Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

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I think it's shameful how so many on this board kept calling out Thetan ect.. for being terrible ween trolls. Even after it's become obvious they were likely the "nicest" trolls, ones who went above and beyond to try and help Chris many still cling to this. I really hate how so many (particularly all our newly minted white knights) abuse the terms 'ween' and a-log to attack people.

If only we had the "no overboard bitching about Chris trolls rule" like on the jace board.

Id probably prefer "trolls" keep in contact with Chris because without that we would have far less info. It's absurd how people attack Thetan for contacting Chris the other day.
There are several users on this board that love to compare themselves with Chris and hope the worst for him (A-Logging) but no one has ever accused Thetan of being one of those people, from what I have seen.
 
Personally, I think it's most acceptable when Chris is (was) in generally good spirits and was producing a lot of content (comics, videos, etc.). In the heyday, the trolls were often reacting to things Chris said/did in videos and then Chris was reacting to what the trolls were doing. It was a closed loop, it was funny, and the interaction Chris (who would otherwise just be a complete shut-in) was receiving outweighed the "making fun of him" aspect.

I think Bob's death broke that loop and those days are now long gone. Chris appears to be circling the drain mentally and emotionally and rather than bounce back as he would before, any trolling (or anything he perceives as trolling) further wounds him. He's producing much less content, and what he does produce is always downtrodden and sad. The medallions are humorous, but I don't think they're sustainable, and will end soon, especially with the move coming/underway.

I want everything to turn around and return to the golden days of THAT IS MY HOUSE but I don't think that will happen. I think we should really be considering how much our continued attention to minutia and interference in Chris's life is persistently hurting him more than making us laugh. As much as I hate to say it, as I used to laugh until I cried many times when things were good, I think it may be time to let Chris live his life quietly in the hopes that he can somehow better himself. Trolling, at this point in Chris's experience, is unethical.

Bob kept it all together. He was there to bail Barb and Chris out, usually financially, since they hadn't begun committing crimes until after he died. Their lives fell apart more or less immediately after Bob left. It seems to me that he kept them in line in more ways than just financially. On the other hand, Barb's hoarding- arguably what hastened Bob's death- was progressing steadily while Bob was alive, so I am in no way suggesting that he was doing any more than just postponing the inevitable.

I too miss the old days. It's not just that the old ways were funnier, it's also that the CWC of today is depressing and morbid. Before he was an extreme symptom of the American (or more broadly, western) dependence on TV, video games, and film (and another motivation for me not to own a TV, or game console or watch movies...). Now he's just a disgusting joke. He cross-dresses, begs for fucking Legos while living in poverty, and despite his entire damn world collapsing around him, he is motivated to action by Sega changing the color of Sonic's arms. Not by the fact that his entire life is a wreck, or that his elderly mother has terrible living conditions. He does the same old shit when it's not funny anymore. And now, he's graduated to using the closest thing to violence that he is capable of. I'm not A-Logging or blaming anybody. At this point, I don't know who to blame. He obviously had/has shitty parents, and obviously can be held accountable for some of his actions, but I cannot place blame. I would like (due to my own convictions and agenda, admittedly) to use Chris as an admittedly extreme example to further my case against video games/movies/TV and public school, or to bring attention to the seriousness of autism, but I cannot fully blame even those things. At this point, it would be more helpful for Chris to just be institutionalized.

I don't come on this forum much, because it's not fun. You get called an A-Log or Anna for every other post you make, and every other thread seems to get locked. I still read the CWCki, though, but those times will end too. When he is imprisoned or (I hope) institutionalized, I may too part ways with the CWCki. I came late to the CWC community, having been here for a mere (almost) three years, and I have seen nothing but a downward slope. I tried to laugh at him, I tried to hate him, and I tried to feel sorry for him, but in the end, his story is really a microcosm and parable of societal decline.
 
Who has attacked Thetan and is not drowning in negative ratings?

That seems true. Most people are fairly nice about disagreeing with Thetan. And a couple times Thetan has sought feedback, or at least actively made herself open to feedback and criticism.
I tried to laugh at him, I tried to hate him, and I tried to feel sorry for him, but in the end, his story is really a microcosm and parable of societal decline.
If Chris were a microcosm of society, then he wouldn't be so remarkable and grab the attention of so many people. He is unique. To me that says something good about society.
 
While Rocky may have meant well, I would not consider her a qualified counselor. She is a pastor, first and foremost.

Just look at the "Dr. Perrone" phone call.
I agree, my point is that Chris went in with the intention of getting counseling, whether he did so by choice or was goaded into it. Regardless, getting Chris help has worked before.
 
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i can't decide if this is funny or sad
Grown ass man has a curfew and checks in with mommy. That's funny.

I think it's shameful how so many on this board kept calling out Thetan ect..
You mean like 5 people? Most people here enjoyed the info brought by Thetan or were polite about things they disagree with. Maybe I read your post wrong but you made it sound like everyone is bashing Thetan at all times.
 
If Chris were a microcosm of society, then he wouldn't be so remarkable and grab the attention of so many people. He is unique. To me that says something good about society.
I'd say he's a parody of society rather than a parable. Much of what he does is basically an aspect of modern society, warped and exaggerated. Are you an obsessive fan? Well, this guy got arrested over Sonic's arms. Think you're bad with women? Watch this guy's seduction routine. Big fan of the Social Justice movement? Have I got a surprise for you! Chris isn't a microcosm of society, but I'd say he's kind of like a funhouse mirror reflection of it.
 
I made an account just to post in this thread. As way of a preface, let me say directly that I'm not trying to attack anyone or claim a moral high ground.

It seems pretty apparent that almost all the internet attention to Chris is now ethically untenable. Chris is a very damaged person who - at the very least - has transitioned from simply being an awkward nerd with pervasive personality flaws to someone who might be legitimately unfit to live an independent life in free society. For some time now Chris has been displaying signs of what could be serious and progressive mental illness. Again, not to blame anyone, but the trolling he has experienced may very well have contributed to a serious fracturing of his ego. He appears to understand himself along with the world at large primarily through the externalization of his insecurities and dislikes and certainly these things have been underscored and exaggerated by trolling. I don't want to go on at length about any of my pet theories concerning his mental state or motivations nor rehash Chris' history. It goes without saying that you are all free to disagree partially or totally with what I'm saying but regardless, ask yourself, do you honestly think that the trolling hasn't been a net negative for Chris?

It's also not just a question of active trolling because the CWCKI is a permanent, extensive archive of Chris' fuck ups. If anything, it should be taken down. I freely admit that I've read many of its pages over and over again. I have watched plenty of the videos of Chris on Youtube. Chris is an extremely interesting and entertaining person, or should I say was, because what's happening now is morbid. It's one thing to laugh at a drunk when he's young and healthy, embarrassing himself at a party after having a few too many drinks. It's entirely another thing to eagerly anticipate observing the same person laying face down in skid row, years later, going through hallucinatory seizures brought on by withdrawal due to uncontrollable alcoholism. It's no longer 2008 or 2009. What we're witnessing isn't just ridiculous or bizarre, it's tragic.

People say that Chris is his own worst troll and it's hard to argue against that. For all his problems, it is his childish irresponsibility and unwillingness to change that holds him back from making progress as a person. I'm not going to claim he's an out and out victim but the major point here is that Chris is not the one who is maintaining the CWCKI. That's our decision. He would have it taken down and I think that's fair. People should have a right to be forgotten. Chris might suffer from a host of significant defects of character but that doesn't mean he deserves to have a damning compendium about him on the internet. The CWCKI is about us being entertained. Does our desire to be amused or shocked outweigh the anguish of a disturbed person?

This is my two cents and I doubt anything will change but it's the way I feel.
 
I made an account just to post in this thread. As way of a preface, let me say directly that I'm not trying to attack anyone or claim a moral high ground.

It seems pretty apparent that almost all the internet attention to Chris is now ethically untenable. Chris is a very damaged person who - at the very least - has transitioned from simply being an awkward nerd with pervasive personality flaws to someone who might be legitimately unfit to live an independent life in free society. For some time now Chris has been displaying signs of what could be serious and progressive mental illness. Again, not to blame anyone, but the trolling he has experienced may very well have contributed to a serious fracturing of his ego. He appears to understand himself along with the world at large primarily through the externalization of his insecurities and dislikes and certainly these things have been underscored and exaggerated by trolling. I don't want to go on at length about any of my pet theories concerning his mental state or motivations nor rehash Chris' history. It goes without saying that you are all free to disagree partially or totally with what I'm saying but regardless, ask yourself, do you honestly think that the trolling hasn't been a net negative for Chris?

It's also not just a question of active trolling because the CWCKI is a permanent, extensive archive of Chris' fuck ups. If anything, it should be taken down. I freely admit that I've read many of its pages over and over again. I have watched plenty of the videos of Chris on Youtube. Chris is an extremely interesting and entertaining person, or should I say was, because what's happening now is morbid. It's one thing to laugh at a drunk when he's young and healthy, embarrassing himself at a party after having a few too many drinks. It's entirely another thing to eagerly anticipate observing the same person laying face down in skid row, years later, going through hallucinatory seizures brought on by withdrawal due to uncontrollable alcoholism. It's no longer 2008 or 2009. What we're witnessing isn't just ridiculous or bizarre, it's tragic.

People say that Chris is his own worst troll and it's hard to argue against that. For all his problems, it is his childish irresponsibility and unwillingness to change that holds him back from making progress as a person. I'm not going to claim he's an out and out victim but the major point here is that Chris is not the one who is maintaining the CWCKI. That's our decision. He would have it taken down and I think that's fair. People should have a right to be forgotten. Chris might suffer from a host of significant defects of character but that doesn't mean he deserves to have a damning compendium about him on the internet. The CWCKI is about us being entertained. Does our desire to be amused or shocked outweigh the anguish of a disturbed person?

This is my two cents and I doubt anything will change but it's the way I feel.

The Chandlers had persecution complexes well before Chris arrived on the internet. Blame was the easy way out, and Borb taught Chris to embrace the attitude. The existence of this forum and other material justifies Chris's attitude to himself, to his mother and certain other people. Yes, he still feeds the trolls. He shouldn't be making public facebook posts. People that are trying to help him, whether by taking on a persona or in real life, shouldn't be reporting their results and findings publicly if their motives are honestly to help Chris. If you've got an "in" with Chris and are dispensing advice to him, that doesn't mean you have to come and tell it. That's not what a counselor, a friend or confidante does. If and when he ever puts two and two together (or has a picture painted for him), and he discovers recent conversations he's had with people he took as meaningful and fulfilling was simply another fake person, that doesn't help him, it simply confirms what he feared to be true.

I first discovered Chris in 2010, I didn't pay much attention to the encyclopedia Dramatica article, and it was another year before I realized that this was a real guy without exaggeration. By the time Bob died and the Game Place arrest, I'd say Chris was dried up. He was no longer in a give-and-take with his audience, and he was very scarred. Despite that, this forum came online a year and a half later. I find that incredible, that that long after he jumped the shark such a dedicated and active forum would pop up.

If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't be following Chris, I wouldn't be telling other people about him. And other people wouldn't have a venue to obsess over him and possibly be inspired to do all the things we supposedly frown upon, like calling the jails, sending information to the prosecutor or calling the phone number in his craigslist ads.

Chris didn't even get a fair shake in his pepper spray incident, because most people that go crazy and chimp out in public wouldn't be recognized by some random customer before the assault. But that tumblr user recognized Chris, and knew that even if Chris was minding his own business and not causing a scene, there is an audience ready to devour footage of Chris. Any footage. Sure, GameStop probably had surveillance, but there's always the chance the cameras are down, the angle is bad, it's grainy or there is no audio. But Chris didn't get the same chance other random wackos would've had.

Chris deserves to answer for his actions, but his chance at trial will be nil and his ability to bargain very weak because some customer recognized him. I doubt they would've shot the video had they not known who he was, because by the time they started filming, the disturbance seemed to be over and the irate customer seemed to be leaving. Who would expect him to pepper spray a random employee? But thanks to the notoriety we've perpetuated, some guy with a camera knew better.
 
The concept of ethics doesn't work that well with amorphous, ill-defined groups like Chris' followers. Ethics are for individuals. Chris' followers are more like a market.

I imagine a lot of followers feel the way I do: All this attention to him is damaging and not in his best interest, but I'm not an active participant. I don't call him, I don't drive by his house, I don't pretend to be a girl and email him, but I'll watch the show because people are going to do it anyhow, I might as well get my jollies. But then it's like the argument against child porn (I am not putting this on the level of child porn): If you look at it, you're guilty because you're creating a demand for it, even if you're not creating the material.

But how can CWC-mania come to an end when there is such an unbridled enthusiasm for being the first to post the scoop on Chris's latest facebook status, the pitiful details of his encounter with a hooker or his newly discovered homework from tenth grade?
 
I imagine a lot of followers feel the way I do: All this attention to him is damaging and not in his best interest, but I'm not an active participant. I don't call him, I don't drive by his house, I don't pretend to be a girl and email him, but I'll watch the show because people are going to do it anyhow, I might as well get my jollies. But then it's like the argument against child porn (I am not putting this on the level of child porn): If you look at it, you're guilty because you're creating a demand for it, even if you're not creating the material.
I disagree. If we didn't watch him or if he wasn't trolled he'd still be raging against the Greene County Conspiracy, Megan, Snyder, MLW, ect, we just wouldn't be hearing about it. Regardless of how much he might not like this forums existence, it's something that he's learned to grudgingly live with. Just like with the weens, I think people overestimate how much this forum impacts his life.
But how can CWC-mania come to an end when there is such an unbridled enthusiasm for being the first to post the scoop on Chris's latest facebook status, the pitiful details of his encounter with a hooker or his newly discovered homework from tenth grade?
Either he completely drops off the radar or gets incarcerated for an extended period of time so interest in him wanes.
 
I imagine a lot of followers feel the way I do: All this attention to him is damaging and not in his best interest, but I'm not an active participant. I don't call him, I don't drive by his house, I don't pretend to be a girl and email him, but I'll watch the show because people are going to do it anyhow, I might as well get my jollies. But then it's like the argument against child porn (I am not putting this on the level of child porn): If you look at it, you're guilty because you're creating a demand for it, even if you're not creating the material.

But how can CWC-mania come to an end when there is such an unbridled enthusiasm for being the first to post the scoop on Chris's latest facebook status, the pitiful details of his encounter with a hooker or his newly discovered homework from tenth grade?
Agreed. It's a "tragedy of the commons" sort of problem.

Each ween, troll, fake girlfriend or observer thinks about their responsibility to Chris and his situation, they consider the moral implications of their actions, and they ultimately choose to go ahead. They think what they're doing isn't that bad. And really, I agree with them, most of the time each individual action isn't that bad. For example, a single julay call is annoying to Chris, but he still shrugs it off.

The problem is that all these people's actions add up.*

And even just observing Chris contributes to the problem in a real way. The observers are the big reason weening exists. Weens do what they do because they want the glory of being the next Clyde Cash. Clicking on the cwcki once isn't a big deal, but your click is still one more click on the pile.

Because these groups are decentralized, they're not going to stop existing on their own while Chris is still interesting to them. As long as Chris is giving us something to talk about, we're going to talk. If something's going to end it, it's going to come from outside the internet. Chris will need to shut up, whether by his own volition or by going to jail or something.

* Though I don't think Chris' internet notoriety is a big part of why his life is so miserable right now. Bob died and then Barb went past the point of no return and took Chris with her.
 
Honestly I feel that the trolling has, in a strange way, provided Chris with someone to talk to. Even though it has mostly been him threatening people with cops and death, Chris has been given some form of social interaction that none of his white knights and his mother can provide or will ever be arsed to.

True you could argue that some trolls took it a few steps too far, Julie and Kacey being examples, but most of the time the trolling was done with the intention of trying to help Chris. Clyde Cash tried to trick Chris into going to Redmond so that Nintendo themselves might be used to break Chris's disillusion that Sonichu could become a franchise, but failed because Chris was lazy. Asperchu was created to make fun of Chris's hypocrisy and his work. Alec himself tried to reason with Chris when Evan began demanding the removal of Simonla, only for him and the rest of Asperpedia be drawn being brutally executed by Chris and his recolors.

The problem with Chris was never the trolls, weens or fake internet girlfriends. The problem with Chris is Chris himself. He could have easily walked away from his article on ED without him even acknowledging its existence, but he refused to let someone make fun of him. He could have easily ignored Liquid Chris and the latter would have faded away, but Chris refused to let someone imitate him as he strongly believed that Liquid was stealing his work and fame. Even now Chris refuses the reality of his life. He strongly believes that he is the victim of his recent bout with the law,despite the video and several eye witness accounts of him spraying a man who was not in any way threatening Chris.

As a fellow cwcki member told me when I first posted in another thread; Chris is his own biggest troll.
 
True you could argue that some trolls took it a few steps too far, Julie and Kacey being examples, but most of the time the trolling was done with the intention of trying to help Chris. Clyde Cash tried to trick Chris into going to Redmond so that Nintendo themselves might be used to break Chris's disillusion that Sonichu could become a franchise, but failed because Chris was lazy. Asperchu was created to make fun of Chris's hypocrisy and his work. Alec himself tried to reason with Chris when Evan began demanding the removal of Simonla, only for him and the rest of Asperpedia be drawn being brutally executed by Chris and his recolors.

We're years removed and it doesn't really matter but I think you're putting way too much stock into these good intentions. Really don't see any of the things you mentioned as being more than just fucking with him because that's what trolling is. Asperchu was just something Alec was doing for fun. It wasn't until Chris discovered it that it became a thing.

If @Marvin or any of the people with knowledge want to correct me it would be appreciated. Otherwise I think you're putting a little too much worth into what was just trolling a particularly gullible guy.
 
Agreed. It's a "tragedy of the commons" sort of problem.

Each ween, troll, fake girlfriend or observer thinks about their responsibility to Chris and his situation, they consider the moral implications of their actions, and they ultimately choose to go ahead. They think what they're doing isn't that bad. And really, I agree with them, most of the time each individual action isn't that bad. For example, a single julay call is annoying to Chris, but he still shrugs it off.

The problem is that all these people's actions add up.*

And even just observing Chris contributes to the problem in a real way. The observers are the big reason weening exists. Weens do what they do because they want the glory of being the next Clyde Cash. Clicking on the cwcki once isn't a big deal, but your click is still one more click on the pile.

Because these groups are decentralized, they're not going to stop existing on their own while Chris is still interesting to them. As long as Chris is giving us something to talk about, we're going to talk. If something's going to end it, it's going to come from outside the internet. Chris will need to shut up, whether by his own volition or by going to jail or something.

* Though I don't think Chris' internet notoriety is a big part of why his life is so miserable right now. Bob died and then Barb went past the point of no return and took Chris with her.

That is a very interesting way of putting it. I couldn't agree more.

To add on to your point, there are a few key roles that trolls can play in Chris' life. Sweetheart, most trusted gal-pal etc. Although noone really says it, the waiting list for these (t)roles is long. If someone like Thetan were to retire all of her characters Chris would feel lonely, and eventually somehow another troll would end up to bat.
 
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True you could argue that some trolls took it a few steps too far, Julie and Kacey being examples, but most of the time the trolling was done with the intention of trying to help Chris. Clyde Cash tried to trick Chris into going to Redmond so that Nintendo themselves might be used to break Chris's disillusion that Sonichu could become a franchise, but failed because Chris was lazy. Asperchu was created to make fun of Chris's hypocrisy and his work. Alec himself tried to reason with Chris when Evan began demanding the removal of Simonla, only for him and the rest of Asperpedia be drawn being brutally executed by Chris and his recolors.
While I agree that Chris is entirely to blame for his own situation, I think a lot of these "we were only trying to help" arguments are justification after the fact. For instance, if Clyde wanted to break Chris' delusion, why create this elaborate ruse to send him on a long and expensive journey? Why not just fake correspondence saying "We are not and never will be interested in Sonichu?" I can't speak for Alec, and I'm happy to be corrected, but I thought Asperchu was just created as a parody rather than to serve any lofty goal with regard to Chris. The Simonla saga was pure trolling - the character was troll-created, there was no attempt to deal realistically with the copyright issues (which would seem to be the only helpful purpose it could serve), it was basically a way to fuck directly with Sonichu continuity.

I think this is the case with a lot of these other "trying to help" claims. I mean, I laughed my ass off at the Father Call, but let's not pretend that it's anything other that two hours of a guy telling Chris that he's a useless waste of space while Kacey gets in the way. "Matthew Devoria" wasn't the first person to tell Chris that, and it wasn't going to work this time either. Jackie wasn't trying to get Chris to "apply himself," she was trying to get funny videos of an idiot wearing stupid costumes in the hope of sex she wasn't going to give him. Any benefits to Chris were coincidental.

I'm not saying that none of the trolls tried to help, but let's not give more credit than is due.
 
And even just observing Chris contributes to the problem in a real way. The observers are the big reason weening exists. Weens do what they do because they want the glory of being the next Clyde Cash. Clicking on the cwcki once isn't a big deal, but your click is still one more click on the pile.

I actually don't think I agree with this, but it still disturbs me. Perhaps because I am exactly one of these people. I have observed Chris, never weened, never trolled him, never done anything, since 2008 or so. The reason I can't agree with it is that I can't even compare clicking on websites about people who deliberately maintained an Internet presence for years and desperately tried to attract attention to even a relatively minor offense like being a looky-loo and slowing down traffic to look at an accident while passing it.

I can't bring myself to click Disagree on it, though, because I suspect my denial is self-interested.

"It's a fair cop, but society is to blame." And I'm part of society.
 
By any account we are taking pleasure in the torment of another human being, that's the truth. So it's pretty terrible anyway you cut it.

Wether Chrissy would have turned out any different or if the trolls helped him is rather academic as any "normal"person would condem what we do as they would only see a group of people picking on a retard. And they're right IMHO

Personally I'm ok with what we do but again I don't try to justify my interest or actions I just laugh my ass off at Chrissys antics and let karma be karma.

Plus I'm a terrible person anyway.
 
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