Opinion Trump seeks to make it easier for people with mental illnesses to be involuntarily committed - Critics say the approach, aimed at ending homelessness, lacks sufficient evidence

by: O. Rose Broderick

President Trump wants to make it easier to involuntarily treat people with serious mental illnesses as part of a bid to end homelessness across the United States, according to a new order signed Thursday.

The administration wants to expand involuntary commitments by reversing judicial policies that restrict the use of the controversial approach and by providing grants, legal advice, and other assistance to local and state governments. The order also directs several agencies, including the Department of Health and Human Services, to audit grant recipients to ensure no money flows to organizations that promote policies that clash with the administration’s stated values.

While some studies have found that involuntary commitments are already increasing, the practice would grow dramatically if the changes laid out in the order come to pass. The effort is the latest push by the administration to move unhoused people off the street and into private psychiatric hospitals and facilities. Critics say the campaign is aimed at moving unhouse people outside of the public eye.

“By removing vagrant criminals from our streets and redirecting resources toward substance abuse programs, the Trump Administration will ensure that Americans feel safe in their own communities and that individuals suffering from addiction or mental health struggles are able to get the help they need,” said White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt.

Many public health professionals believe that involuntary commitment should be used as a last resort, if it is used at all. They suggested that involuntary treatment lacks sufficient evidence for its expansion and would only dissuade individuals from seeking care.

“Simply locking people up is not a solution,” said Jennifer Mathis, deputy director for the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law. “The order’s directive to agencies to seek opportunities to overturn basic protections against arbitrary commitment is shocking. At a time when the federal government is making historic cuts to Medicaid and housing, it is particularly absurd to invest resources warehousing people in institutions.”

While it is unclear precisely how the White House plans to enact these actions, it instructs federal agencies to crack down on public drug use, urban camping, and loitering. It also directs Attorney General Pam Bondi to potentially pursue legal action against organizations that run supervised drug consumption sites. Harm reduction programs will also be deprioritized.

One of the biggest changes would be a shift away from a “housing first” approach to homelessness pursued by the Biden administration. These policies have shown remarkable success over treatment-first models in helping unhoused populations stay off the street and reduce the level of care they require. The Department of Housing and Urban Development would also be required to force organizations to collect federal health information from unhoused people who receive services and share such data with law enforcement officials.

Some experts suggest these initiatives were not developed in consultation with other federal officials, including public health professionals at the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, the agency that has traditionally overseen relevant policy recommendations and grantmaking.

Under the order, to get people off the street, local and state officials are supposed to prioritize involuntary outpatient treatments, even though a recent Government Accountability Office report found that involuntary outpatient treatments were not necessarily as effective as proponents claimed.

“Trump’s actions to expand involuntary treatment and long-term institutionalization set us back decades to the days of warehousing people in back hospital wards instead of providing care back home,” said Paolo del Vecchio, a former SAMHSA executive officer.

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There are some people who simply cannot and will probably never be able to function in society. The old asylums had a role
Then we shut down the asylums bc the conditions were unfit for dogs let alone humans, and then the creation of "community based care" was voted down bc too expensive.
Yeah that’s exactly the point - they needed serious reform, and all we did was close them, and the wash our hands of the resulting mess. ‘Care in the community’ is a lovely thing for downies and low-risk people, IF they do t need significant nursing care. And IF their carers want to and IF those carers are supported. Group home living for people with things like downs supported by carers is a nice example,
That is NOT the bulk of the ‘unhoused.’ People with severe mental health issues need medical care - I don’t think people get how demanding 24 hour care is. There’s a point of illness where you can’t manage at home any more - when Alzheimer’s agitation turns into psychosis and they need 24 hour full care you need a medical context. For the floridly mentally ill younger people with severe drug addiction there is no care in the community, it’s not possible to do, they need secure and intensive intervention
Simply locking people up is not a solution,” said Jennifer Mathis, deputy director for the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law.
Locking them up solves the problems they cause in society yes. Locking them up, in reformed asylums, with good oversight and treatment is the only way.
 
I question well it would be effective fixing the problem people though.

There's no "fixing" a lot of this. It's warehousing for utilitarian purposes, because these are not, mostly, people who are going to be there with curative expectations.

I hope there are strong rules put in place that limit this to people who are causing destruction and physical harm, because otherwise you can bet that the next time leftists have all three branches of government they'll be locking people up in asylums for not masking or not having a Pride flag properly displayed for the month of June. (That sounds like an exaggeration, but after I read those Oregon foster care guidelines, I don't think it is, really.)
 
Group home living for people with things like downs supported by carers is a nice example,
That is NOT the bulk of the ‘unhoused.’
For what is worth, I've never seen a homeless retarded or Downs person. Ever. And I've worked in places like the California Bay Area and Las Vegas for extended periods, and I live in a moderately sized city myself. The bums are all either very obvious drug addicts or illegal migrants. 100% of the time.

My assumption is that's because society seems to intrinsically take genuine pity on people such as those with Downs, because they did not choose that life for themselves, they were born that way. And they don't have the concept of shame or guilt about the way they are because they don't understand it. They seem to try to be functional in society they are often uplifted and supported by their community.

Angry/mean low functioning autistic people on the other hand, I got nothing lol.
 
If you are a druggie homeless and live in the woods and don't bother anyone this policy isn't going to effect you. So this mysterious schizophrenic homeless drug addict that isn't harming society the author wants to pretend exists won't be impacted.
What about the one that kills people's dogs when they wander into the woods near the park? Asking for a friend.

They wrapped the dog's body up in something, too. I don't know if the guy who did it was having an episode or if he was just a straight-up piece of shit.

FWIW, it was an Airedale Terrier and not a shitbull.
 
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There's no "fixing" a lot of this. It's warehousing for utilitarian purposes, because these are not, mostly, people who are going to be there with curative expectations.

I hope there are strong rules put in place that limit this to people who are causing destruction and physical harm, because otherwise you can bet that the next time leftists have all three branches of government they'll be locking people up in asylums for not masking or not having a Pride flag properly displayed for the month of June. (That sounds like an exaggeration, but after I read those Oregon foster care guidelines, I don't think it is, really.)
Right. Like perhaps in South Dakota or Missouri, the law will be used to hold someone who was camping on the street for extended evaluation, detox, and treatment.

In other states, you could easily see a return of the Soviet definition of "schizophrenia."

If there are not extremely well-defined terms, strict rules, and a bulldog enforcement agency watching over it all, this is inevitable.

I know everyone loves this vision of "jam them all into a big building and lock the door, there my problem went away" but in no conceivable world will it work like that and honestly I'm losing patience with otherwise intelligent people insisting nuh-uh it super duper will do so there!

So you scoop a dozen frothing cases of probable meth psychosis off the street. You roll up to St. John's hospital. They have 25 adult inpatient beds. Those are all full and there are 5 people waiting for a bed in a secure area of the ED. They take 2 guys off your hands, nonetheless. With the remaining ten you proceed to University of Med School. They have no adult inpatient psych beds, due to an attempt to create "collaborative care" ten years ago which outsourced said resources to a location shared with another medical group. They however do have a medicine bed that accepts the one of your guys who has diabetes and high blood glucose. You are down to 9.

Oh about that! These dudes have been abusing drugs and living rough for months. They all have medical issues. So when you approach MindCare Inc, the designated psych facility in town, it will accept NONE of them, as they do not meet medical stability criteria for admission.

So you continue on with your 9 remaining hobos to LutherMed, the other former religious joint. They take another 2.

Seven guys in the back of your paddywagon need a secure facility where they can be medically treated before getting admitted anywhere else. They are not sick enough for a medical bed at any hospital. But they are too unstable for a psych ward with no medicine floor.

It's 8 pm, I guess you'll just leave them in the car and deal with it tomorrow.

IN THE MEAN TIME-

A productive member of society, cello teacher and second chair symphony member Mike O'Connor, beloved father of three and grandfather of 5, parishioner at St. Bede's, is having a problem. He has had well-managed bipolar disorder for most of his life, but a recent tour exhausted him and the jet lag set off a depressive episode. He is actively suicidal and his family is concerned that if he is not admitted, he has the means and opportunity to end his life- something they know the regular Mike would never want to do, this is the illness talking.

There is nowhere to admit him so he sits in one of those ED beds for 2 weeks. No visitors, and no active management of his disease, he actually worsens during this time.

When he is admitted to the floor, the resources of staff are almost entirely devoted to keeping meth heads from killing and raping. Therapeutic time is minimal.

We will lose Mike at the cost of feeling like we are "doing something" about the other guys, all while not actually doing anything substantive about any of it.
 
I know everyone loves this vision of "jam them all into a big building and lock the door, there my problem went away" but in no conceivable world will it work like that and honestly I'm losing patience with otherwise intelligent people insisting nuh-uh it super duper will do so there!
You aren't wrong, we're completely unequipped as-is to handle this. But if we don't start somewhere, in this case things like kicking off construction of larger facilities meant to handle scores of drug zombies, training up staff, etc, we will never ever get a handle on the problem.
 
I think we all know where this is going.

Anti-Semitism: A Disease of the Mind Burton Einspruch, MD

To understand this phenomenon, he uses a disease concept with psychodynamic constructs. He proposes "symbol sickness" as the "major underlying and contributing psychological disablement making anti-Semitism and most other illnesses of this kind possible." Prominent aspects of symbol sickness include four primary characteristics: the symbol gap, ie, "the removal of the symbol from the object it initially is there to represent"; symbol autonomy, ie, "the symbol not only is removed from the subject but at least in part from the central thinking process of the host"; fragmentation, in which the emotionally laden symbol eventually eludes the control of the host's logical system and has the capacity to spread; and distortion, in which "the symbol is free to take on any and all grotesqueries however
 
You aren't wrong, we're completely unequipped as-is to handle this. But if we don't start somewhere, in this case things like kicking off construction of larger facilities meant to handle scores of drug zombies, training up staff, etc, we will never ever get a handle on the problem.
The construction needs to start before even attempting anything else. That and some effort being put into training and recruiting people who would work at such a place. There is just simply not enough space, and not enough staff, to responsibly deal with this as things stand today. And it's really a misnomer to assume this is going to need to be "mental health" related- most of these street cases are primarily substance related. They are not classic schizophrenics and other major mental illnesses. Most of them with psychosis have drug-induced psychosis. Remember half of schizophrenia is negative symptoms- things that make people want to sit around and do nothing. That's not what you're seeing on the street. You're seeing fent and meth.

So the facilities will need to be substance abuse oriented. And there is no reason to keep them in the same spaces as general psychiatric populations. Depressed grandma and terrified first episode Tyler, age 19, do not need to be raped by a meth zombie.
 
Yes, they'll absolutely need to be keyed heavily towards sub-90 IQ drug addicts, because I think it's a simple fact that that's the bulk of "mental illness" in the country right now. Even if Trayvon gets dragged in and has a legit medical condition going on in his brain, they still need to strip the addiction out and get him to some baseline level of compliance before the other issue could be addressed.
 
The construction needs to start before even attempting anything else. That and some effort being put into training and recruiting people who would work at such a place. There is just simply not enough space, and not enough staff, to responsibly deal with this as things stand today. And it's really a misnomer to assume this is going to need to be "mental health" related- most of these street cases are primarily substance related. They are not classic schizophrenics and other major mental illnesses. Most of them with psychosis have drug-induced psychosis. Remember half of schizophrenia is negative symptoms- things that make people want to sit around and do nothing. That's not what you're seeing on the street. You're seeing fent and meth.

So the facilities will need to be substance abuse oriented. And there is no reason to keep them in the same spaces as general psychiatric populations. Depressed grandma and terrified first episode Tyler, age 19, do not need to be raped by a meth zombie.
Drug induced schizophrenia often sticks around though. A family member of a family member had this happen - induced full blown schizophrenia with meth psychosis, now it's been years and the dude stopped doing drugs of any kind (mostly because the voices tell him he's not allowed to do them along with other things like eating food) but he's indistinguishable from the drug zombies you are talking about. Not to mention all of the people who do drugs to manage/mask/cope with psychosis symptoms, it's a chicken and egg scenario.
 
Drug induced schizophrenia often sticks around though. A family member of a family member had this happen - induced full blown schizophrenia with meth psychosis, now it's been years and the dude stopped doing drugs of any kind (mostly because the voices tell him he's not allowed to do them along with other things like eating food) but he's indistinguishable from the drug zombies you are talking about. Not to mention all of the people who do drugs to manage/mask/cope with psychosis symptoms, it's a chicken and egg scenario.
It can stick around, but in many ways it is a different disease to treat. I realize this board is not a popular place to put this out there, but a lot of decent, well-loved individuals struggle with lifelong mental illness. They deserve to still have treatment options and safe places to go in a crisis, not to have those places completely coopted to be fent thug daycare. I'm fine with fent thug daycare being a thing. Make sure it has high tech security in place. But don't shove violent addicts into already overburdened treatment spaces for people who have some chance of redeeming a life worth living.
 
It can stick around, but in many ways it is a different disease to treat. I realize this board is not a popular place to put this out there, but a lot of decent, well-loved individuals struggle with lifelong mental illness. They deserve to still have treatment options and safe places to go in a crisis, not to have those places completely coopted to be fent thug daycare. I'm fine with fent thug daycare being a thing. Make sure it has high tech security in place. But don't shove violent addicts into already overburdened treatment spaces for people who have some chance of redeeming a life worth living.
We're in agreement then. The person in my example was violent when the meth psychosis kicked off, but ever since the drugs wore off he's completely harmless and mostly just stands in one place for hours. And I'm convinced he'd actually be able to recover if somebody was forcing down the right drug cocktail, since the voices don't allow him to seek appropriate medical treatment. I think a decent solution would be having evaluations to move people from one category to the other once a distinction has been made.
 
FWIW, it was an Airedale Terrier and not a shitbull.
Those are the sweetest teddy bears.
airedale-terrier-smiling-1969250688.webp
That person is a fiend who should be lobomized and turned into a servitor.
 
Our old friend Peter Guerin won't like it he's been dreading it since Chris Chan maced the Gamestop employee


"if the GOP winds the White House and Congress next year, we could be looking at something akin to Krystallnacht--and perhaps a renewed push to have most (if not all) of us put back in mental institutions whether we like it or not"

Chris chan isn't a fan neither
 
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