Valorant

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Smithfield Ham said:
No, nigga, because they're retarded cheating scumbags and nobody should respect their opinions either way. If anything I hate shitheads like this more than you do because by being cheating scumbags they give companies the cover to do shady, heavy-handed and anti-consumer bullshit.
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I think the issue is that you're too focused on "the argument" to realize that, of all the things to complain about, Riot changing a few flags in Windows to enforce DMA verification is one of the least complaint-worthy actions they could've taken.
You don't even need to reinstall your OS to use the $6,000 cheat device again. You can disable IOMMU, VT-d/AMD-Vi, whatever, and go back to using it as if nothing happened. Also, if there's a software method for enabling verification, there's likely a software method for disabling it.
That's what I mean by tone policing. If Windows already behaved this way, there'd never be an article on it, and paradoxically, you'd never be here arguing about something that never happened.
 
klab said:
You can disable IOMMU, VT-d/AMD-Vi, whatever, and go back to using it as if nothing happened.
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Right, if Vanguard fucks your PC up, you can repair the damage it did. That isn't an argument. They shouldn't have the ability to fuck up your computer badly enough that you have to do that.

Forget about cheaters for a second: regular people who haven't cheated are reporting on Reddit and the official forums that Valorant fucked their PCs up so badly they had to reinstall Windows or jump through hoops to repair the damage. Regular people. Not cheaters. That's why companies can't be trusted with that level of power and why consumer rights need to be respected, because of that exact kind of shit.
 
Smithfield Ham said:
Right, if Vanguard fucks your PC up, you can repair the damage it did. That isn't an argument. They shouldn't have the ability to fuck up your computer badly enough that you have to do that.

Forget about cheaters for a second: regular people who haven't cheated are reporting on Reddit and the official forums that Valorant fucked their PCs up so badly they had to reinstall Windows or jump through hoops to repair the damage. Regular people. Not cheaters. That's why companies can't be trusted with that level of power and why consumer rights need to be respected, because of that exact kind of shit.
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May I see them? What damage does enforcing DMA verification do?
 
This ugly one guy argues like this every time retarded invasive cybersecurity stuff like this comes up. It is not worth engaging with him unless you want updoots or whatever. You will not change his mind.
 
klab said:
May I see them? What damage does enforcing DMA verification do?
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Take a look at the Riot Games subreddit right now. The entire front page is people having tech issues. Here's just one post as an example.

It's entirely possible that all of these people are lying and secretly cheaters, but its far more likely that Vanguard is a piece of shit.
Lagomorph Guy said:
This ugly one guy argues like this every time retarded invasive cybersecurity stuff like this comes up. It is not worth engaging with him unless you want updoots or whatever. You will not change his mind.
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Has Ugly One ever posted in the Stop Killing Games thread? He seems like he'd be a PirateSoftware defender. Bro seems like the type of guy who'd be genuinely pissed Apple had to switch to USB-C.
 
Smithfield Ham said:
Take a look at the Riot Games subreddit right now.
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People are complaining about the client being bad, Vanguard causing BSODs, and Riot not doing enough to ban people ruining games in ways that aren't cheating.
Nothing there indicates that Vanguard is causing widespread damage or that the recent change (what we're talking about) to DMA verification has ruined anyone's computer.
Vanguard's been around for 6 years already. It's been a Ring 0 Anti-Cheat for its lifetime. It's software that I don't want on my computer, but it isn't a crime.
Smithfield Ham said:
Here's just one post as an example.
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He claims that the 2 Vanguard-caused BSODs he experienced corrupted his computer's BIOS. A BSOD won't do that, and kernel-level drivers won't do it either. Vanguard isn't unique in any way. He also hasn't posted any evidence, merely comments complaining about the issue that he's attributing to Vanguard.
Saint Agustin said:
Why are people on this tread defending Riot?!

Wtf guys, why are you defending companies?
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I don't even like Riot; I'm just annoyed by people saying that enforcing built-in security features is tantamount to bricking people's OS and causing permanent hardware damage.
There has to be more to it than: "I don't like this company, so any argument against it is valid, no matter how wrong."
 
Smithfield Ham said:
Right, if Vanguard fucks your PC up, you can repair the damage it did. That isn't an argument. They shouldn't have the ability to fuck up your computer badly enough that you have to do that.

Forget about cheaters for a second: regular people who haven't cheated are reporting on Reddit and the official forums that Valorant fucked their PCs up so badly they had to reinstall Windows or jump through hoops to repair the damage. Regular people. Not cheaters. That's why companies can't be trusted with that level of power and why consumer rights need to be respected, because of that exact kind of shit.
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why do pc gamers allow companies to have ring 0 access to their pcs
why was that ever something people accepted
im sure if you said this to a pc gamer theyd say theres no evidence anticheat has ever been exploited or damaged someones pc/windows install and theyd call you a schizophrenic or something
 
klab said:
People are complaining about the client being bad, Vanguard causing BSODs
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Yes. That's the problem. Because Vanguard is so invasive and system-intensive, it causes software and hardware failure, or at the very least directly contributes to it. The minutia of "DMA verification" is not we're arguing about. It's that Vanguard actively fucks its users in the ass in the name of "safety."

Maybe it isn't the "DMA verification" doing it, maybe its the system bloat, or eating up the RAM, or maybe its just bad code. That's the problem with a program having so much access to your system: there are a million things that can go wrong, in a million different ways.

Even if an OS is "supposed" to do something, doing it at the wrong time or under the wrong conditions can massively fuck things up.

TL;DR invasive proprietary software is a bad thing.

acid_ra1n said:
why do pc gamers allow companies to have ring 0 access to their pcs
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For the most part, they don't. The average consumer just doesn't realize they're doing it. Nobody should ever be allowed to have Ring 0 access unless its under extremely strict circumstances and the actual owner of the PC has explicit, informed consent.

But corpos get away with doing shady shit until either they're stopped or it stops making them money.
 
klab said:
Riot changing a few flags in Windows to enforce DMA verification
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''I didn't kill him. I just gave Johnny Meatcutter a knife and told him that guy needed to die. I'm totally imnocent in this!''

CarlKingofDucks said:
Riot isn't trying to brick my car. They're not trying to brick my house. Yeah I get it, slippery slope and all that but... I just dont care.
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We just saw colleges across the country get shut down because some retarded street shitter got a phone call and compromised Canvas.

Now wait until a tranny, jeet, or girlboss screws up something and innocent people get false positived, like people playing other games like, Deadlock.



Archive.is isn't playing nice tonight, someone else can archive those.

YOU'RE TAKING TOO LONG said:
Just do want Bloons does. "Oi, you cheating? Special cheaters lobby for you. Pat pat, there's a good cheater" don't even make it obvious, just give them their own separate sandbox.
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It's worked for many games. Retards want to cheat, let them go cheat on Cheater Retard Island.

Anyone arguing that damaging hardware is acceptable is either missing the point by way of malice or stupidity, and is demonstrably unable to answer The Breakfast Question.

The issue isn't cheating hardware, it's that a VIDEO GAME COMPANY is not only shipping malware but BRAGGING about it, regardless of the reason.
 
Smithfield Ham said:
TL;DR invasive proprietary software is a bad thing.
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Invasive, proprietary software isn't a good thing, so I limit my exposure to it. But I also prefer not to 3rd-party other people's decision to interact with it. You should know what you're getting into when you install something like Vanguard. You should know what you're getting into when you install any piece of software. It doesn't matter who the software is from.
Smithfield Ham said:
Yes. That's the problem. Because Vanguard is so invasive and system-intensive, it causes software and hardware failure, or at the very least directly contributes to it. The minutia of "DMA verification" is not we're arguing about. It's that Vanguard actively fucks its users in the ass in the name of "safety."
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The only thing I've been arguing about is that it's stupid to complain about this one incident in particular (on page 4) because it has nothing to do with what makes Vanguard shit software. and that people should be allowed to do what they want with their computers.
Cheating in multiplayer games goes beyond personal use. At that point, you're affecting other people.
Revving up LOIC to try to knock someone offline, although it leverages your computer and the network you pay for, is still a bad thing to do, and it's illegal. (I don't think cheating should be made illegal.)

Locally-hosted Vanguard servers would be the best of both worlds, like how FaceIt has (or had) its own AC. Then, you can have the official servers and competitive circuits that rely on Vanguard, people enjoying the game on Linux, and HvH for fun servers like CS has.
You can disable VAC on VAC-enabled game servers you host yourself. I like that.
Pimozide said:
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Failing the breakfast question is failing to understand that there was never any hardware damage. I think you missed the part where all of the controversy of the past few days is predicated on Riot turning hardware specifically designed to cheat on Valorant into "$6,000 paperweights" because they couldn't be used to cheat on Valorant anymore. If you needed to use a DMA for legitimate reasons, you'd disable VT-d anyway.

The precedent is already there, no? Macro-enabled controllers for fighting games, lag switches, even something like SOCD on certain keyboards, etc.
There already exists hardware designed specifically to cheat at video games that are targeted, mitigated, or result in bans.
 
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klab said:
I think you missed the part where all of the controversy of the past few days is predicated on Riot turning hardware specifically designed to cheat on Valorant into "$6,000 paperweights" because they couldn't be used to cheat on Valorant anymore.
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You have been told a dozen different ways with hundreds of words that this is not where other users’ concerns lie. You are being intentionally obtuse (which is retarded) or you are simply retarded, and no inch-wide, mile-deep knowledge or thinking will conceal that
 
Pargon said:
You have been told a dozen different ways with hundreds of words that this is not where other users’ concerns lie. You are being intentionally obtuse (which is retarded) or you are simply retarded, and no inch-wide, mile-deep knowledge or thinking will conceal that
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What are your concerns, then, with software you won't install and can't be put on your computer without your choosing to do so?
Windows improving its security is a potential way to get Vanguard out of the picture. I already addressed your blackpill initially.
 
All of this is literally just a PR problem. No actual hardware damage occurs anywhere, and anti-cheat would already fuck you before this if you did something it doesn't like.
 
klab said:
What are your concerns, then, with software you won't install and can't be put on your computer without your choosing to do so?
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I don’t want this to be a practice in any way in the field of consumer softwares. I don’t want it anywhere in any product on the market regardless of region, purpose, or origin. I don’t care whether I’m buying it or not, I don’t care if you’re buying it. I don’t care if your mother is buying it. It should not be permitted by law.

Is that simple enough for you?
 
Pargon said:
I don’t want this to be a practice in any way in the field of consumer softwares. I don’t want it anywhere in any product on the market regardless of region, purpose, or origin. I don’t care whether I’m buying it or not, I don’t care if you’re buying it. I don’t care if your mother is buying it. It should not be permitted by law.

Is that simple enough for you?
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Okay? Thanks for sharing your opinion. I will tell you that enough people disagree, as they want to play online games without being cheated. Not in significant-enough numbers to ruin gaming, the market, or whatever you wish as a whole, but it's enough to where you'll have to live with some games being unplayable because being able to play them means installing software you don't want to interact with.
 
It would be nice if people could come this hard against the kernel anti cheat in Marvel Rivals or Helldivers 2 but they don't require a restart and don't scare the autists enough
 
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