Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Smack Patrick]

Noelle would have more believable chemistry with Kris of all people due to their childhood history

If Toby pulls this on us, I kneel.

 

[Bob Barbas]

View attachment 8182072

If Toby pulls this on us, I kneel.

Huh... you know this actually does make me realize how odd it is that Kris seems to fit her preferences from what we've been told so far but nope, she wants the purple dinosaur she's never met before instead. On top of actively throwing Kris under the bus for her.

So not only is she a weird lesbo bitch lusting after someone she doesn't really know but she's a shitty friend too. If Toby were based he would acknowledge these things in the story, but I know he won't. I'd argue it'd somewhat excuse it if he did since the story would actually acknowledge said behavior instead of just pretending it's all cool and not just shoved in their for dyke pandering.
Again I would love a scene where Susie actually gets pissed at Noelle when she goes "Nuh uh, I'm not friends with Kris, I barely even know him!"

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

No no, I agree. Or it’s at least close enough the main issue. Even if one of the genders were swapped, it’s still a bad ship because, as everyone else has said, they have no chemistry. Romance in any story, let alone a game, is very much a “do it right or don’t do it at all” sort of thing, and making Suselle canon would show that Toby cares more about his fetishes than about his characters.

How about this: Noelle confesses to Susie at the festival, who doesn’t know how to respond, then dark world shenanigans immediately interrupt them. Susie confides with Kris later in the chapter about her conflicting emotions because of course she would go to him, who else? Kris can’t/won’t tell Susie what to do, and Susie decides that she doesn’t feel that way about Noelle right now, but she’s still open to the possibility of Noelle somehow winning her over, which she accepts. While reflecting on all this, Susie realizes just how much she trusts Kris, gets confused about her feelings again, then casually decides it’ll all work itself out.

There - a safe, fence-sitting series of events that doesn’t fully satisfy anyone but won’t make anyone too upset, either.

I genuinely hope Toby doesn't make suselle a locked-in thing. Even if Noelle likes Susie's real personality just as much as the fake one, these two characters still barely know each other. They've spoken, collectively, for like an hour at most across the entire game, which (outside of pencilgate) is literally everything.

I've probably had more conversations with my mailman than these two.

Their entire "relationship" consists of Noelle obsessiely gooning at Susie from afar like a creeper and Susie not bullying her because she was nice one time. Their interactions in-game are some of the most blatantly shoe-horned and forced sections in the narrative, outright locking the characters in a room together and forcing them to interact via removing Kris through plot shenanigans. Twice.

Toby cannot be this blind. I refuse to believe it. I don't care how deep his lesbian fetish runs, he has to see how much deeper Susie's connection with Kris is and has been even prior to the events of the game. He cannot be missing the fact that Suselle only progresses when Kris isn't present, the moment Kris is there Susie just naturally gravitates towards him.

The only scene I can even think of where this isn't the case is the goofy ass interaction in the hospital with Rudy where Susie randomly starts talking about how hot and "top shelf" Noelle is to her dad when she learns no one invited her to the festival, which was so obnoxiously forced and contrary to Susie's consistently naive characterization (especially on stuff like attraction) that it felt borderline out of character.

 

[There Is Light At The End]

View attachment 8182072

If Toby pulls this on us, I kneel.

You can also kneel on his neck if he pulls dyke shit

 

[Bitchy Babylonian Barber]

Even if one of the genders were swapped, it’s still a bad ship

Oh no we know for sure if Noelle was a 'Noel' or any other dude the fandom would dogpile on that poor sucker as much as they did Chapter 1 Berdly, male-Noelle would be instantly run through the proverbial shredder so hard it'd be like chucking a snowball into the Sun. A dude creepishly gooning over a girl is wrong, but when a girl does it to another girl its now 'lesbian-coded' and pro-LGBT which says a lot about these people.

 

[LoogerLike]

You can also kneel on his neck if he pulls dyke shit

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

A dude creepishly gooning over a girl is wrong, but when a girl does it to another girl its now 'lesbian-coded' and pro-LGBT which says a lot about these people.

Not just any girl, a classmate.

Obsessively fantasizing about a random stranger would be bad enough, but gooning to someone you actually interact with in your day-to-day life but barely knows you is a hundred times more fucking creepy. If Noelle was a dude that would be some Supreme Gentleman type shit.

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

If Toby pulls this on us, I kneel.

Huh... you know this actually does make me realize how odd it is that Kris seems to fit her preferences from what we've been told so far but nope, she wants the purple dinosaur she's never met before instead. On top of actively throwing Kris under the bus for her.

I have seen some Kris/Noelle shipping previously; not my cup of tea, personally, but there is a fandom for it.

Their entire "relationship" consists of Noelle obsessiely gooning at Susie from afar like a creeper and Susie not bullying her because she was nice one time. Their interactions in-game are some of the most blatantly shoe-horned and forced sections in the narrative, outright locking the characters in a room together and forcing them to interact via removing Kris through plot shenanigans. Twice.

Not just any girl, a classmate.

Obsessively fantasizing about a random stranger would be bad enough, but gooning to someone you actually interact with in your day-to-day life but barely knows you is a hundred times more fucking creepy. If Noelle was a dude that would be some Supreme Gentleman type shit.

Surprising just how stalker-coded Noelle is; honestly, between this and he rather poorly-made character, it makes me hesitant on what Toby will be doing in the future. Especially since the lore indicates somewhat that Noelle will be a main character going forwards, while Susie might end up as an antagonist...

 

[Retarded Weeb]

I think people find Berdly's reasons for liking Susie to be less questionable than Noelle's despite interacting even less, which says something.

 

[Smack Patrick]

I have seen some Kris/Noelle shipping previously; not my cup of tea, personally, but there is a fandom for it.

Not my thing either, but I 100% understand the appeal of it and why people would go for it.

I think people find Berdly's reasons for liking Susie to be less questionable than Noelle's despite interacting even less, which says something.

>gamer girl
>same taste in vidya
>broke through his bullshit 'smart guy' persona
>built him back up when he was at his lowest
>accepted him for who he is
Vs...
>ehhh

 

[Retarded Weeb]

Vs...
>ehhh

You mean
>"She reminds me of my dead sister and I want her to step on me!"

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

I think people find Berdly's reasons for liking Susie to be less questionable than Noelle's despite interacting even less, which says something.

Yeah because Berdly is essentially a joke character, being super flakey and autistically abrasive is his thing. His attraction to Susie is treated completely unseriously, whereas wanting to fuck Susie is like 70% of Noelles characterization and is treated completely seriously narrative-wise.

Outside of Kris cucking Noelle multiple times and Noelles inner monologue being comedic it's very clear that Suselle is being taken as an actual plot point.

 

[LoogerLike]

whereas wanting to fuck Susie is like 70% of Noelles characterization and is treated completely seriously narrative-wise.

Outside of Kris cucking Noelle multiple times and Noelles inner monologue being comedic it's very clear that Suselle is being taken as an actual plot point.

I actually do like Noelle when she's not thirsting for Susie and throwing Kris under the bus to munch that barney carpet

 

[Eternal Struggler]

Yeah because Berdly is essentially a joke character

Let's see how much of a joke character he is in chapter 5 when he picks up the family shotgun (they own a shotgun because they are birds of prey, you see) to kill the knight in two shots and then Sans for banging Toriel.

 

[Two Dollars]

Especially since the lore indicates somewhat that Noelle will be a main character going forwards, while Susie might end up as an antagonist...

Nah, that won’t happen. The whole point was to show that Susie is a prophecy breaker and will stick with you to the end.

Though it would be interesting to see if we get Susie to fuck off in the weird route so the prophecy can play out.

 

[Smack Patrick]

I actually do like Noelle when she's not thirsting for Susie and throwing Kris under the bus to munch that barney carpet

Chapter 1
>indifferent to the doe.
Chapter 2 (Chill Hanging out with Kris)
>felt bad for her backstory glad she isn't completely one-dimensional
>liked finding out that Kris isn't a total asocial retard.
>interactions between the two were cute
Chapter 2 (With the !?!? Gang)
>dynamic was pretty amusing
>"Kris says I can walk behind Susie."
>*stares at her ass*
>ferris wheel scene was sweet
>seems like an innocent crush
Chapter 3
>Krusie prime time
>forget doe exists
Chapter 4
>awkward forced interactions that even make Susie feel out of character
>all that "back to how things were" in chapter 2 apparently means going back to "yeah Kris is just my hanger on"
>wait I thought I said she wasn't one-dimensional?

Know how Chapter 4 flipped peoples perspectives on Sans and Toriel?
Chapter 4 did that to Noelle for me. Can't be throwing the main man Kris under the bus like that.

His attraction to Susie is treated completely unseriously,

Dude probably unironically thinks he's the protagonist of a harem anime, dude thinks everyone loves him. Even Kris.

Though it would be interesting to see if we get Susie to fuck off in the weird route so the prophecy can play out.

Honestly think that's what Toby is going for.
Festival Normal route:
>Noelle keeps telling Kris to fuck off
>Susie pissed
>Grabs Kris and heads to the Dark World
Festival Weird route:
>Noelle keeps obsessing over Kris/(you)
>Susie creeped the fuck out, leaves
>Noelle and Kris head to the Dark World

 

[Coolio55]

I actually do like Noelle when she's not thirsting for Susie and throwing Kris under the bus to munch that barney carpet

I don't. This shit belongs on r/truemenwritingwomen.
Oh, she's a shy ditzy quirky gamer-girl who loves horror and punk rock and is also a lesbian? You sure you couldn't fit some more ridiculous stereotypes in there?

 

[Cryogonal2]

If Toby were based he would acknowledge these things in the story

I feel like he's building up to that, but who knows

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

I think people find Berdly's reasons for liking Susie to be less questionable than Noelle's despite interacting even less, which says something.

>built him back up when he was at his lowest
Vs...
>ehhh

You mean
>"She reminds me of my dead sister and I want her to step on me!"

His attraction to Susie is treated completely unseriously, whereas wanting to fuck Susie is like 70% of Noelles characterization and is treated completely seriously narrative-wise.

I think it says something about Toby's writing when the joke ship is honestly better-made than the actual one. Also, straight ships being better than fags.

I actually do like Noelle when she's not thirsting for Susie and throwing Kris under the bus to munch that barney carpet

Too bad that's basically all her character is nowadays.

Let's see how much of a joke character he is in chapter 5 when he picks up the family shotgun (they own a shotgun because they are birds of prey, you see) to kill the knight in two shots and then Sans for banging Toriel.

So... Berdly is this?

 

[LoogerLike]

I don't. This shit belongs on r/truemenwritingwomen.
Oh, she's a shy ditzy quirky gamer-girl who loves horror and punk rock and is also a lesbian? You sure you couldn't fit some more ridiculous stereotypes in there?

I didn't say I liked that part lol, I like her estranged, but still friendly relationship with Kris. Growing apart from people, neglecting your friends because you're an emo teenage boy, that aspect of Kris and Noelle feels natural. My final opinion on the doe will come when the game is done in 10 years.