Video Game Chat Thread - Pre-Alpha Experimental Version

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Are videogames for children?


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    8
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There always seems to be "death threats" these days no matter how mundane the controversy. It makes me wonder is it the same le edgy troll just meant to divert attention from the subject or real life spergs seething uncontrollably.
There are definitely people seething over this. It's always been fashionable to seethe over some fundamentally new way of storing and displaying data. Believe it or not, there was a coterie of gamers who acted like normal mapping was the coming of the Antichrist. Geometry must be encoded in wire meshes, or you're  cheating.
 
While Nvidia hypes up image-to-image generation on every frame, there are things going under the radar, like Xbox Helix / RDNA5 (and likely PS6) supporting neural texture compression, which could slash VRAM requirements even as the new consoles have around twice the memory of the current ones.
If you check out their github demos for neural texture compression, hardware filtering is unsupported so they force their temporal filtering which dithers the texture across time, and requires TAA or an upscaler like DLSS to denoise it. It also decouples shading from filtering, so normal maps are calculated before texture filtering, resulting in normal maps that are dulled and lack curved surfaces, nvidia claims this looks better.

In the demo you can switch between denoisers and every one except DLSS makes the textures appear flickery, so they are essentially going to use it to permanently make DLSS mandatory. The VRAM savings mean needing to train an ai model on the texture set which can take minutes per texture, and the savings only really win out once you go higher res than you would logically use like 4k or higher.

I am so done with modern graphics tech
 
In the demo you can switch between denoisers and every one except DLSS makes the textures appear flickery, so they are essentially going to use it to permanently make DLSS mandatory. The VRAM savings mean needing to train an ai model on the texture set which can take minutes per texture, and the savings only really win out once you go higher res than you would logically use like 4k or higher.

I am so done with modern graphics tech
I don't think DLSS will be mandatory on RDNA5-based consoles, but watch this space.
 
The VRAM savings mean needing to train an ai model on the texture set which can take minutes per texture,

Optimization takes time. A few hundred compute-hours to bring installation size down to something sane seems reasonable.
 
It's one of the biggest leaps in output quality we've ever seen. People are just mad because they like being mad.
I have enough to be mad about in my day to day without pretending to be mad at something I'm not. The video looked like shit. While it may have looked "more real" it didn't look better.
 
I have enough to be mad about in my day to day without pretending to be mad at something I'm not. The video looked like shit. While it may have looked "more real" it didn't look better.
I think it looks better, especially the scene from Oblivion Remastered. I'd like to see it applied to Super Mario Sunshine next.
 
I just saw that DORF, an upcoming RTS that's like Red Alert 2 if everything was 'to-scale', opened up a Kickstarter to raise funds after years of quiet development. It was fully funded within 14 hours.
Screenshot_20260319_085929_Brave.jpg
I know very little about Kickstarter first hand because I don't use the site, but I'm well aware it very often gets used for dodgy behaviour.

Question to people here who  do pay attention to and back things on Kickstarter:
Does this seem dodgy to you? A game in development for years suddenly putting up a KS, and then getting fully funded in half a day? Something about this rubs me the wrong way, but I don't know enough to know if this is normal.
 
I just saw that DORF, an upcoming RTS that's like Red Alert 2 if everything was 'to-scale', opened up a Kickstarter to raise funds after years of quiet development. It was fully funded within 14 hours.
View attachment 8720118
I know very little about Kickstarter first hand because I don't use the site, but I'm well aware it very often gets used for dodgy behaviour.

Question to people here who  do pay attention to and back things on Kickstarter:
Does this seem dodgy to you? A game in development for years suddenly putting up a KS, and then getting fully funded in half a day? Something about this rubs me the wrong way, but I don't know enough to know if this is normal.
If it had a large enough following it's possible. A lot of big Kickstarters get most of their funding right at the beginning.
 
If it had a large enough following it's possible
It probably does, DORF is one of the few RTSes I've seen people being pretty unanimously positive about.

That's also why I'm concerned, just in case it means something weird is happening, because it's rare a game looks like it'll 'just be good' so I'm expecting some bullshit.
 
Aren't new games basically requiring DLSS/FSR nowadays? I remember a buddy complaining that Expedition 33 forced you to use some upscaling with no truly off option. I expect this DLSS 5 shit to be the same thing, where at first its optional then its required and you only get to choose the magnitude of how smudgy everything should be. If your GPU doesn't support DLSS 5 you can rent one online for $49.99 a month.

I also noticed they didn't show off any non-human characters, moving characters/scenes, or games with an art style outside of "photo realism." I'm also entirely unconvinced that the "artist has full control" over the output. The message they keep pushing is coated in too much PR speak for it to be believable, and I highly doubt there will be enough control over the underlying image model thats provided.

One thing that is repeatedly shown in their marketing posts about the tech is that developers will be able to "mask off" parts of the scene so that DLSS 5 isn't applied to those parts. I would like to know more about what they mean by that because if half my screen looks like a normal game (with all the normal game irregularities) and the other half looks like instagram thot filter (with all the AI image gen irregularities) its going to look like a total fucking mess.

The biggest worry I have for this tech though is it will just enable CEO Goldsteinshekelberger to fire 99% of the art department (based) and then rely on whatever output you get from DLSS 5 to decide the art style (not based). So that literally every AAA/AA game will have the same look like the old "gritty brown shooter" era. I also wouldn't put it past them to make their models and textures even shittier for the non-DLSS 5 users and hoping DLSS 5 covers up the drop in quality. Sure its still "optional" in that case but we the consumers still lost out in the end.
 
The message they keep pushing is coated in too much PR speak for it to be believable, and I highly doubt there will be enough control over the underlying image model thats provided.

If they won't let the developer use their own face models & textures for input like every single other professional AI tool in existence does, I imagine developers will be reluctant to adopt it. However, given that NVIDIA has generally been far more responsive to developers than AMD or Intel over the last decade or so, I doubt that's the case.
 
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The biggest worry I have for this tech though is it will just enable CEO Goldsteinshekelberger to fire 99% of the art department (based) and then rely on whatever output you get from DLSS 5 to decide the art style (not based).
Then please explain to me what is the third alternative? Using readymade assets from the Unreal store? You're just a contrarian with no real ideas of your own, just parroting what you've seen others say without any thoughts of your own.
 
If they won't let the developer use their own face models & textures for input like every single other professional AI tool in existence does, I imagine developers will be reluctant to adopt it. However, given that NVIDIA's has generally been far more responsive to developers than AMD or Intel over the last decade or so, I doubt that's the case.
I think Nvidia releasing multiple DLSS models over the years would be the best outcome for the game developers. I could see a future where the huge AAA studios work with Nvidia to make new models that get downloaded with driver updates, and then those models enter a repository for any game to select from. Sort of like how the whole "Game ready drivers" situation works now where big releases usually accompany a driver update on the same day of release.
Then please explain to me what is the third alternative? Using readymade assets from the Unreal store? You're just a contrarian with no real ideas of your own, just parroting what you've seen others say without any thoughts of your own.
Who's talking about a third alternative? Niggers will do anything but rasterize the scene from PBR materials and geometry.

You are a 200% Vanta Black nigger with no real ideas of your own, just parroting what you've seen marketing departments say without any thoughts of your own.
 
I think Nvidia releasing multiple DLSS models over the years would be the best outcome for the game developers. I could see a future where the huge AAA studios work with Nvidia to make new models that get downloaded with driver updates, and then those models enter a repository for any game to select from. Sort of like how the whole "Game ready drivers" situation works now where big releases usually accompany a driver update on the same day of release.
Have you ever used AI? A really basic workflow is My Asset + Other asset -> output

Asset 1
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Asset 2
1773944514225.png

AI output
1773944483926.png

There are a lot more sophisticated ways to control inferencing models, like LORAs, but the point is the fear that it will be impossible for artists to have a say is overblown.

I think you also need to look in context of what came before. Starfield and Oblivion both are populated almost entirely with randomized, procedurally generated NPCs with little to manipulate beyond face sliders. How much control did artists have then? The days of artists manipulating assets at the pixel level are long behind us. Same with lighting engines, face scanners, or just about any asset creation tool.
 
Have you ever used AI?
I have as you can see from my avatar, and what I mean is that for example in ComfyUI when I prompt "Young gen-Z man in a military general uniform, ambiguous race, with broccoli hair, photorealistic style" I get significantly different responses between Model A, Model B, and Model C. No matter how you cut it if only model A were available to me my creative options have been limited. I would want the ability to load any model of my desire if I were an artist and tune literally any parameter, which is the point I was trying to make in my reply. I don't think it will be as customizable to artists as they would want, but I am happy to be proven wrong when this releases with an SDK.

randomized, procedurally generated NPCs
To be fair, while each individual output may not have been an artists vision, the range of outputs for each slider was implemented through a technical artist, which surely had a vision for what each slider would do, what sliders even exist, and so on. The choice for Bethesda to make any slider combination output a "potentially real" human versus the Dark Souls abominations is certainly a choice.

I don't think this is a point either for or against this new DLSS 5 tech, because with the DLSS 5 setting being optional for now we will still see all random NPCs being created the same way with these character creators, its just DLSS 5 will get thrown on.

The days of artists manipulating assets at the pixel level are long behind us. Same with lighting engines, face scanners, or just about any asset creation tool.
I just don't think this is true for video games as a whole. There are certainly pushes to make it true in the AAA 1000+ person development teams at these bloated studios, but I simply don't see a world where this technology works well in every game, and in every context, with every art style. And my fear is that this technology will be pushed so heavily, that the art styles where it doesn't work become old relics that never see the light of day again.

An argument against that is "Well, the Indie devs will do it themselves if its that important!" But I've been in the game dev scene long enough to know that whenever an "easier" path opens, the technologies that even enabled the previous ways to do things get neglected often to the point where they simply don't work anymore, or the barrier to entry becomes so high that the game isn't created in the first place.

Hell, as an example just last night I needed a skybox for my game. It used to be that I could just go find a CC-0 skybox image and throw it in. But now the modern engines want an HDR skybox, so I go to find an HDR skybox instead, and there are around 1/3 the options. I then find out that "skyboxes are so yesterday" and now I need something else called a cube map because using a simple tiling texture as your sky is the "old, not as good" way to do it, and so its not supported anymore. Even better, these new methods of doing a skybox effectively pick where the sun is, what color the sun light is, and so on.
 
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