Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Ravenor]

I'm replying here so as not to derail.

In the British Museum are all these Egyptian mummies. Most of these are dead royalty/nobility, and it took what was then expensive state-of-the-art medical procedures to preserve the bodies.

As a result, scientists can study the mummies and learn many details of how they lived and died.

Also among the mummies is an incredibly well-preserved corpse nicknamed Ginger. He was a poor commoner, and when he died he was buried in the desert sand. Coincidentally, these desert conditions preserved his corpse in a better state than many of the royal mummies in their expensive tombs. Even some of his hair is intact.

As a result, more can be learned about Ginger than a lot of the pharaohs and court officials - not because of any special qualities or achievements of his, but because of a chance set of circumstances.

Chris is basically Ginger. He is noteworthy because so many details of his life are documented on the internet. We have access to Chris, in a way we only typically do to celebrities.

Thus, I think it's perfectly understandable to project superlativeness onto Chris, because we are conditioned with the idea that celebrities represent superlative achievement in some field: the richest, the most powerful, most sexually attractive, most proficient at their sport or art.

Chris is primarily known for being stupid, repulsive and bad at art; we make him the stupidest, the most repulsive, the worst artist - because that's what naturally fits the level of detail we have on his life.

***

I realise I've meandered way off point. I do agree that Chris would not be anyone's client of choice. I suppose I just wanted to make the argument I've tried to make above alongside that.

So Chris is going to be a time capsule for popular culture from the mid 90's - ?? for future historians, that's a interesting thought.

 

[I'm With Chris]

Sure, he fucked up royally during 2008-2010. FIVE YEARS AGO! He got trolled into oblivion. But then he wised up and, with a few exceptions (because he's mental), stopped the game.

That said, how do we now judge thetan amd skyraider's actions? At best, it's an attempt to garner obscure, internet fame? At worst it is an object lesson in how not to treat people.

[Autism Intensifies]

 

[nad7155]

So Chris is going to be a time capsule for popular culture from the mid 90's

Good point.

When I am dead and burried, my Sonichu and Rosechu TRUE and HONEST medallions might have some historical merit.

 

[Jamsta's Second Cousin]

I think the bottom line is, as long as you don't physically harm or constantly torment Chris in any way, the comings and goings of any potential sweethearts and the like aren't going to phase him anymore. It's pretty evident he finds it hard to form emotional bonds with people thanks to the tism. Even though he does use flowery language and insane gestures professing love, these have been primarily in the pursuit of china/the hope of capturing what would amount to a slave in his orbit. I don't even really see pretending to be a sweetheart as trolling at this point. Chris has moved on in the past, and will always move on.

I find it pretty revealing that the only potential sweethearts he was really cut up about were Megan and Wallflower. This makes sense, as they are people he met under natural circumstances, and the "relationships" of sorts progressed naturally. Tism or not, this is always were the strongest feelings come in. Any internet heartsweets have been merely a distraction most of the time, at best the hope of some China. You only have to look at how easily he just assumed all these people have been raped, or died, or whatever else to see how real they were to him. It's just fantasy.

At times, a subtle troll, someone to at least distract his attentions from his current circumstances, would actually be a blessing for Chris. He has no real meaningful interactions going on in his life right now. Pretty sure this is why he was always so quick to assume someone was interested. He was that desperate to latch onto something to fill the void. Though most trolling has technically been negative for Chris, it at least provided him with a lot of company and focus he wouldn't have had otherwise for the duration.

 

[General Juicer]

Sure, he fucked up royally during 2008-2010. FIVE YEARS AGO! He got trolled into oblivion. But then he wised up and, with a few exceptions (because he's mental), stopped the game.

That said, how do we now judge thetan amd skyraider's actions? At best, it's an attempt to garner obscure, internet fame? At worst it is an object lesson in how not to treat people.

[Autism Intensifies]

1.) Chris hasn't wised up. The idea that someone who vandalizes merchandise and tags employees with pepper spray because they're upset over minor changes to a fictional character is 'wising up' is comical. What's more, this is going to continue indefinitely. He has no common sense, no life experience, no real education, no humility, no sense of responsibility, and no one in his life willing to keep him grounded so he will continue to bumble from disaster to disaster unless something unprecedentedly earth-shattering happens to him.

2.) The trolling from the last year is exactly the same in stupidity and amorality as it always was. You can criticize the Catherine Saga for being depressing or unfunny (despite the fact that it was executed with a higher level of 'craftsmanship' than other trolling projects) but there's no way you can claim that the Liquid Saga or the Miyamoto Saga was morally okay while this was not. If anything, the Catherine Saga had a higher concern for Chris's well-being than previous ones. A blatantly pathetic line of argument to be sure, as it's basically 'Mussolini wasn't as bad as Hitler' but it kills the idea that this was somehow crossing the line.

 

[Lipitor]

Sure, he fucked up royally during 2008-2010. FIVE YEARS AGO! He got trolled into oblivion. But then he wised up and, with a few exceptions (because he's mental), stopped the game.

That said, how do we now judge thetan amd skyraider's actions? At best, it's an attempt to garner obscure, internet fame? At worst it is an object lesson in how not to treat people.

[Autism Intensifies]

I think the bottom line is, as long as you don't physically harm or constantly torment Chris in any way, the comings and goings of any potential sweethearts and the like aren't going to phase him anymore. It's pretty evident he finds it hard to form emotional bonds with people thanks to the tism. Even though he does use flowery language and insane gestures professing love, these have been primarily in the pursuit of china/the hope of capturing what would amount to a slave in his orbit. I don't even really see pretending to be a sweetheart as trolling at this point. Chris has moved on in the past, and will always move on.

I find it pretty revealing that the only potential sweethearts he was really cut up about were Megan and Wallflower. This makes sense, as they are people he met under natural circumstances, and the "relationships" of sorts progressed naturally. Tism or not, this is always were the strongest feelings come in. Any internet heartsweets have been merely a distraction most of the time, at best the hope of some China. You only have to look at how easily he just assumed all these people have been raped, or died, or whatever else to see how real they were to him. It's just fantasy.

At times, a subtle troll, someone to at least distract his attentions from his current circumstances, would actually be a blessing for Chris. He has no real meaningful interactions going on in his life right now. Pretty sure this is why he was always so quick to assume someone was interested. He was that desperate to latch onto something to fill the void. Though most trolling has technically been negative for Chris, it at least provided him with a lot of company and focus he wouldn't have had otherwise for the duration.

Lol at best skyraider/thetan lead him on. Something that happens to normal guys all the time when it comes to women. The problem was in how Chris himself handled it. Chris just got all butthurt when Catie had to distance herself cuz Chris was getting all pervy on her. Had he acted like more of a gentlemen he'd probably gotten to spend more time with her. He turned on her the minute he realized she wasn't a toy to be played with.

At worst they catfished him, but still had Chris not acted like his average stupid self this wouldn't have come off to embarrassing for him. Chris knew deep down this was probably the case, he just chose to accept the fantasy.

 

[Le Bateleur]

Lol at best skyraider/thetan lead him on. Something that happens to normal guys all the time when it comes to women. The problem was in how Chris himself handled it. Chris just got all butthurt when Catie had to distance herself cuz Chris was getting all pervy on her. Had he acted like more of a gentlemen he'd probably gotten to spend more time with her. He turned on her the minute he realized she wasn't a toy to be played with.

At worst they catfished him, but still had Chris not acted like his average stupid self this wouldn't have come off to embarrassing for him. Chris knew deep down this was probably the case, he just chose to accept the fantasy.

Yes, if Chris had behaved better toward "Catie", surely the troll playing the character would have wanted to spend more time pretending to tolerate him. What a huge benefit this would have been to Chris.

 

[Lipitor]

Yes, if Chris had behaved better toward "Catie", surely the troll playing the character would have wanted to spend more time pretending to tolerate him. What a huge benefit this would have been to Chris.

Yea they would have. This whole operation was clearly geared toward information mining. I'm not saying he'd actually gain Catie's love or get married, but he'd probably have scored at least a couple more dates. Which is what Chris wanted in the end. Had he behaved they'd have spent more time with him mining lulz off him. The embarrassing parts of this situation were only set in motion by the trolls, Chris is the one who ultimately acted them out.

 

[Le Bateleur]

Yea they would have. This whole operation was clearly geared toward information mining. I'm not saying he'd actually gain Catie's love or get married, but he'd probably have scored at least a couple more dates. Which is what Chris wanted in the end. Had he behaved they'd have spent more time with him mining lulz off him. The embarrassing parts of this situation were only set in motion by the trolls, Chris is the one who ultimately acted them out.

I'm really not certain "Catie" would have strung Chris along any longer - and even if she had, it would have been worse for Chris once it ended.

You're giving Chris far too much agency by basically blaming him for falling for this. Setting aside that he's cognitively impaired; Skyraider and Catie were both far smarter than Chris and were armed with very detailed knowledge of his past and his personality. It was hardly an even contest.

I don't personally think it was about information mining, either. Skyraider dislikes the Chandlers and loves the hero-worship he gets from a section of us here. Two birds with one stone...

 

[General Juicer]

Setting aside that he's cognitively impaired;

Please stop adding that phrase or variations thereof to your arguments. It's quite condescending to people with autism and otherwise detracts from your overall point.

 

[BiggerJ]

Something I've realized about the trolling is that at this point, Chris's life would actually be worse without it. Before the trolling, Chris was content to have his fantasies and express them the only way he could - his comic. Then the trolls destroyed his self-esteem and - as Chris puts it - poisoned his mind. Before the trolling, his days blended into each other like an endless high school weekend, and Chris was happy. It was an illusion, but it was all he had. Now, the trolling is the only thing capable of making Chris feel ups and downs.

It's like the good 1970's cartoon of The Lorax, in which the Once-ler actually makes a couple of good points, one of which basically is, "Yeah, it's causing problems, but if I shut down my incredibly large and lucrative factory, a lot of people will be unemployed and it'll fuck up the economy." The Lorax has no answer to that.

 

[Le Bateleur]

Please stop adding that phrase or variations thereof to your arguments. It's quite condescending to people with autism and otherwise detracts from your overall point.

Believing Chris is autistic and believing Chris is cognitively impaired =/= believing autism is a cognitive impairment, or that all people with autism are cognitively impaired.

Chris had specific educational needs which were likely a product of a combination of factors, one being his autism.

For various reasons, these needs were never met and Chris was allowed to sleep in class and read Goosebumps.

As a result of this, compounded by poor socialisation in adult life, Chris shows a subnormal ability to think critically, and to assimilate new information. He is cognitively impaired - which is germane to my argument because it makes him vulnerable to deception, as in the case of trolling.

 

[BF 388]

So I listened to the BlueSpike/Max/Julie anal play track last night. I had flickers of sympathy for Chris at times, but then I remembered he was doing this over a PSN account (paid for with your tax $) vs China. And he kept reverting to toddler-style whining.

The fact that he still hasn't learnt from this anchuent history is damning.

That said, I think the call to let a 13yr old troll him was kinda offish. Wasn't particularly sophisticated (cut yourself, burn your house down? Come on kid), but I guess you don't have to be with Chris. And he doesn't learn.



/autistic?

 

[I'm With Chris]

1.) Chris hasn't wised up. The idea that someone who vandalizes merchandise and tags employees with pepper spray because they're upset over minor changes to a fictional character is 'wising up' is comical. What's more, this is going to continue indefinitely. He has no common sense, no life experience, no real education, no humility, no sense of responsibility, and no one in his life willing to keep him grounded so he will continue to bumble from disaster to disaster unless something unprecedentedly earth-shattering happens to him.

2.) The trolling from the last year is exactly the same in stupidity and amorality as it always was. You can criticize the Catherine Saga for being depressing or unfunny (despite the fact that it was executed with a higher level of 'craftsmanship' than other trolling projects) but there's no way you can claim that the Liquid Saga or the Miyamoto Saga was morally okay while this was not. If anything, the Catherine Saga had a higher concern for Chris's well-being than previous ones. A blatantly pathetic line of argument to be sure, as it's basically 'Mussolini wasn't as bad as Hitler' but it kills the idea that this was somehow crossing the line.

Whoa now - This is the ethics thread, not the morality thread. Morally, - all of this is wrong. If any of us were to describe our farming hobby to the public at large, we'd be labelled in less than flattering terms, most likely as anonymous internet bullies at best and hateful psychopaths at worst. This is how they think. Who cares?

The ethics are for us alone, in this small group, to decide. I'd like to think that our ethical stance isn'e too far away from documentary filmmakers who find and celebrate weirdos. To be real - I can applaud Thetan and Skyraider for the Herculean effort. I can appreciate the effort put in and it's execution but I'm still left with the taste that I'm cheering for the trolls for gaining access (which is something I suppose), because much of what OPL does in the audio is act awkward - first date type stuff. It's a bit embarrassing to listen to., considering that he should be (developmentally), far beyond that.

We all know crazy people. Most of them are not funny at all - just sad or irritating. Chris USED to be really funny on a consistent basis but not so much anymore. Now we are like people in a crowded ER waiting room, watching and waiting for various junkies and schizos to chimp out.

I would have preferred that S&T used their access to somehow encourage more comics or videos. Even if it meant dropping Lovequest #8. I'd even be ethically OK with Chris being a wiling participant in some sort of money making scheme because I, like every one else, know he would eventually go off the rails and deliver the quoteables.

Like, what if Cousin Al one day decided to become a Let's Play type guy and needed a color commentator?

 

[Yawning Asperchu]

Chris is an adult and usually does a fine job defending himself, in his own way. He comes across as smug and in charge far more often than he allows himself to seem defeated. Sure he has Autism but it seems closer on the scale to Asperger's which, whether he likes it or not, is almost a sought-after affliction due to its sufferers being intellegent at the cost of not being able to understand social cues and shit like that. My point, or opinion, being that if there's anything in Chris's life that he can handle himself at this point, it's everyday run of the mill trolling attempts (he still needs Anna to screen sweethearts...Barb seems more gullable than before somehow). My pity goes out to the MANYYY people on the 'net and IRL who are bullied and don't have the mental faculties, nerves or quick wit to defend themselves in the monent (or the Autism and IDGAF-itis needed to constantly move past these events like nothing happened). I can't pity someone financially coasting through life, going through some drama that was either deserved (GAMe PLACe stuff, Unlawful Gas Release arrest, etc.) or manufactured (e'rrrything involving sweethearts) and then quickly moving on like many of us wish we could.

The grudges last, but any talk of heartache coming from Chris I kinda take with a grain of salt at this point. He seems to be looking for someone to fill an opening in his life, not a real give and take relationship. I think the phrase "Build a sweetheart from the ground up" is very telling.

 

[nad7155]

any talk of heartache coming from Chris I kinda take with a grain of salt at this point.

More like at any point.

I made a post a while back about how discussing "trolling ethics" was redundant. Nothing new.

But I will admit that different takes on it can be interesting.

 

[Thetan]

Chris is an adult and usually does a fine job defending himself, in his own way. He comes across as smug and in charge far more often than he allows himself to seem defeated. Sure he has Autism but it seems closer on the scale to Asperger's which, whether he likes it or not, is almost a sought-after affliction due to its sufferers being intellegent at the cost of not being able to understand social cues and shit like that. My point, or opinion, being that if there's anything in Chris's life that he can handle himself at this point, it's everyday run of the mill trolling attempts (he still needs Anna to screen sweethearts...Barb seems more gullable than before somehow). My pity goes out to the MANYYY people on the 'net and IRL who are bullied and don't have the mental faculties, nerves or quick wit to defend themselves in the monent (or the Autism and IDGAF-itis needed to constantly move past these events like nothing happened). I can't pity someone financially coasting through life, going through some drama that was either deserved (GAMe PLACe stuff, Unlawful Gas Release arrest, etc.) or manufactured (e'rrrything involving sweethearts) and then quickly moving on like many of us wish we could.

The grudges last, but any talk of heartache coming from Chris I kinda take with a grain of salt at this point. He seems to be looking for someone to fill an opening in his life, not a real give and take relationship. I think the phrase "Build a sweetheart from the ground up" is very telling.

I appreciate where you're trying to go with this, but I feel the need to point out that Chris has demonstrated time and time again that he's not particularly intelligent.

 

[Jamsta's Second Cousin]

I appreciate where you're trying to go with this, but I feel the need to point out that Chris has demonstrated time and time again that he's not particularly intelligent.

I don't know that he's not intelligent, more that he has absolutely no smarts. We all know the supreme irony of his hatred of the word naive given that he is the ultimate mark. He lives in self-enforced ignorance, a product of living in his own sheltered little world for too long. This means he can trick himself into believing whatever he wants as long as it fits the narrative he's given his life. Given the right environment, he could have been relatively normal.

Of course, you can say that his extraordinary levels of naivety add up to lack of intelligence, but I feel a little uneasy to directly call it that. It's a complicated issue.

 

[Yawning Asperchu]

I appreciate where you're trying to go with this, but I feel the need to point out that Chris has demonstrated time and time again that he's not particularly intelligent.

Oh no doubt. I just don't think he's below average in terms of reacting to outright bullying (his tirades are almost admirable when compared people who mentally assume the fetal in those instances) and when it comes to being "heart broken" he has super human healing powers. So in my mind, if trolling is to exist then why not Chris?

 

[Jamsta's Second Cousin]

Oh no doubt. I just don't think he's below average in terms of reacting to outright bullying (his tirades are almost admirable when compared people who mentally assume the fetal in those instances) and when it comes to being "heart broken" he has super human healing powers. So in my mind, if trolling is to exist then why not Chris?

The absolute worst thing you can do when being bullied is take the bait. If you ignore the people attempting to rile you, they'll just go find someone else. I was never bullied in school for multiple reasons, but mostly because I didn't give a shit. If someone said "You're gay" or something, I'd just say "Yep, I'm a massive gay". Imagine if Chris said "Yeah you're right guys, I'm gay. I love dick, give me the dick!" instead of the overly-physical revulsion he felt even attempting to even say the word? People wouldn't give a shit. If he'd have just said from the start "Yeah, my comic is shitty, but whatever. I'm going to do it anyway, say what you want" then none of this would have happened. His massive overreaction and tard rages are the whole reason we're even discussing him.