pointing out not all tomboys are straight, and lots of boyish girls do turn out to be gay. Nothing wrong if they aren't, but not all tomboys are into dudes.

Yeah the idea that tomboys have to still be acceptably girly is bullshit and mostly peddled by horny dudes and Karens mad their daughters still arent interested in boy or makeup at 14. Tomboys are girls who are boyish. That's it.

Damn dudes always trying to tell women how categories of female identity work, be it troons or dudes here.

Well that's why I was asking because a lot of people seem to define tomboy as ether:

girl who has a few masculine interests but still likes girly stuff

or

girl who has short hair and/or athletic build

And IDK it just felt iffy to me is all.

 

[Android raptor]

Well that's why I was asking because a lot of people seem to define tomboy as ether:

girl who has a few masculine interests but still likes girly stuff

or

girl who has short hair and/or athletic build

And IDK it just felt iffy to me is all.

Yeah it's always felt iffy to me too, especially since I'm not girly but I'm not athletic either. I feel like trying to pigeonhole girls and micromanage what counts as a tomboy is a factor in them trooning out.

I feel like if you're overall more boyish than girly and a girl, you count as a tomboy. You don't have to like sports or a certain sexuality or whatever, it's about the overall package not specifics. Nothing wrong with being girly either (something I also had to learn because lol internalized misogyny and getting picked on by feminine girls and women).

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Yeah the idea that tomboys have to still be acceptably girly

I didn't say anything about "acceptable" levels of femininity. The concrete part of what I did describe, however, was intent, which I think is a fine way of looking at matters given that dyke behavior is unilaterally a conscious and deliberate rejection of their femininity in favor of masculine affectations. There is absolutely no argument to be had here-- dykes are point A on the FtM pipeline. They actually hate being women. If you're just boyish without the desire to expel every trace of femininity and acquire a strange pseudo-masculine musk, I reckon you're not a dyke.

In contrast, my understanding of tomboys overall is just that there's a distinct impression left by their interest in things generally considered masculine and/or they behave in a way more amenable and comradely to men in casual settings but there is no active rejection of their femininity.

 

[Android raptor]

I didn't say anything about "acceptable" levels of femininity. The concrete part of what I did describe, however, was intent, which I think is a fine way of looking at matters given that dyke behavior is unilaterally a conscious and deliberate rejection of their femininity in favor of masculine affectations. There is absolutely no argument to be had here-- dykes are point A on the FtM pipeline. If you're just boyish without the desire to expel every trace of femininity and acquire a strange pseudo-masculine musk, I reckon you're not a dyke.

In contrast, my understanding of tomboys overall is just that there's a distinct impression left by their interest in things generally considered masculine and/or they behave in a way more amenable and comradely to men in casual settings but there is no active rejection of their femininity.

I mean, I don't want to chop my tits off and sometimes wear sundresses (mostly because they're the most comfortable thing when the heat index is 100+ degrees and my lazy ass doesn't have to find pants). I'd say that counts as not wanting to expel every single trace of femininity.

Personally I think the reason so many dykes troon out is because they're pigeonholed and even on the left the idea that you can be a masculine woman seems to have disappeared.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Personally I think the reason so many dykes troon out is because they're pigeonholed and even on the left the idea that you can be a masculine woman seems to have disappeared.

I'm virtually certain they are actively trying to be pseudo-males to begin with. They're either still grounded enough in reality to realize they will never be real men, they're nominally comfortable in their sex, or it hasn't yet occurred to them to inflict upon themselves SRS and HRT.

I figure it's more obvious with black women. It's also possible that it takes on a different shape between communities.

 

[Android raptor]

I'm virtually certain they are actively trying to be pseudo-males to begin with. They're either still grounded enough in reality to realize they will never be real men, they're nominally comfortable in their sex, or it hasn't yet occurred to them to inflict upon themselves SRS and HRT.

I figure it's more obvious with black women. It's also possible that it takes on a different shape between communities.

Or they could just prefer to wear short hair and mens clothes because it's cheaper and more comfortable.

Shit, do you have any kind of deeper reasons for not wanting to wear dresses or makeup? Sometimes women just like what they like because thats who they are and theres nothing deeper to it. Women don't have this inherent, instinctual desire to put on makeup or heels or have long hair, that shit is all just down to personality and preference just like it is with men.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Or they could just prefer to wear short hair and mens clothes because it's cheaper and more comfortable.

You're talking past me. I'm not talking about donning clothes and hairstyles reminiscent of masculinity-- we're talking about active masculine affectations. This is the closest thing to the female equivalent of the AGP I can think of.

Women don't just develop pseudo-masculine musks, marginally feminine appearances, and exceedingly aggressive attitudes because they're not conforming to typical female gender norms. You have to put in effort to get to what I'm describing. You wouldn't defend an AGP acting like some bad caricature of a woman on the same grounds, because it's more obvious what the big idea is.

 

[Scale Smerch]

The recent spike in interest is definitely fetish-driven, but it's over a specific variety of fetish. The manga/anime world these days for example classifies a tomboy as any sort of athletic girl with short hair and a love a sports. They are toned, often muscular, and almost always shy and inexperienced with love, which adds a sort of authenticity a lot of guys crave with a passion. It's pretty much become a sort fusion category that crosses over into a lot of different fetish territory so no surprise it's increased in popularity (and given a lot the wrong idea about what constitutes a tomboy).

This compares with actual tomboys which in my experience don't have a similar level of interest, largely because it can be considered an age-related concept now. Most for example, if they saw a pre-teen or teenage girl playing with the boys or enjoying distinctively male hobbies, would have no issue classifying them as tomboys - these girls are not doing girly things and bucking expectations.

While this can lead to some going dyke or trooning out, it's more or less a phase now; as you get older, get more responsibilities, and enter the real world, the distinction fades. The past 40 years or so have made it acceptable (and nigh expected) for girls to do guy things, to enter male dominated spaces, and otherwise break with typical girl behaviour. It's IMO best represented by the evolution of geekdom and its public perception, but women's role in the workplace was what really broke down the barrier and started muddying the tomboy definition. By taking away the stigma for a lot of different societal and cultural things, the term loses a lot its original meaning.

TL;DR: Tomboys are a thing, but now largely for weebs and the parents of girls.

 

[Android raptor]

You're talking past me. I'm not talking about donning clothes and hairstyles reminiscent of masculinity-- we're talking about active masculine affectations. This is the closest thing to the female equivalent of the AGP I can think of.

Women don't just develop pseudo-masculine musks, marginally feminine appearances, and exceedingly aggressive attitudes because they're not conforming to typical female gender norms. You have to put in effort to get to what I'm describing. You wouldn't defend an AGP acting like some bad caricature of a woman on the same grounds, because it's more obvious what the big idea is.

The fuck are you talking about? Some women also prefer masculine fragrances, big whoop. also there are highly feminine women with exceedingly agressive attitudes too, it's more a personality thing than anything else.

The recent spike in interest is definitely fetish-driven, but it's over a specific variety of fetish. The manga/anime world these days for example classifies a tomboy as any sort of athletic girl with short hair and a love a sports. They are toned, often muscular, and almost always shy and inexperienced with love, which adds a sort of authenticity a lot of guys crave with a passion. It's pretty much become a sort fusion category that crosses over into a lot of different fetish territory so no surprise it's increased in popularity (and given a lot the wrong idea about what constitutes a tomboy).

This compares with actual tomboys which in my experience don't have a similar level of interest, largely because it can be considered an age-related concept now. Most for example, if they saw a pre-teen or teenage girl playing with the boys or enjoying distinctively male hobbies, would have no issue classifying them as tomboys - these girls are not doing girly things and bucking expectations.

While this can lead to some going dyke or trooning out, it's more or less a phase now; as you get older, get more responsibilities, and enter the real world, the distinction fades. The past 40 years or so have made it acceptable (and nigh expected) for girls to do guy things, to enter male dominated spaces, and otherwise break with typical girl behaviour. It's IMO best represented by the evolution of geekdom and its public perception, but women's role in the workplace was what really broke down the barrier and started muddying the tomboy definition. By taking away the stigma for a lot of different societal and cultural things, the term loses a lot its original meaning.

TL;DR: Tomboys are a thing, but now largely for weebs and the parents of girls.

Unfortunately there is definitely still often pressure on tomboys to start conforming to gender stereotypes once they start hitting puberty, especially autistic ones. You'd be surprised at the amount of parents and teachers that might tolerate a girl liking star wars and anime at 8, but will bitch her out and say it "isn't appropriate for a girl her age" if she still likes it at 14 (especially if she's not interested in something stereotypically feminine like fashion or makeup).

Ask me how I know.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Sorry but why are there a couple of people that seem to think a tomboy is a girl who is basicly a female soyboy consoomer? I don't think it's playing pokemon outside or playing games that makes a girl a tomboy.

When I think of a tomboy it's the kind of girl that likes outdoorsy stuff, run around, climb trees, roughhouse. A girl that can banter a little and take a punch (though in my experience not usually much talkers in contrast to most other girls).

A girl that's into computer games, board games, and such seems more like a nerdy subtype than a tomboy to me.

---

I remember a couple of years back teaching classes of kids and there was maybe one tomboy every 5 classes of 20 kids. It's always been a kinda uncommon thing but it's not really gone. It's also a young people thing; the older one gets the less likely you think of a woman as a tomboy. I am not convinced tomboys are disappearing. I accepted the premise initially, but aren't we just getting older? And wouldn't tomboys be a type of girls you don't encounter much online in the first place, since even if she's gaming or whatever she's the type of girl to not have voice chat or need to say she is a girl? More of a lurker when on forums.


I dunno. But presuming that it's true that tomboys are dissappearing, I'd point to lgbtq agenda as the culprit. It's the same reason why male affection and physical contact has reduced by a lot, because the assumption of it being gay is so much more common. Women don't face quite the same scorn as men do for homosexuality, but tomboy or not they tend to be more concerned with what people think so it'll have the same effect on not wanting to signal what they're not.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Unfortunately there is definitely still often pressure on tomboys to start conforming to gender stereotypes once they start hitting puberty, especially autistic ones. You'd be surprised at the amount of parents and teachers that might tolerate a girl liking star wars and anime at 8, but will bitch her out and say it "isn't appropriate for a girl her age" if she still likes it at 14 (especially if she's not interested in something stereotypically feminine like fashion or makeup).

Ask me how I know.

In my experience, it's other girls that pressure tomboys to conform once puberty hits.

 

[FEETLOAF]

That's another thing, you really don't respect tomboys

Who the fuck respects women? Even women don't respect women.

 

[Android raptor]

In my experience, it's other girls that pressure tomboys to conform once puberty hits.

Girls and women , yep. Which also is a huge part of what creates internalized misogyny/NLOGs/fakebois, you associate being a typical girl with the people who are picking on you so you want to distance yourself from that.

When I think of a tomboy it's the kind of girl that likes outdoorsy stuff, run around, climb trees, roughhouse. A girl that can banter a little and take a punch (though in my experience not usually much talkers in contrast to most other girls).

I like that shit too. Shocker.

Who the fuck respects women? Even women don't respect women.

And this is the real reason the girl next door won't fuck you

 

[FEETLOAF]

And this is the real reason the girl next door won't fuck you

Stop projecting, incel.

 

[Android raptor]

Stop projecting, incel.

You generally have to respect a woman in order for her to agree to be your romantic partner. Barring misogynistic shithole theocracies and cults where women don't really have a choice of course.

 

[Lemmingwise]

You generally have to respect a woman in order for her to agree to be your romantic partner.

Someone has never met domestic abuse victims.

I like that shit too. Shocker.

Though women might like the same things men like, they won't be men.

Though dykes might like the same things tomboys like, they won't be tomboys.

I get bored of explaining things to autistics, but I suppose someome has to do it. Now for once in your life take a hint and accept that it's different.

 

[FEETLOAF]

You generally have to respect a woman in order for her to agree to be your romantic partner.

Nah.

 

[Lemmingwise]

In my experience, it's other girls that pressure tomboys to conform once puberty hits.

It's true. But I also think it's the puberty itself that changes the behaviour.

 

[Android raptor]

Someone has never met domestic abuse victims.


Though women might like the same things men like, they won't be men.

Though dykes might like the same things tomboys like, they won't be tomboys.

I get bored of explaining things to autistics, but I suppose someome has to do it. Now for once in your life take a hint and accept that it's different.

Accept someone you dislike is a tomboy. Not all tomboys are dykes, but all dykes are a form of tomboy.

Damn y'all as bad as troons with trying to tell women how they should and shouldn't identify. Acting like y'all know more about being a specific type of woman than an actual woman smh

It's true. But I also think it's the puberty itself that changes the behaviour.

Then puberty sure as fuck didn't get that message with me lmao

It's pretty much all because of social pressure.