Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Coldgrip]

Not really what I was getting at. My point was that trolls cannot help Chris, not whether Chris would engage with professionals. I assume though from your argument that you agree that "helpful" trolling is pointless?

Furthermore, even if there were no possibility Chris would benefit from either method, professional help


Have you considered that a qualified professional might have access to other options that an assortment of internet trolls have not considered or had access to?

Have you considered that unless Chris wants to change nothing a professional does is going to make a difference? And will essentially be as effective as the trolls have been?

Also - is it possible that your armchair diagnosis of Chris might in some places be inaccurate?

Sure I have. Can you point out where? Also, have you considered that you might be wrong?

Both options are bad if they prevent the hungry man from finding a reliable source of good food.

What if that hungry man doesn't want to go out and find food and believes that people should just hand him what he wants? Then what?

Chris's interactions with trolls come with a big opportunity cost - while he is being led along by people pretending to meet his dream sweetheart criteria, he is not learning from experience that the things he is doing will not translate to the real world...

And it's the trolls fault for him not learning? You can only blame autism for so much.

...not being forced through real experience to alter his ridiculous standards and behaviours.

That's the thing though, to Chris it was real. And after seeing how he treats people how do you think a real girlfriend would treat him or react to his antics? I guarantee she'd be a lot less compassionate then the trolls have been.

In a way, the troll gave Chris a chance to examine his own behavior and how he'd react in a relationship. Instead of reflecting on his own actions (which he is capable of) and maybe realizing that he's got a little growing up to do he chose to pass the buck instead.

People A-Log way too often and I just enjoy pointing it out.

Here are some examples of A-Logging from the CWCKI article:

“
Obviously you've never heard of what he calls other people who are autistic, and that he calls people with Aspergers(such as myself) "fakers". he doesn't deserve some, he deserves everything for giving us a bad name. The trolls are also doing what they do to him for a good reason. it's not about the autism to them, but more of that he's a moron who is evil reincarnate and deserves to go back to hell. I don't believe you know what all CWC has done to us on youtube.
„
—GamerXZ0, in a YouTube comment on one of A-Log's videos.

“
29 years ago today, satan was born and molded into the fucktardian PENIS we know & despise today! Should i ever see him i'm gonna destroy him worse than new jack did to mass transit!
„
—ISLAVERDE29, another YouTube comment on one of A-Log's videos.

“
Hooray he's dead. Now he'lll be spending his eternity in hell while I go piss on his grave.
„
—mxc82, again, another YouTube comment on one of A-Log's videos, referring to Bob Chandler's death.

“
Mostly because I was hoping the video would end with him getting shot dead. by the Ruckersville police. You can imagine how disappointed I am to find him still alive and kicking when the video is over.
„
—CKO92 on YouTube reacting over Chris's recent video.

“
Chris Chan u are the single worst human being who ever live. If it wasn't for u fellow autistics and Sonic OC creators like me would be respected by the world. What you have done is unforgivable. I hope Barb dies and you spend the last minutes of your life crying about how your a pathetic failure fuck you
„
—OfficialSteroidHedgy, in a comment in Chris's YouTube account.

“
I hope you are ashamed that a retarded autistic person (just like yourself) killed 20 innocent kids....all autistic people should be wiped from the earth and aborted before birth since you are all evil i wish the worst fates that heaven and hell can bring upon you and all the other autistic pieces of shit like you
„
—RealReplyGirl4Ever, in a comment in Chris's YouTube account- comparing Chris to a man who shot up an elementary school, and advocating genocide.

 

[P-Logic]

I love how this thread's hardly seen any discussion since we found out about our hero jailing himself. I think a lot of misgivings that some people had are probably gone now.

I'm not posting about trolling ethics anymore for several reasons:

Firstly, when I found out that Chris's "open relationship" was actually his idea, it made me regard Thetan and Skyraider's actions to be less cruel than I initially thought. I still think their actions reflect very poorly on their characters, but it's not quite as severe psychological torture as I previously understood.

But most importantly, it's pointless, boring, and it just derails threads.

Even this thread, the one that is supposed to be the answer to thread derailing , was derailed and became purely about personal attacks against me for several pages.

Let's be honest, this forum is about attacking people who don't adhere to social norms. So if someone doesn't adhere to the social norm here of hating Chris and wanting him to suffer, then it becomes a lynch mob. This forum has a lynch mob mentality that suffocates and degrades debate. That's not a problem though, this is a lolcow forum and isn't to be taken seriously. So I've got no problem censoring my opinions, to keep the forum fun and lighthearted for everyone, including me.

Chris's recent trouble with the law is nothing to do with it. It hasn't revealed anything new.

 

[warongiygas]

I'm not posting about trolling ethics anymore for several reasons:

Firstly, when I found out that Chris's "open relationship" was actually his idea, it made me regard Thetan and Skyraider's actions to be less cruel than I initially thought. I still think their actions reflect very poorly on their characters, but it's not quite as severe psychological torture as I previously understood.

But most importantly, it's pointless, boring, and it just derails threads.

Even this thread, the one that is supposed to be the answer to thread derailing , was derailed and became purely about personal attacks against me for several pages.

Let's be honest, this forum is about attacking people who don't adhere to social norms. So if someone doesn't adhere to the social norm here of hating Chris and wanting him to suffer, then it becomes a lynch mob. This forum has a lynch mob mentality that suffocates and degrades debate. That's not a problem though, this is a lolcow forum and isn't to be taken seriously. So I've got no problem censoring my opinions, to keep the forum fun and lighthearted for everyone, including me.

Chris's recent trouble with the law is nothing to do with it. It hasn't revealed anything new.

I like a lot of the things you say (maybe not in this post,) but you take shit way too personally dude.

 

[Honeyrabbit]

I'm not posting about trolling ethics anymore for several reasons:

Firstly, when I found out that Chris's "open relationship" was actually his idea, it made me regard Thetan and Skyraider's actions to be less cruel than I initially thought. I still think their actions reflect very poorly on their characters, but it's not quite as severe psychological torture as I previously understood.

But most importantly, it's pointless, boring, and it just derails threads.

Even this thread, the one that is supposed to be the answer to thread derailing , was derailed and became purely about personal attacks against me for several pages.

Let's be honest, this forum is about attacking people who don't adhere to social norms. So if someone doesn't adhere to the social norm here of hating Chris and wanting him to suffer, then it becomes a lynch mob. This forum has a lynch mob mentality that suffocates and degrades debate. That's not a problem though, this is a lolcow forum and isn't to be taken seriously. So I've got no problem censoring my opinions, to keep the forum fun and lighthearted for everyone, including me.

Chris's recent trouble with the law is nothing to do with it. It hasn't revealed anything new.

You've thought about it way too much

 

[Le Bateleur]

snip

My basic point is that a professional is possibly able to help Chris, and unlikely to harm him. Trolls are not able to help Chris, and have a history of harming him. Until professional help is tried, how can you be certain it won't work or Chris will reject it?

I would suggest that your armchair diagnosis of Chris is wrong at the point that you presume to know an exhaustive and exclusive list of his motivations.

I am always open to the possibility I may be wrong, particularly in cases where I have very little data to work from. However, I would maintain that I don't armchair diagnose Chris, at least not to the extent that you and other Discussion posters tend to.

Look at my argument that you initially responded to - I argue from a general case. The criteria for being able to help Chris that I set out are exactly those I believe apply to anyone with mental health needs. I suppose there's an assumption that Chris's needs are not unique to him, but I am comfortable in assuming this.

I really don't think it's possible to argue that any troll relationship somehow simulates reality. Personally, I think any woman who would be compatible with Chris will have learning difficulties similar to his own. Yes, he's said he wouldn't consider it - but he also claimed he wanted no fat chicks but was clearly interested in that obese girl the trolls set him up with once.

 

[P-Logic]

I like a lot of the things you say (maybe not in this post,) but you take shit way too personally dude.

Thanks for the compliment. But honestly, this isn't personal. I've never cared about people here making personal attacks against me. As I say, this isn't a place to be taken seriously, at least in my opinion. I was just pointing out that it's not exactly conducive to interesting debate. And, just to be clear, I don't think that's a problem with this forum. It's not intended for debating ethics.

You've thought about it way too much

This is the type of post that proves my point. No offense against you personally.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

snip

Step 1: Admit that your poorly-crafted arguments weren't getting anywhere and thus you should stop
Step 2: Continue said admission with a paragraph that is just more of the same backhanded "you're bad people and I'm better than you but I'm humble about it" shit everyone got tired of real quick
Step 3: Get confused about why you're not appreciated like you think you should be and take it way too personally when Alec comes along and tells you to just shut the fuck up already

 

[Le Bateleur]

Thanks for the compliment. But honestly, this isn't personal. I've never cared about people here making personal attacks against me. As I say, this isn't a place to be taken seriously, at least in my opinion. I was just pointing out that it's not exactly conducive to interesting debate. And, just to be clear, I don't think that's a problem with this forum. It's not intended for debating ethics.

This is the type of post that proves my point. No offense against you personally.

With the greatest of respect, I think it's likely your personality which caused the negative reaction rather than your opinions.

There are people who are broadly on your side of the argument who haven't suffered personal attacks.

 

[Honeyrabbit]

This is the type of post that proves my point. No offense against you personally.

What point? You didn't make a point, you're just stating your opinions as fact and trying to make it sound like you're a better person than every other Christorian.

 

[Kosher Dill]

My basic point is that a professional is possibly able to help Chris

I'm not sure why you say that. The latest batch of trolls used stronger motivators on Chris than any professional could, and got no results in making him do anything he didn't already want to do. It was a battle just to get him to take out that stupid piercing that was literally killing him.

The way I see it, there are only 3 advantages a professional has:
1. A full medical history. Maybe, just maybe, there's something in there that is the Rosetta Stone to helping Chris.
2. The ability to prescribe drugs, in the case of a psychiatrist. This has been tried already, but maybe they just didn't hit on the golden combination of drugs that would do the trick.
3. If Chris is seeing this professional in gaol: the ability to physically compel him to attend treatment. He would still be as unwilling to change as ever, but maybe this professional could worm his way into Chris's mind Hannibal Lecter-style given enough time.

So... yes, there are other approaches a professional could take, but I'm not really convinced how helpful they would be.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

I'm not sure why you say that. The latest batch of trolls used stronger motivators on Chris than any professional could, and got no results in making him do anything he didn't already want to do. It was a battle just to get him to take out that stupid piercing that was literally killing him.

You're saying a circle of Internet-savvy Teens (that grew up to be Internet-savvy Twenty-Somethings) can get better results than people with years of study under their belts. A shrink might not have done better, but said circle could have done much worse.

The way I see it, there are only 3 advantages a professional has:
1. A full medical history. Maybe, just maybe, there's something in there that is the Rosetta Stone to helping Chris.
2. The ability to prescribe drugs, in the case of a psychiatrist. This has been tried already, but maybe they just didn't hit on the golden combination of drugs that would do the trick.
3. If Chris is seeing this professional in gaol: the ability to physically compel him to attend treatment. He would still be as unwilling to change as ever, but maybe this professional could worm his way into Chris's mind Hannibal Lecter-style given enough time.

All of which would be huge.

So... yes, there are other approaches a professional could take, but I'm not really convinced how helpful they would be.

We literally might never know, given that Chris actively avoids anyone who could actually attempt to help him. He has spent more time talking to individual trolls than he has spoken to shrinks in his entire life.

 

[P-Logic]

snip

Damn! You seem angry Alec. I know the Foxdick Forums is important to you because it's the only place on Earth where you have anything approaching influence or respect, but you should get things in perspective a bit.

There are people who are broadly on your side of the argument who haven't suffered personal attacks.

That's true, but I don't think they've managed to convince anyone of anything either. If they are finding it productive and interesting then good luck to them, but I found it otherwise.

The personal attacks aren't a big deal, I just mentioned them as an example of how I don't think it's worth discussing ethics here anymore because even this thread can be derailed.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Damn! You seem angry Alec. I know the Foxdick Forums is important to you because it's the only place on Earth where you have anything approaching influence or respect, but you should get things in perspective a bit.

I'm impressed you haven't PM'ed me yet to tell me about how you're a "psychologist" like you did with Thetan.

 

[P-Logic]

I'm impressed you haven't PM'ed me yet to tell me about how you're a "psychologist" like you did with Thetan.

We all have to earn money Alec.

 

[Coldgrip]

My basic point is that a professional is possibly able to help Chris, and unlikely to harm him. Trolls are not able to help Chris, and have a history of harming him.

Barring Bluespike, who did go too far, can you name one that has caused him harm?

Until professional help is tried, how can you be certain it won't work or Chris will reject it?

Because Chris wants other people to fix his problems for him, not put the effort into fixing himself. We have an entire wiki that shows that.

I would suggest that your armchair diagnosis of Chris is wrong at the point that you presume to know an exhaustive and exclusive list of his motivations.

His motivations have been documented in the CWCKI and discussed here on the forums. He has Three: Money, china, threat of immediate consequences. If you have some new information regarding Chris behaviors or motivations please enlighten me.

I am always open to the possibility I may be wrong, particularly in cases where I have very little data to work from. However, I would maintain that I don't armchair diagnose Chris, at least not to the extent that you and other Discussion posters tend to.

No, you make assumptions that Chris will respond or even want to put effort into bettering himself. Once again, Christory shows he doesn't want to.

Look at my argument that you initially responded to - I argue from a general case. The criteria for being able to help Chris that I set out are exactly those I believe apply to anyone with mental health needs. I suppose there's an assumption that Chris's needs are not unique to him, but I am comfortable in assuming this.

Your arguments seemed to of been about Chris specifically. If you're are saying that other people would not benefit from the trolling Chris has had I'd agree with you. But I'd also like to add that other people aren't Chris, and that I'm talking specifically about him.

I really don't think it's possible to argue that any troll relationship somehow simulates reality. Personally, I think any woman who would be compatible with Chris will have learning difficulties similar to his own. Yes, he's said he wouldn't consider it - but he also claimed he wanted no fat chicks but was clearly interested in that obese girl the trolls set him up with once.

And what makes you think he'd treat that girl any better than his trollsweets? For that matter what makes you think her legal guardians or parents would approve of Chris? You can argue that the fake girlfriends didn't do any good for him, but after seeing how Chris acted towards them (or how he treats people in general), why would you want to inflict him on someone who has learning difficulties similar to himself? That actually seems very cruel.

An intelligent person once said about Chris:

TBH I don't see Chris having a great ending, he's an ass and a bigot, that's what makes him so funny and also so tragic.

I'd have to agree. And when someone acts like an ass and bigot as Chris has, they bring their troubles upon themselves.

So let me just state once again that unless the trolls violate his rights or cause him physical harm, I see nothing wrong with it. After all, as the old saying goes; Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me repeatedly with the same trick over and over again because I refuse to learn or take responsibility for my action, and I just might be Christian Weston-Chandler.

 

[KillerBob]

The personal attacks aren't a big deal, I just mentioned them as an example of how I don't think it's worth discussing ethics here anymore because even this thread can be derailed.

And yet you are still here...

 

[Honeyrabbit]

Damn! You seem angry Alec. I know the Foxdick Forums is important to you because it's the only place on Earth where you have anything approaching influence or respect, but you should get things in perspective a bit.

"u mad cuz u lame irl" - P-Logic

 

[Kosher Dill]

You're saying a circle of Internet-savvy Teens (that grew up to be Internet-savvy Twenty-Somethings) can get better results than people with years of study under their belts.

Well, not "better" results since nobody has really gotten any results at all. But... well, let's put it this way. Do you think there's anything in the Magic Ph.D Bag of Tricks that would motivate Chris as much as the prospect of escaping Barb, marrying a newer, fresher caregiver, and having his daughter? Whatever the professionals try has to be more effective than that.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

Well, not "better" results since nobody has really gotten any results at all. But... well, let's put it this way. Do you think there's anything in the Magic Ph.D Bag of Tricks that would motivate Chris as much as the prospect of escaping Barb, marrying a newer, fresher caregiver, and having his daughter? Whatever the professionals try has to be more effective than that.

I wouldn't know, because I have no formal training in abnormal psychology.

 

[warongiygas]

Well, not "better" results since nobody has really gotten any results at all. But... well, let's put it this way. Do you think there's anything in the Magic Ph.D Bag of Tricks that would motivate Chris as much as the prospect of escaping Barb, marrying a newer, fresher caregiver, and having his daughter? Whatever the professionals try has to be more effective than that.

If a professional were to determine that Chris's environment is abusive and ultimately unhealthy (which in my opinion, it totally is,) they could take Chris away from Barb. Not saying it's likely, but it's a power that none of the trolls have.