Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Dr. Meme]

It wouldn't have been possible for you to do this. For one thing, someone would have paid the $10 or whatever and then just leaked the content on /cwc/. Secondly, in pre-Bitcoin days, it was very difficult to accept money anonymously. You might have found yourself the unwilling recipient of more attention and scrutiny than you are comfortable with.

Lastly, and most importantly, all of the most amusing content was released free of charge by Chris on his own YouTube accounts.

So to be honest, and with the greatest of civility intended, I think you are completely taking the piss to try to suggest that you and the rest of the PVCC are somehow our generous benefactors by releasing Chris content free of charge. It's a disgraceful line of bullshit, quite frankly.

No need to get mad over a theoretical situation. They could have made money off of Chris easy, before /cow/ and all the rest.

I think trolling should only be necessary if the lolcows don'tproduce content of their own, but you have to keep in mind these are real people with real emotions, save tyce who's basically a brain dead neo nazi at this point. You can't treat them like they're cartoon characters who respond funny to stressful situations. There are consequences to being trolled by weens on the internet and I don't think it should necessarily happen to every lolcow.

 

[P-Logic]

Snip

I was lying to try and get some information out of Canine. (If anyone from PVCC was currently trolling Chris at that time)

If you read the logs you'll see that I was successful in getting him to confirm that.

 

[HG 400]

lol okay

 

[CatParty]

I was lying to try and get some information out of Canine. (If anyone from PVCC was currently trolling Chris at that time)

If you read the logs you'll see that I was successful in getting him to confirm that.

good cover

 

[P-Logic]

No need to get mad over a theoretical situation. They could have made money off of Chris easy, before /cow/ and all the rest.

I apologise if I came across as "mad". It certainly wasn't my intention. I just disagree that they could have done that.

How, exactly, would they have been able to?

 

[Silver]

I was lying to try and get some information out of Canine. (If anyone from PVCC was currently trolling Chris at that time)

If you read the logs you'll see that I was successful in getting him to confirm that.

Hey buddy, it's okay, we believe you.

 

[P-Logic]

good cover

lol okay

Hey buddy, it's okay, we believe you.

So you really think I had Chris on the hook about something? Haha, ok. I guess I must have some of the greatest hoarded content of all.

 

[Dr. Meme]

I apologise if I came across as "mad". It certainly wasn't my intention. I just disagree that they could have done that.

How, exactly, would they have been able to?

They could have treated it all like an ARG and say it was fake, and then sell merchandise from videos and stuff, and get a large fandom following.

But let's get back on topic mkay

 

[Silver]

So you really think I had Chris on the hook about something? Haha, ok. I guess I must have some of the greatest hoarded content of all.

We're disbelieving your reasons for lying. Not that you were lying.

 

[champthom]

Spoiler

13:12 -!- P-Logic [~Avery@phologisti.con] has joined #sonichu
13:12 < cows2> ulala's favorite webcomic
13:12 < P-Logic> Sup kids
13:12 <~canine> but yeah, i think that once you open one, it starts a session and that session either remains open until you close the whole browser
13:12 <~canine> or maybe until you close all the incognito tabs
13:12 < cows2> gotcha
13:12 <~canine> not sure though
13:12 < cows2> I never worry about that as I am the only one who looks at my computer
13:12 <~canine> yeah, same
13:13 < P-Logic> I am worried the police might inspect mine one day
13:13 <~canine> what would you be doing that that's a problem?
13:13 < cows2> ^
13:13 < P-Logic> Trolling Chris
13:13 < cows2> nigga get out
13:13 < paulguy> I'm pretty sure incognito windows are isolated profiles.
13:13 <~canine> the police don't give a shit about that
13:13 < paulguy> read-only
13:13 < P-Logic> I live in the UK though
13:13 < P-Logic> People get arrested for saying harsh things on Twitter here
13:14 <~canine> paulguy: maybe, but i seem to see some consistency that would only happen if all the incognito windows had one single profile
13:14 < cows2> if anyone is truly worried about the police getting on their files
13:14 <~canine> P-Logic: shit sucks
13:14 < cows2> truecrypt + hidden drive
13:14 < cows2> no one will ever know it is there
13:14 < P-Logic> Yeah I truecrypt all my Chris content and only go to the CWCki via tor
13:14 <~canine> goddamn, that's nuts
13:15 < P-Logic> Well it wouldn't be a serious crime canine
13:15 < P-Logic> The problem is
13:15 < P-Logic> The reaction of the media
13:15 <~canine> that it's a crime at all is crazy
13:15 < cows2> that is some spergy shit P-Logic
13:15 <~canine> what cows2 said
13:15 < cows2> you are doing absolutely nothing but visiting a site
13:16 <~canine> the media here would maybe put it on the 5 o'clock news in some little station in charlottesville
13:16 <~canine> that no one would pay attention to
13:16 < cows2> ^
13:16 < P-Logic> If there was a P-LogicWiki I'd want the police to intervene
13:16 <~canine> eh, chris' stuff is public
13:16 < cows2> I mean what is viginia going to do
13:16 <~canine> like he's a minor celebrity
13:16 < P-Logic> So I can't really complain about the law
13:16 < cows2> have the UK extradite you?
13:16 <~canine> no privacy rights there
13:16 < P-Logic> Yeah
13:17 < P-Logic> It's all a grey area and I don't want to have to consult a lawyer about exactly what is legal and what isn't
13:17 < P-Logic> But if I had, say, a public blog, and I wrote something harsh about Chris on it
13:17 < P-Logic> That would be a crime for sure
13:17 <~canine> i'm amazed
13:17 < cows2> there are just a handful of people who truecrypt things like entire drives
13:18 < P-Logic> Check this out
13:18 < cows2> either you are doing something brazenly illegal, you are richard stalman, or you are just paranoid the government is after you
13:18 < P-Logic> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19059127
13:18 <~canine> haha, yeah
13:18 < cows2> yeah
13:18 < cows2> so, don't message chris
13:18 < cows2> problem solved
13:19 < P-Logic> Nah it's vital that I do, I'm in the middle of a big saga with him
13:19 <~canine> huh?
13:19 < P-Logic> Yeah I've got him on the hook about something, been doing it for a couple of months now
13:20 < cows2> yeah I am sure
13:20 <~canine> huh
13:20 <~canine> there's only one person like that
13:20 <~canine> and i didn't think they were in the UK
13:20 < P-Logic> Well I haven't told anyone who I don't know very well about it
13:20 <~canine> nah, if chris knows about it, i know about it
13:21 < P-Logic> Are you Chris?
13:21 < cows2> yes
13:21 < cows2> canine is chris
13:21 < P-Logic> haha
13:21 <~canine> nah, but i could go out for lunch with chris if i wanted to
13:21 <~canine> for example
13:21 < P-Logic> That's interesting. I guess you like to preserve that by not trolling him right?
13:21 <~canine> well, after bob died, we stopped trolling him because chris was mourning
13:21 <~canine> and past that, it just got kinda boring
13:22 <~canine> i mean, we keep up on the updates, but we don't bother doing anything ourselves
13:22 < P-Logic> Yeah for sure, people move on etc.
13:22 < P-Logic> It was definitely tough to get him to even respond to me
13:22 < P-Logic> I had to put quite a bit of effort into the supporting material
13:23 < P-Logic> I work for an advertising agency and I got some of the guys in the studio involved, to create stuff
13:23 <~canine> huh, that doesn't sound right
13:24 <~canine> how many interactions have you had?
13:24 < P-Logic> Hang on let me check how many emails
13:24 <~canine> oh no
13:24 <~canine> either you're lying or that wasn't chris
13:24 <~canine> chris would've mentioned that
13:24 < P-Logic> It was definitely Chris
13:24 <~canine> nah, there are lots of fake ones out there
13:24 < P-Logic> There's been 108 emails
13:25 <~canine> i mean, i can ask chris sometime
13:25 < P-Logic> Fake ones with his face though?
13:25 <~canine> yeah
13:25 <~canine> and tons of people falling for it
13:25 < P-Logic> Nah don't do that
13:25 < P-Logic> I mean, I have deliberately not told you any details to be safe
13:25 < P-Logic> But, I don't want this to blow before the payoff
13:25 < P-Logic> Don't worry, you'll find out about it when it's done
13:26 <~canine> it's not him (or again, you're lying)
13:26 < P-Logic> It's definitely him. I have proof of that. I dunno what to tell you man, maybe he doesn't tell you absolutely everything
13:26 <~canine> which of his emails were you contacting him through?
13:27 < P-Logic> ChrisChanSonichu@aol.com
13:27 < P-Logic> I've had calls with him too
13:27 < P-Logic> So unless it's someone doing a killer impression
13:27 < P-Logic> Now you see why I need to be careful with the legal side of things
13:29 <~canine> yeah, nah, you're lying
13:29 < cows2> I will eat my hat if you could provide a single chris email
13:29 <~canine> fatty confirmed it
13:29 <~canine> heh
13:30 < P-Logic> Wait a second, you called him up and said what exactly?
13:30 <~canine> didn't call him, messaged him
13:30 < P-Logic> What did you say? I am concerned now
13:30 <~canine> me: Hey chris, you get any emails
13:30 < P-Logic> I was kinda telling you this on the assumption that, y'know, you wouldn't go and immediately tell Chris
13:30 <~canine> him: no I don't use email anymore
13:31 < cows2> *phantom jerk*
13:31 <~canine> him: except from people i know
13:31 < P-Logic> Alright, that's cool. Thank fuck for that. Ok from now on just assume I am lying
13:31 <~canine> no, i know you're lying
13:31 < cows2> Not going to be a stretch there
13:31 < P-Logic> That's ideal
13:32 < P-Logic> Just don't talk to Chris about it anymore
13:32 < P-Logic> Jeez
13:32 <~canine> ?
13:33 < P-Logic> I shit myself there man, haha
13:34 < P-Logic> So is someone else doing something with him then?
13:34 < cows2> fatty doesn't do anything
13:34 < cows2> just mopes around town
13:34 < cows2> playing with legos
13:34 < P-Logic> Seems a bit A-Loggy to refer to him as "fatty", no?
13:35 <~canine> nah, that's been a nickname for him for awhile
13:35 < cows2> the mere fact you used the term alogging
13:35 < cows2> means I don't want to talk to you anymore
13:35 <~canine> heh
13:36 < P-Logic> Canine: Yeah I've seen it used now and then but I always thought it was a bit too pejorative
13:36 <~canine> eh, alogging is usually a consistent thing
13:36 < P-Logic> cows2: That's tragic. I am sorry I have fallen so far on your respect meter.
13:36 <~canine> like, specifically going on about how awful a person chris is
13:37 <~canine> regularly
13:37 < cows2> I hate chris and I want to punch him in the face, he gives a bad name to autistics /sneed
13:37 < cows2> that stuff
13:37 < P-Logic> I prefer it when he just speaks for himself, he usually shows exactly what type of person he is
13:37 <~canine> yeah, that
13:38 < P-Logic> Like many, I question the motives of those who feel the need to hammer the point home
13:39 < cows2> I feel the need of sadness because I forgot my oyster crackers today
13:39 < cows2> now how am I suppose to eat my soup
13:39 < cows2> like a poor person without anything grain inside of it
13:40 <~canine> that sucks dude
13:40 < cows2> I might run by the store and just get some normal crackers
13:42 < P-Logic> canine: What's your opinion of the rumour that Chris is doing much, much better in his attitude since the 14BC fire?
13:43 <~canine> uhh well, back in the day, chris' mood would vary
13:43 <~canine> sometimes he seemed pretty content and sometimes he seemed pretty depressed
13:44 <~canine> he was depressed, but he always had hope that made him seem a lot happier
13:44 <~canine> he's the same nowadays, just without hope
13:44 <~canine> and the fire didn't really change anything in that area
13:44 < P-Logic> That's a shame
13:45 <~canine> eh, his hope before was derived from the fact that chris didn't understand reality
13:45 <~canine> he's finding out the truth about his life
13:45 <~canine> he thought he could sit on his ass and get a pretty girlfriend
13:45 <~canine> that was his hope before
13:45 < P-Logic> I heard something about an email where he seemed to feel better that had been distributed privately
13:46 <~canine> sounds like a rumor
13:46 <~canine> well, and bad interpretation of such an email
13:46 -!- Cornelia [~C@BABA6787.9AE67537.719BF6A7.IP] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:46 < P-Logic> Yeah maybe it was the latter, it came from Null from the CWCki forums so I don't think it was total BS, but maybe an over simplification.
13:47 < P-Logic> So you don't reckon he's any better since the fire?
13:47 <~canine> uhh, he's out of 14BC?
13:47 < P-Logic> I figured maybe the change of environment has been good for him on some level
13:47 <~canine> better air, i suppose
13:47 < P-Logic> Yeah, that would be good for anyone. But you don't think that's reflected in his behaviour or attitude?
13:47 <~canine> not consistently, no
13:48 <~canine> maybe they just saw an email that was more terse than his normal one
13:48 < P-Logic> Yeah
13:48 < P-Logic> Do you have any hope for him?
13:48 <~canine> he might live a tolerable life post-barb
13:49 <~canine> depending on how long she lasts
13:49 < P-Logic> The better environment might give her a bit more longevity
13:49 <~canine> eh, slightly
13:49 <~canine> her health isn't good regardless
13:49 < cows2> you can't tell with old people
13:49 < cows2> they just go when they go
13:50 < P-Logic> How old is she? Like 75?
13:50 <~canine> but i guess people with terrible health sometimes surprise you and last to 100
13:50 <~canine> while the guy with great health his whole life kicks it at 65
13:50 < cows2> my grandma had that problem
13:50 < P-Logic> Yeah it's crazy like that
13:50 < cows2> just give death the middle finger and then dies in her sleep peacefully
13:54 < cows2> lunch time
13:54 < cows2> lates
14:31 -!- P-Logic [~Avery@phologisti.con] has left #sonichu []
15:50 < cows2> well that's over
15:50 < cows2> oh and he left
15:50 <~canine> yep
15:50 < cows2> off to troll chris I guess

I've met cows before. He's a real gentleman and a scholar. Played Scrabble IRL one time with him too.

 

[HG 400]

So you really think I had Chris on the hook about something? Haha, ok. I guess I must have some of the greatest hoarded content of all.

No, I think you were lying about it because you thought it'd make people like you. lol

 

[Tragi-Chan]

The really weird thing about trolling Chris is, unlike many people who have been trolled or bullied, the trolling Chris has been given would have been legitimately useful and constructive had he chosen to listen to it. Most bullies would be content to do things like A-log their victims or do really disgusting things like bluespike would have, but Chris had people like Clyde Cash or Kacey's Dad would actually give the guy very real advice and information without using any insulting language or tone.

In the cases of Clyde and Kacey's Dad, they actually were pretty insulting. I mean, their points were valid, but they didn't exactly sugar coat it. To give the flipside of my earlier post, I don't really think the "we're only trying to help" argument works. If you're familiar enough with Chris to successfully contact him, then you know that Chris cannot be helped. Every avenue has been tried. People have cajoled him, threatened him, bribed him with sex, they've tried using logic, religion, friendly advice - nothing works. Chris will always just say "Hmm, yeah," and then bumble along the same way he always has.

In fact, at this stage, "trolling," if you want to call it that, is the worst way to get through to him, because he will use any excuse to avoid doing what he doesn't want to do. If he has to get a job because (say) Jackie told him to, then the moment Jackie is out of the picture then he has no motivation to carry on. If Renee asks him to dress nicely and Renee reveals herself to be Thetan, then that's even worse - "Renee" was actually evil and Chris was right not to do what she said.

 

[P-Logic]

No, I think you were lying about it because you thought it'd make people like you. lol

Yeah, I mean, with everything I have said and done on this forum, it's clear that I am desperate to be popular here. Haha.

 

[Karen]

No need to get mad over a theoretical situation. They could have made money off of Chris easy, before /cow/ and all the rest.

I think trolling should only be necessary if the lolcows don'tproduce content of their own, but you have to keep in mind these are real people with real emotions, save tyce who's basically a brain dead neo nazi at this point. You can't treat them like they're cartoon characters who respond funny to stressful situations. There are consequences to being trolled by weens on the internet and I don't think it should necessarily happen to every lolcow.

With the amount of weens attacking lolcows, I can see how it would be hard for them irl. I'm going to give the example of Chris, but this can also be applied to other people we've talked about on the lolcow sub-forum.

So Chris was perceived as being a pedophile by a lot of people in the beginning, but this turned out to be false...But now you have a bunch of weens writing about how much of a pedo he is. If Chris theoretically *snapped out of it* and decided he was going to get a job, he is going to have a significantly harder time getting one on top of his disabilities (autistics have a harder time getting jobs because they are "seen as a liability when it comes to work performance and healthcare"-My uncle who is a cooperate recruiter ) because they look up people and they'll see, "Oh this Christian Chandler guy is doing all this nasty stuff we don't want him."

I just find internet trolling counterproductive in general becaues its never removed from the internet and can ruin people's livelihoods. I don't care if its Chris or some random asshole, all I know is that being homeless sucks and I wouldn't want to be homeless because someone said I was a pedophile on the internet.

 

[Haesindang Park]

I think Thetan did attempt to help Chris in a rather unorthodox way only to produce unexpected and shocking results such as him sending pics of his piercing to her. She had a clear intent and already knew what she was going to do won't be "ethical" but at least she tried. Otherwise, Chris could've done something worse. Think about it. She at least got Chris to go out to some social outlet (like LGBT events) to give him that opportunity to get away from Barb and experience the real world a little. It may not be much improvement but most people who try to help Chris have failed to convince him to do anything. Thetan at least got Chris to do something though not much. That takes a lot of great effort alone just to convince him to move around a little.

 

[Flowers For Sonichu]

I should also add with my original post that doing stuff like this and failing to get any interesting info gives legitimate fodder for the folks of /cow/ to mock us and some of those dudes are legitimately scary and have bad intentions.

 

[HG 400]

Yeah, I mean, with everything I have said and done on this forum, it's clear that I am desperate to be popular here. Haha.

idk, what have you said and done? I think you wanted recognition as an ebin weenlord and when that didn't work out you got kinda bitter about it, tbh. But I haven't been paying much attention to you so idk maybe I'm wrong. Not that I believe you or anything, but why would anyone 'sting' sonichu irc by bragging about such obviously fake weenery?

 

[champthom]

In the cases of Clyde and Kacey's Dad, they actually were pretty insulting. I mean, their points were valid, but they didn't exactly sugar coat it. To give the flipside of my earlier post, I don't really think the "we're only trying to help" argument works. If you're familiar enough with Chris to successfully contact him, then you know that Chris cannot be helped. Every avenue has been tried. People have cajoled him, threatened him, bribed him with sex, they've tried using logic, religion, friendly advice - nothing works. Chris will always just say "Hmm, yeah," and then bumble along the same way he always has.

I think one thing that's necessary to bring up is the social context in terms of what people liked about trolling when some of this happened. When the Kacey calls were done, A-Logging was an acceptable and required belief (because otherwise, you were a white knight) and people liked Chris "squirming like a little bitch that he is." In regards to the CWCipedia, people were bored by the new Sonichu pages but they loved it when there were gay ads plastered over it. If the calls were released immediately, people would have applauded Kacey for "sticking it to Chris."

Problem is some of those calls were sat on for too long and the context was removed. It wasn't until A-Logging was an extremely frowned on practice that Kacey came across as as, for lack of a better word, a bitch.

Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to say now that Chris will not listen to helpful advice but at the point of the Kacey calls, there was a glimmer of hope that maybe if you berated Chris for his faults by a woman he was attracted to, he might listen. Of course, that didn't prove to be the case and it sorta had the opposite effect.

The goal for many trolls is endgame. They want Chris to get help and then they can feel like they can walk away. Yes, they could walk away now. But I think most of them want some finale video where Chris stands outside his house, in that blazer from his first video, where he says he's going to get professional help, that he's realized the errors of his ways, and then rides off into the sunset (metaphorically speaking, at least). The problem is that Chris won't stop. I remember when I first followed Chris, I thought "Okay, if someone steals his medallions, he'll cry on camera and that'll be it." Nope, he comes out with that video about how it's not the real medallion and how it's his high school ring that gave him his power. No on ever saw that coming. He keeps doing things like this. I remember Clyde announced "I'm going to send a letter to Bob about the fucked up stuff Chris has done and that will end Chris. Bob will take away his Internet for good and we can all stop." Bob got that letter and...he didn't care. He said he got letters like that every day and he just doesn't care anymore, he can't really do anything with Chris. A lot of the stuff about wanting Chris to self improve, I think is just so people don't feel compelled to troll Chris anymore. Thing is Chris is too proud to admit he's wrong about anything. Now we're seeing him do really bizarre stuff nobody would have expected 5 years ago like him half assing being a transgendered woman and going psychotic over Sonic's arms being blue.

I should also add with my original post that doing stuff like this and failing to get any interesting info gives legitimate fodder for the folks of /cow/ to mock us and some of those dudes are legitimately scary and have bad intentions.

This is pretty much the main rationale behind my "no trolling" rule here.

 

[Karen]

I think Thetan did attempt to help Chris in a rather unorthodox way only to produce unexpected and shocking results such as him sending pics of his piercing to her. She had a clear intent and already knew what she was going to do won't be "ethical" but at least she tried. Otherwise, Chris could've done something worse. Think about it. She at least got Chris to go out to some social outlet (like LGBT events) to give him that opportunity to get away from Barb and experience the real world a little. It may not be much improvement but most people who try to help Chris have failed to convince him to do anything. Thetan at least got Chris to do something though not much. That takes a lot of great effort alone just to convince him to move around a little.

I think getting him out of the house was a great idea, and going to those LGBT events have certainly changed his perceptions on people as a whole.
I think Chris just can't learn from being told what to do, but I think he's more of a Kinesthetic Learner, he just has no motivation to do so anymore since he left high school.

Making a false sense of reality that is the entire basis for his social (and by proxy) emotional being is not helping him. I think his idea of getting a sweetheart to take care of him is actually slightly ingenious coming from Chris, because I feel he needs someone intimate in his life to help him take those first steps into experiencing more than just the vidya and internet.

Its like trying to play Foosball (aka table football) by yourself, sure the game is fun, but you can really only get the enjoyment out of it if you have someone to play with.

EDIT: Typos

 

[The I Scream Man]

words

Wow ok thats totally unrealistic on this site, how could you get here and post this before I did? You totally sniped me, I'm the original P-hater, man. I thought we were bros.

As for content, I don't feel bad about the trolling one little bit because Chris could stop it at any time by simply going away from the internet. The fact that he runs the risk of trolling by continuing with his epic quests means the onus is on him to change the outcome, not us, because the fact of the matter is he's too lazy to change the outcome. I don't understand why that's our fault, and I especially don't understand why some people are being powerful hypocritical about it, because lets face facts ladies and germs: it really is hypocritical to act high and mighty while perusing the content that was gleaned by methods you have said you find so abhorrent.

Yeah, I mean, with everything I have said and done on this forum, it's clear that I am desperate to be popular here. Haha.

Alright dude this has been a while coming, but yes, you really do crave attention and you've come here to get it. You actually do seem legitimately desperate to gain acceptance and approval. There's no need to act coy about it, because at least from where I'm standing it's pretty obvious.

I should also add with my original post that doing stuff like this and failing to get any interesting info gives legitimate fodder for the folks of /cow/ to mock us and some of those dudes are legitimately scary and have bad intentions.

As for you, you have allowed your hatred (and yes, lets call a spade a spade here) of Thetan and Skyraider to warp and twist any actual intent your arguments have because in most of the posts related to them you legitimately come off as seething with rage about it. You've allowed it to become personal for you.

And lol seriously no one cares about /cow/, if you're that scared of them killing the goose that laid the golden eggs then feel free to stop posting, so that they don't target you in the inevitable purge.

EDIT: to elaborate a little more, I feel like we ceded the high ground in the trolling debates when we were all too eager to laugh and enjoy the stupid shit he says and does while at the same time decrying the methods that brought us such a bounty. Basically what I'm saying is, I personally respect your right to disagree with me, but lets be real here: