Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[EI 903]

We've been getting a whole lot of debate over various ethical issues related to Chris trolling lately, and it has been derailing threads about other things. Also, since it has been happening across several threads, a lot of people keep posting basically the same things that have already been said before in other places.

Originally, the thread where Null revealed the closure of the Private Discussion forum was supposed to be the home for this debate. Eventually it ran out of steam, and there was distraction from the debate when people would ask for details about the private forum. This thread will be for trolling issues only.

Please keep all debate here. If someone who has trolled Chris posts in another thread and you have a moral complaint against it or ethics comment, quote that post and still put the reaction here.

For the immediate future, any comments in other threads about trolling ethics are subject to summary deletion. They might be moved here if a mod feels nice, but don't count on that.

Also, KEEP DEBATE CIVIL. All rules about A-Logging, ratings abuse, and community disruption are still in place here. If issues surrounding Chris trolls leave you so enraged that you can't post calmly and it has an effect on your life outside the internet I would suggest this book for you, as you likely need it: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Shy-Survival-Guide-Talmer-Shockley/dp/1843108976

Let the extremely autistic internet version of the Lincoln-Douglas debates begin.

 

[YI 457]

And by fun I should be specific: no medallions showed up nobody's ass, and the list goes on.

 

[CatParty]

chris never picks out one specific troll he only ever refers to the cwcki or the cwcki forums. to post in or read these things is the most active way to troll him. all else is just secondary.
the only way to feel above such "trollings" is to not post or support the sites. by doing this the reader will stop the need for "content" therefore stopping people to go out and get it. if anyone wants to point fingers, they should blame themselves as well.

 

[BT 075]

Trolling is kind of unethical I suppose, but it doesn't bother me as long as it's done well.

Sometimes I do feel it goes a bit too far. Some of Chris' trolling efforts have reached Truman Show-esque levels with people impersonating his relatives, high school friends, making up lovers and constructing elaborate relationships and en entire love-life out of thin air. There's also people digging through his garbage and leaking (extremely private) emails, conversations and documents. Some of it simply goes too far and it reaches a point where it stops being funny and becomes sad.

But then again... this is a guy who openly shares pictures of his pierced butt with the world, and does so proudly and without a hint of shame. He's been trolling himself for ages, so he's kind of set himself up for a lot of what happened. The line between trolling and weening can be a bit thin at times, but the most important thing for me is: don't be a dick about it, don't be overly vindictive. Basically: don't be Mr. Smith, and we're cool.

 

[Flowers For Sonichu]

Skyraider: I'm really disturbed by your complete disdain for Chris and Barb that is coupled with your obsession with stalking them. It's one thing to take pictures of their stuff and laugh at them, but you almost seem to get some sort of schadenfreude out of it because you think they're bad people who deserve to be punished. In nearly every single post you make, you talk about how they're terrible people and don't deserve nice things at all and are better off living in some ditch. I don't understand what you accomplished by posting his scorched homework, I'm pretty sure Chris' actions over the past ten years have shown that Chris' Honor Roll ranking is on par with the special ed kids I went to high school with who achieved Honor Roll status. You really need to chill out and tone it down a little bit with your hatred for the Chandlers, that coupled with your stalking of them comes across as really spiteful and petty.

Thetan: It was a bad idea to try and help Chris in the way you did. You're not a therapist, and many therapists have worked with Chris and failed, so I don't know why you thought you would succeed. If you really wanted to help him, you wouldn't have mislead him and shared his personal details on the forums.

Catherine: You did something that dozens of trolls have done before, but you provided the least interesting and most depressing content of everyone.

 

[GS 281]

Satan brings up some excellent points. One thing I would like to add however is that as long as long-term harm is being done to the guy, I see no problem with people doing any of that. If you choose to go through trash, leak conversations, secrets, pictures, emails, any of that, sure there is some violation of trust that happens, but, eh, no problem. Leading a guy to believe that he is in a relationship... Dick move. Even if its not confirmed, and you as the table-setter identify he thinks you are (because the boundaries of relationships among people are typically implied, not explicit), then that's a dick move.

 

[Datiko]

I don't have any ethical issues with trolling provided the actor can live with his self. Watching how Chris reacts to various stimuli in interesting ways that justify his following. The inner-circle revelation bothered me because it was a betrayal of the community at large rather than something particularly mean done to Chris. The idea of inner-circles or "elite agents" doesn't sit well with my egalitarian view of Christorical Studies.

 

[jemas42]

I never get the 'ethics of trolling' debates. Did BlueSpike take it too far? Absolutely. Does Chris deserve to be trolled? Probably not? But the thing is, you're on a forum devoted entirely to trolling Chris. Whinging constantly about how X troll is being a bad person and should be nicer/stop is not productive and it's not interesting. If you don't like it, well I hate to tell you but no one is forcing you to be here.

 

[Objection!]

I know what trolling generally is supposed to be, but is it still trolling when it happens by accident and the access gained to a person is used not for nefarious purposes, but an attempt to help that person?

I think "trolling" as it pertains to Chris is something different at this point. You have the weens doing drive-by harassment and some traditional trolling such as sending missives to anyone involved with Chris-Tran and then you have Christorians who are supposed to observe and document (obsess/sperg) over every detail.

Then there are the one who got through. It was absolutely trolling back in the golden days of Christory, but now due to how hard (or bafflingly easy) it is to actually get directly to Chris and have him respond, I'm not sure what the goal or end game is or if it's really "trolling". Renee tried to push positive things into his life, but did so under deception. I'm still not sure how the whole Catherine thing started except that they've met in person. I have no idea what the goal was there or if Chris decided it was something and that's that.

Chris seems to be a unique case. Without trolls and weens (and whatever Kengle and Watermelon count as), Chris has no friends. He's stuck in a situation that we find untenable and we can't help but watch to see what happens. At this point, I don't know what to think anymore. I won't stand for bullying, but I can't help but think we've kind of forged a strange new ground. Very Truman Showesque.

I would really like to understand the sticking points from the other forumites, this is fascinating stuff.

 

[P-Logic]

you're on a forum devoted entirely to trolling Chris.

No we're not. We're on a forum where one of the rules explicitly forbids trolling Chris.

And even if we were on a forum devoted entirely to trolling Chris, it wouldn't mean that we'd given up the right to exercise some moral judgement on what is acceptable. This isn't a black and white issue. Some Chris trolling is a harmless prank that someone might actually do to a friend they genuinely care about. Some Chris trolling is a cold hearted destruction of his psyche. Just because I'm amused by the former, it doesn't mean I am forced to endorse the latter.

 

[YI 457]

But the thing is, you're on a forum devoted entirely to trolling Chris.

Nope.

I know what trolling generally is supposed to be, but is it still trolling when it happens by accident and the access gained to a person is used not for nefarious purposes, but an attempt to help that person?

In retrospective, that angle is as effective as trying to do brain surgery with plastic cutlery. The intentions were good, the methods were good (mostly), but the result is always the same. Why: because of Chris.

 

[Gay's Literal Definition]

Personally, I think it's most acceptable when Chris is (was) in generally good spirits and was producing a lot of content (comics, videos, etc.). In the heyday, the trolls were often reacting to things Chris said/did in videos and then Chris was reacting to what the trolls were doing. It was a closed loop, it was funny, and the interaction Chris (who would otherwise just be a complete shut-in) was receiving outweighed the "making fun of him" aspect.

I think Bob's death broke that loop and those days are now long gone. Chris appears to be circling the drain mentally and emotionally and rather than bounce back as he would before, any trolling (or anything he perceives as trolling) further wounds him. He's producing much less content, and what he does produce is always downtrodden and sad. The medallions are humorous, but I don't think they're sustainable, and will end soon, especially with the move coming/underway.

I want everything to turn around and return to the golden days of THAT IS MY HOUSE but I don't think that will happen. I think we should really be considering how much our continued attention to minutia and interference in Chris's life is persistently hurting him more than making us laugh. As much as I hate to say it, as I used to laugh until I cried many times when things were good, I think it may be time to let Chris live his life quietly in the hopes that he can somehow better himself. Trolling, at this point in Chris's experience, is unethical.

 

[warongiygas]

The way I see it, I'm not in a place where I can dictate ethics to the people who were doing the trolling. That said, it's clear that internet trolling has taken its toll on Chris. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve any of it, or all of it for that matter, but if I were Catherine right now, I'd feel pretty shitty about the whole deal. Chris is a broken, delusional mess and he's likely to stay that way because he shuts out everyone unless they're falling over backwards to pat his ass or they're offering potential china. If I were in Catherine's position; with all the history behind Chris and his trolls, I would at least try to help him. Maybe out of a sense of responsibility.

Once again, I'm not here to dictate what Catherine trolls should do, nor have I been here long enough to know what trolls have tried. I'm just sharing how I feel about the whole thing. How I think I would act If I were in Catherine's shoes. Knowing how shitty Chris's life is and having been duplicitous with him for the sole purpose of amusement, I would probably take it upon myself to reach out to him. I fully understand that the chances of Chris learning anything from such an act would be around 0%, but I just wouldn't be able to live with myself otherwise. I know we're not a forum of therapists, but knowing that these forums were directly implicated in this round of trolling, I don't feel like we're innocent observers either.

The flip-side to this is it's easy for anyone to debate the ethics of trolling Chris from the outside. We're not getting the creeper messages everyday and we're not being asked to carry his child. We don't actually have to worry about the repercussions of getting ourselves personally involved in the Chandler clusterfuck precisely because we're not involved.

 

[P-Logic]

Attention to minutia and interference in Chris's life is persistently hurting him more than making us laugh.

Attention to minutia is one thing, interfering in his life is another. I think paying attention to minutia is pretty harmless. For one thing, he's used to it. Some of it (like going through his burnt out house and painstakingly scanning page after page of his high school homework) paints an unsavoury picture of the person who does it, but it doesn't actually harm Chris.

Interfering in his life, at this point, is an extremely dark and disturbing thing to do. I really question the mentality of those who do it. It is, in the most literal sense of the word, sick.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

It's a complex issue, because quite frankly no one trolls Chris as hard as he trolls himself. Megan, Snyder, the Wallflower, Mary Lee Walsh, Sonic's blue arms, Adam Stackhouse, his various store bans, that was all him. During those sagas or whatever you'd call them, we saw Chris at his worst - vindictive, thoughtless, selfish, creepy, passive-aggressive, active-aggressive, lecherous, arrogant, petulant, childish, inconsiderate and deluded. And whether Chris had been trolled or not, he'd still be a lazy, unemployed, immature slob living with a crazy domineering mother in a pile of barbage. This idea that Chris has been "broken" assumes that he'd be somehow better off if he hadn't been trolled. In reality, no he wouldn't. Bob would still be dead, Sonichu would still be a failed webcomic and the chances are that the "Sweethearts" would instead be a string of IRL women who made the mistake of being kind. Maybe he'd be less paranoid, but that's about it. I'm not saying this makes trolling a noble thing, just that a lot of the anti-trolling crowd tend to characterise Chris as a poor, blameless simpleton rather than the horny, egotistical manbaby he is.

 

[champthom]

I might be rehashing what I've said elsewhere, but I'll chime in.

For starters, I don't mind people having this discussion, as long as it's civil and not name calling. Also I don't mind as it's in this thread and it's not derailing existing threads.

From the get go, I wasn't really keen on the idea that Thetan was impersonating people Chris knew. It's an extremely easy way to get Chris's trust, because he never seems to question the validity of these people or it's easy to disprove his doubt ("C'mon Chris, if you were really my friend, you wouldn't be asking me this") and it could have backfired badly. I believe at one point, she was impersonating Mimms, who found out about it and was pissed because he wants nothing to do with Chris anymore. Mimms is doing his own thing and Chris is threatening him because he thinks Mimms is provoking him.

I feel like using that sort of tactic is very unfair, it's like hunting deer except you're using an ATV to chase the deer around or doing something like setting out bait and shooting them as they eat. It gets what you want but it's very unsportly.

The Truman show analogy is very apt, though I feel it's been going on a lot longer than people realize. I think the recent trolls took it to a whole new level, in a bad way, in that it wasn't just one person pretending to be Chris's friend but rather one person impersonating an entire social network of people. I remember there was an idea someone had that one summer, I think it was after Ivy died or whatever, we'd create a fake social network of friends just to see how he'd react. But at least it was a bunch of people who would each be a person, not like one person being dozens of different personas. I couldn't follow with the private discussion forum because it was like every day, there was a new persona made up to confirm the existence of the other personas.

I think the only strict guidelines the people I've known involved in Chris trolling is that we never use Chris for personal profit. We could have easily set it up so content was only accessible to people who paid a fine and we could have easily made money off it. We instead choose to release it freely. The people most involved in Chris trolling might not be totally normal but I think they're very modest in terms of wanting attention for it. The people who actually troll Chris actually want as little attention as possible for their efforts. I've had major Chris trolls ask me to take down their CWCki pages because they don't want attention drawn to them. People don't seem to understand that if someone claims to have known Chris or have trolled Chris, they're probably full of shit.

Quick aside - the other thing is - what constitutes "trolling"? I think Chris defined it as something like "saying anything negative or thinking anything negative" about him. That's an extremely broad stroke. Someone going on here to say "You know, Chris is kinda fat" or just thinking it is by this definition as much as a troll as someone who calls him up to yell "JULAY" or someone who calls him up to tell Chris he's going to get murdered in his sleep. Technically, I think only a handful of people are actively trolling him. Is pretending to be his friend under false pretenses really trolling though? Obviously it's deceiving, but is it the same as trying to provoke him? The only people who at least fit the traditional categorization of trolls are probably the ween kids who call his house up to yell random things at him like "I'M BATMAN." Truth be told, the most active trolls are actually the biggest white knights in a sense and they're actually the only people who care about him. I mean, after his house burned down, we sent him a huge ass package with gift cards to places he eats and shops, plus even some new art supplies. His "friend" Ken sent him a can of sardines. Did Anna do anything? Anna claims to be Chris's best friend but does she ever really do anything? It's not like she actually visits Chris or listens to Chris when he has problems. Chris might consider you a troll if you tell him he needs to seek psychiatric help but that's actually advice he needs to hear but doesn't want to.

Personally, I think the best way to troll Chris is to not troll Chris at all. I think his stuff is more amusing than when he's poked and prodded. Failing that, just call him "gay." Just send him letters that say "you are gay, Chris." He'll be ranting and screaming over that. If you write him some well thought out letter about how he needs to change but you end it with "you are gay," the only thing he will read is "you are gay" and scream about that.

Some people try to frame trolling as a matter of ethics. A-Logging is a thing because people think that if Chris is a bad person, it's okay to harass him. Early Chris was labeled as a pedophile and I think that was because there wasn't a lot about Chris so if it was framed he was a pedophile, that would justify trolling him. The popular thing then was to troll him because he's a homophobe which led to arguments as absurd as "Well I like molesting little girls BUT AT LEAST I'M NOT CHRIS-CHAN, HE HATES GAY PEOPLE." I've come to terms that I am a bad person for my activity with Chris and I will probably burn in hell, if it exists. But dammit, seeing him rant about how much Sonic having blue arms is pretty damn funny.

 

[Karen]

Then there are the one who got through. It was absolutely trolling back in the golden days of Christory, but now due to how hard (or bafflingly easy) it is to actually get directly to Chris and have him respond, I'm not sure what the goal or end game is or if it's really "trolling". Renee tried to push positive things into his life, but did so under deception. I'm still not sure how the whole Catherine thing started except that they've met in person. I have no idea what the goal was there or if Chris decided it was something and that's that.

With Chris being exclusively on Facebook now, it seems easier than ever for anyone (weens included) to contact him. Sure, they may not make as much of an impact as the good old trolls from 07 to 09, but it certainly shows the effect of trolling on Chris.

Chris seems to have a lot of trust issues now because of it, for the exception of people who have been close to him before the internet (Anna, Barb) was a big part of his life. I know most lolcows look their names up, but I get a feeling that Chris looks himself up/ looks at the Cwcki more than we might think, because he gets incredibly paranoid at some points.

I got to talk to Chris a couple of times through email (back when he used to use the AOL one) and besides him sperging about whatever game he was playing at the time he said he'd was getting a lot of stress from the trolls, but looking back...can we really blame him? A lot of people with low self-esteem get stressed when someone says something mean about it, but Chris thinks he has an entire army of trolls after him.

Of course people will use the argument that with his massive ego he really doesn't care because he thinks he has an army of followers, but just because someone has a large ego doesn't mean they aren't incredibly self conscious or trying to cover up self-perceived flaws (autism).

I think he's learned to sort out most weens, but most forms of organized trolling against Chris is disturbing to me, because everyone must seem like a lie to him, since trolls have started invading his personal life (IRL) as well.

 

[Paladin]

The really weird thing about trolling Chris is, unlike many people who have been trolled or bullied, the trolling Chris has been given would have been legitimately useful and constructive had he chosen to listen to it. Most bullies would be content to do things like A-log their victims or do really disgusting things like bluespike would have, but Chris had people like Clyde Cash or Kacey's Dad would actually give the guy very real advice and information without using any insulting language or tone.

I remember listening to a radio discussion with Harry Partridge that said that he didn't like the trolls because he wants to see Chris Chan do his own stuff, like give the video presentation to 'business people' about possible Sonichu Franchise, or how Chris would reveal embarrassing information about himself like when he drinks his own semen (and the insane reasoning behind it) or how he not only craps his briefs, but thinks it's perfectly normal and that everyone has 'accidents' like those once in a while (I think he also mentioned in the video that he was a healthy and 'growing' individual, even though he was around 27 or 29 at the time and can't 'grow' anymore, unless it's in girth). I'm actually one of those that agree with that slightly. Even though the trolls did make him produce gems like his power and anger videos, I think it's just him doing his own thing while clearly being delusional about what he's doing is the most fun part of Chris being Chris.

 

[P-Logic]

We could have easily set it up so content was only accessible to people who paid a fine and we could have easily made money off it. We instead choose to release it freely.

It wouldn't have been possible for you to do this. For one thing, someone would have paid the $10 or whatever and then just leaked the content on /cwc/. Secondly, in pre-Bitcoin days, it was very difficult to accept money anonymously. You might have found yourself the unwilling recipient of more attention and scrutiny than you are comfortable with.

Lastly, and most importantly, all of the most amusing content was released free of charge by Chris on his own YouTube accounts.

So to be honest, and with the greatest of civility intended, I think you are completely taking the piss to try to suggest that you and the rest of the PVCC are somehow our generous benefactors by releasing Chris content free of charge. It's a disgraceful line of bullshit, quite frankly.

 

[HG 400]

Interfering in his life, at this point, is an extremely dark and disturbing thing to do. I really question the mentality of those who do it. It is, in the most literal sense of the word, sick.

Spoiler

13:12 -!- P-Logic [~Avery@phologisti.con] has joined #sonichu
13:12 < cows2> ulala's favorite webcomic
13:12 < P-Logic> Sup kids
13:12 <~canine> but yeah, i think that once you open one, it starts a session and that session either remains open until you close the whole browser
13:12 <~canine> or maybe until you close all the incognito tabs
13:12 < cows2> gotcha
13:12 <~canine> not sure though
13:12 < cows2> I never worry about that as I am the only one who looks at my computer
13:12 <~canine> yeah, same
13:13 < P-Logic> I am worried the police might inspect mine one day
13:13 <~canine> what would you be doing that that's a problem?
13:13 < cows2> ^
13:13 < P-Logic> Trolling Chris
13:13 < cows2> nigga get out
13:13 < paulguy> I'm pretty sure incognito windows are isolated profiles.
13:13 <~canine> the police don't give a shit about that
13:13 < paulguy> read-only
13:13 < P-Logic> I live in the UK though
13:13 < P-Logic> People get arrested for saying harsh things on Twitter here
13:14 <~canine> paulguy: maybe, but i seem to see some consistency that would only happen if all the incognito windows had one single profile
13:14 < cows2> if anyone is truly worried about the police getting on their files
13:14 <~canine> P-Logic: shit sucks
13:14 < cows2> truecrypt + hidden drive
13:14 < cows2> no one will ever know it is there
13:14 < P-Logic> Yeah I truecrypt all my Chris content and only go to the CWCki via tor
13:14 <~canine> goddamn, that's nuts
13:15 < P-Logic> Well it wouldn't be a serious crime canine
13:15 < P-Logic> The problem is
13:15 < P-Logic> The reaction of the media
13:15 <~canine> that it's a crime at all is crazy
13:15 < cows2> that is some spergy shit P-Logic
13:15 <~canine> what cows2 said
13:15 < cows2> you are doing absolutely nothing but visiting a site
13:16 <~canine> the media here would maybe put it on the 5 o'clock news in some little station in charlottesville
13:16 <~canine> that no one would pay attention to
13:16 < cows2> ^
13:16 < P-Logic> If there was a P-LogicWiki I'd want the police to intervene
13:16 <~canine> eh, chris' stuff is public
13:16 < cows2> I mean what is viginia going to do
13:16 <~canine> like he's a minor celebrity
13:16 < P-Logic> So I can't really complain about the law
13:16 < cows2> have the UK extradite you?
13:16 <~canine> no privacy rights there
13:16 < P-Logic> Yeah
13:17 < P-Logic> It's all a grey area and I don't want to have to consult a lawyer about exactly what is legal and what isn't
13:17 < P-Logic> But if I had, say, a public blog, and I wrote something harsh about Chris on it
13:17 < P-Logic> That would be a crime for sure
13:17 <~canine> i'm amazed
13:17 < cows2> there are just a handful of people who truecrypt things like entire drives
13:18 < P-Logic> Check this out
13:18 < cows2> either you are doing something brazenly illegal, you are richard stalman, or you are just paranoid the government is after you
13:18 < P-Logic> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19059127
13:18 <~canine> haha, yeah
13:18 < cows2> yeah
13:18 < cows2> so, don't message chris
13:18 < cows2> problem solved
13:19 < P-Logic> Nah it's vital that I do, I'm in the middle of a big saga with him
13:19 <~canine> huh?
13:19 < P-Logic> Yeah I've got him on the hook about something, been doing it for a couple of months now
13:20 < cows2> yeah I am sure
13:20 <~canine> huh
13:20 <~canine> there's only one person like that
13:20 <~canine> and i didn't think they were in the UK
13:20 < P-Logic> Well I haven't told anyone who I don't know very well about it
13:20 <~canine> nah, if chris knows about it, i know about it
13:21 < P-Logic> Are you Chris?
13:21 < cows2> yes
13:21 < cows2> canine is chris
13:21 < P-Logic> haha
13:21 <~canine> nah, but i could go out for lunch with chris if i wanted to
13:21 <~canine> for example
13:21 < P-Logic> That's interesting. I guess you like to preserve that by not trolling him right?
13:21 <~canine> well, after bob died, we stopped trolling him because chris was mourning
13:21 <~canine> and past that, it just got kinda boring
13:22 <~canine> i mean, we keep up on the updates, but we don't bother doing anything ourselves
13:22 < P-Logic> Yeah for sure, people move on etc.
13:22 < P-Logic> It was definitely tough to get him to even respond to me
13:22 < P-Logic> I had to put quite a bit of effort into the supporting material
13:23 < P-Logic> I work for an advertising agency and I got some of the guys in the studio involved, to create stuff
13:23 <~canine> huh, that doesn't sound right
13:24 <~canine> how many interactions have you had?
13:24 < P-Logic> Hang on let me check how many emails
13:24 <~canine> oh no
13:24 <~canine> either you're lying or that wasn't chris
13:24 <~canine> chris would've mentioned that
13:24 < P-Logic> It was definitely Chris
13:24 <~canine> nah, there are lots of fake ones out there
13:24 < P-Logic> There's been 108 emails
13:25 <~canine> i mean, i can ask chris sometime
13:25 < P-Logic> Fake ones with his face though?
13:25 <~canine> yeah
13:25 <~canine> and tons of people falling for it
13:25 < P-Logic> Nah don't do that
13:25 < P-Logic> I mean, I have deliberately not told you any details to be safe
13:25 < P-Logic> But, I don't want this to blow before the payoff
13:25 < P-Logic> Don't worry, you'll find out about it when it's done
13:26 <~canine> it's not him (or again, you're lying)
13:26 < P-Logic> It's definitely him. I have proof of that. I dunno what to tell you man, maybe he doesn't tell you absolutely everything
13:26 <~canine> which of his emails were you contacting him through?
13:27 < P-Logic> ChrisChanSonichu@aol.com
13:27 < P-Logic> I've had calls with him too
13:27 < P-Logic> So unless it's someone doing a killer impression
13:27 < P-Logic> Now you see why I need to be careful with the legal side of things
13:29 <~canine> yeah, nah, you're lying
13:29 < cows2> I will eat my hat if you could provide a single chris email
13:29 <~canine> fatty confirmed it
13:29 <~canine> heh
13:30 < P-Logic> Wait a second, you called him up and said what exactly?
13:30 <~canine> didn't call him, messaged him
13:30 < P-Logic> What did you say? I am concerned now
13:30 <~canine> me: Hey chris, you get any emails
13:30 < P-Logic> I was kinda telling you this on the assumption that, y'know, you wouldn't go and immediately tell Chris
13:30 <~canine> him: no I don't use email anymore
13:31 < cows2> *phantom jerk*
13:31 <~canine> him: except from people i know
13:31 < P-Logic> Alright, that's cool. Thank fuck for that. Ok from now on just assume I am lying
13:31 <~canine> no, i know you're lying
13:31 < cows2> Not going to be a stretch there
13:31 < P-Logic> That's ideal
13:32 < P-Logic> Just don't talk to Chris about it anymore
13:32 < P-Logic> Jeez
13:32 <~canine> ?
13:33 < P-Logic> I shit myself there man, haha
13:34 < P-Logic> So is someone else doing something with him then?
13:34 < cows2> fatty doesn't do anything
13:34 < cows2> just mopes around town
13:34 < cows2> playing with legos
13:34 < P-Logic> Seems a bit A-Loggy to refer to him as "fatty", no?
13:35 <~canine> nah, that's been a nickname for him for awhile
13:35 < cows2> the mere fact you used the term alogging
13:35 < cows2> means I don't want to talk to you anymore
13:35 <~canine> heh
13:36 < P-Logic> Canine: Yeah I've seen it used now and then but I always thought it was a bit too pejorative
13:36 <~canine> eh, alogging is usually a consistent thing
13:36 < P-Logic> cows2: That's tragic. I am sorry I have fallen so far on your respect meter.
13:36 <~canine> like, specifically going on about how awful a person chris is
13:37 <~canine> regularly
13:37 < cows2> I hate chris and I want to punch him in the face, he gives a bad name to autistics /sneed
13:37 < cows2> that stuff
13:37 < P-Logic> I prefer it when he just speaks for himself, he usually shows exactly what type of person he is
13:37 <~canine> yeah, that
13:38 < P-Logic> Like many, I question the motives of those who feel the need to hammer the point home
13:39 < cows2> I feel the need of sadness because I forgot my oyster crackers today
13:39 < cows2> now how am I suppose to eat my soup
13:39 < cows2> like a poor person without anything grain inside of it
13:40 <~canine> that sucks dude
13:40 < cows2> I might run by the store and just get some normal crackers
13:42 < P-Logic> canine: What's your opinion of the rumour that Chris is doing much, much better in his attitude since the 14BC fire?
13:43 <~canine> uhh well, back in the day, chris' mood would vary
13:43 <~canine> sometimes he seemed pretty content and sometimes he seemed pretty depressed
13:44 <~canine> he was depressed, but he always had hope that made him seem a lot happier
13:44 <~canine> he's the same nowadays, just without hope
13:44 <~canine> and the fire didn't really change anything in that area
13:44 < P-Logic> That's a shame
13:45 <~canine> eh, his hope before was derived from the fact that chris didn't understand reality
13:45 <~canine> he's finding out the truth about his life
13:45 <~canine> he thought he could sit on his ass and get a pretty girlfriend
13:45 <~canine> that was his hope before
13:45 < P-Logic> I heard something about an email where he seemed to feel better that had been distributed privately
13:46 <~canine> sounds like a rumor
13:46 <~canine> well, and bad interpretation of such an email
13:46 -!- Cornelia [~C@BABA6787.9AE67537.719BF6A7.IP] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:46 < P-Logic> Yeah maybe it was the latter, it came from Null from the CWCki forums so I don't think it was total BS, but maybe an over simplification.
13:47 < P-Logic> So you don't reckon he's any better since the fire?
13:47 <~canine> uhh, he's out of 14BC?
13:47 < P-Logic> I figured maybe the change of environment has been good for him on some level
13:47 <~canine> better air, i suppose
13:47 < P-Logic> Yeah, that would be good for anyone. But you don't think that's reflected in his behaviour or attitude?
13:47 <~canine> not consistently, no
13:48 <~canine> maybe they just saw an email that was more terse than his normal one
13:48 < P-Logic> Yeah
13:48 < P-Logic> Do you have any hope for him?
13:48 <~canine> he might live a tolerable life post-barb
13:49 <~canine> depending on how long she lasts
13:49 < P-Logic> The better environment might give her a bit more longevity
13:49 <~canine> eh, slightly
13:49 <~canine> her health isn't good regardless
13:49 < cows2> you can't tell with old people
13:49 < cows2> they just go when they go
13:50 < P-Logic> How old is she? Like 75?
13:50 <~canine> but i guess people with terrible health sometimes surprise you and last to 100
13:50 <~canine> while the guy with great health his whole life kicks it at 65
13:50 < cows2> my grandma had that problem
13:50 < P-Logic> Yeah it's crazy like that
13:50 < cows2> just give death the middle finger and then dies in her sleep peacefully
13:54 < cows2> lunch time
13:54 < cows2> lates
14:31 -!- P-Logic [~Avery@phologisti.con] has left #sonichu []
15:50 < cows2> well that's over
15:50 < cows2> oh and he left
15:50 <~canine> yep
15:50 < cows2> off to troll chris I guess