War Thunder - WWII-Vietnam war Era tank and air battle game

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Nice video, Albeit it mentioned the problems with the gearbox, the way to heavy overall weight and the way to less engine power there's so much more wrong with this tank I could write an essay about it.
If you built a tank that's so wide it doesn't fit the loading gauge of the railway cars anymore and has to change it's tracks and remove its side skirts to get on the railway cars and then still can't be transported thru the tunnels on the Western Front in 1944 because the tunnels weren't big enough, you have failed miserably as tank designer. I'm not even starting with what a ridiciulous gas guzzler that tank was.
I think you could write a book on all of the Tiger II's flaws, not just an essay! However, you can't exactly fit the endless flaws of that vehicle in the space allotted by Palpatine's speech, so just go for the easiest, most concise thing.
 
I think you could write a book on all of the Tiger II's flaws, not just an essay! However, you can't exactly fit the endless flaws of that vehicle in the space allotted by Palpatine's speech, so just go for the easiest, most concise thing.
True.
But it's actually a quite fun to watch channel, short videos but still to the point. I like that guy.
 
The worst flaw of all is you can have the most badass tank ever, but it don't mean shit when the enemy can spam firepower endlessly at it. One thing I like about War Thunder RB was German mains complaining about US CAS. Sounds about right lol.
 
Don't trust whatever Johnny from PotentialHistory says about tanks because he doesn't properly research anything. If you are going to go for a normie to teach you about tanks, choose someone like Spookston, at least he provides sources and reads his shit.

Either way, the Panther wasn't an unreliable tank at all by 1944. The issues cropped up due to bad components made by concentration camp prisoners near the end, and due to terrible design at the beginning. The main problem it had was that its components weren't easily accesible and spares weren't ready available. Johnny is an idiot who believes that it would have been best to produce the Panzer IV over the Panther, despite the fact the Panther costs less than the Panzer IV and is a way better platform at the stage of the war it was involved in.

However, then came the Tiger II which was definetly unreliable and fat, but to what extent that's due to industrial sabotage and poor materials isn't quite known. Trials on the Tiger II varied wildly in results (looking at the Soviet tests in particular). It was a badly designed fuel and resource hog for sure, but it was somewhat of a counter to the IS-2 that the Soviets were beginning to field which were modified to have better armor. Also, CAS being used this heavily against tanks is a myth. Even the Maus wouldn't have gotten CAS called on it, at least in 1944.

I really can't blame the Wehraboos for being so fucking terrible at the game. Have you seen how low the research cost is for the Tiger I? Hell, they don't even have light tanks most of the time or the mobility to suggest them to flank. The game babies itself down for them and they never learn. It's more Gaijin's fault than anything. There are a number of tanks you could squeeze in the light tank role, like the Panzer III with the Waffe 0625.
 
Nice video, Albeit it mentioned the problems with the gearbox, the way to heavy overall weight and the way to less engine power there's so much more wrong with this tank I could write an essay about it.
If you built a tank that's so wide it doesn't fit the loading gauge of the railway cars anymore and has to change it's tracks and remove its side skirts to get on the railway cars and then still can't be transported thru the tunnels on the Western Front in 1944 because the tunnels weren't big enough, you have failed miserably as tank designer. I'm not even starting with what a ridiciulous gas guzzler that tank was.
Don't forgot Porsche the Retard preordering 40 turrets that were already outdated when he ordered them. The tiger 2 project is one big tribute to German exceptionalism.
 
The worst flaw of all is you can have the most badass tank ever, but it don't mean shit when the enemy can spam firepower endlessly at it. One thing I like about War Thunder RB was German mains complaining about US CAS. Sounds about right lol.
Oh my god, I loved shitting on low tier tanks with P-47s the few times my friends could drag me into combined. The absolute howls of rage from German players when you wreck their shit made suffering through that garbage game mode worth it.
 
Don't forgot Porsche the exceptional individual preordering 40 turrets that were already outdated when he ordered them. The tiger 2 project is one big tribute to German exceptionalism.
Posrche Tanks were in general absolutely rehtarded, not only the Tiger II but also the Ferdinand/Elefant or his version of the Tiger I Prototype (VK 45.01)P)). I'm not even starting about the Jadgtiger with the Porsche suspension or the Maus, both the most worthless waste of resources and development time in tank design history.
The guy should have never been allowed to even draw a tank design on a napkin!
 
Also, CAS being used this heavily against tanks is a myth. Even the Maus wouldn't have gotten CAS called on it, at least in 1944.
No. CAS was a big deal once D-day happened and the USA got airfields up and running. Even if a tank wasn't knocked-out it could be at least disabled. IRL a blown track or wrecked bogies or a jammed turret is just as much of a mission kill as an ammo detonation. There's statements from Wehrmacht forces about Brit CAS strikes completely preventing offenses since all their tanks needed to be repaired after 3" rocket strikes. There's also artillery such as in Italy, which was frequently 8" and larger shells from the US side. The 240 mm Howitzer M1 (also known as the Black Dragon) was frequently used to snipe dug-in tanks with indirect fire there.
Posrche Tanks were in general absolutely rehtarded, not only the Tiger II but also the Ferdinand/Elefant or his version of the Tiger I Prototype (VK 45.01)P)). I'm not even starting about the Jadgtiger with the Porsche suspension or the Maus, both the most worthless waste of resources and development time in tank design history.
The guy should have never been allowed to even draw a tank design on a napkin!
Hey. The Tiger (P) is a perfectly fine tank. Just as long as it doesn't get caught in the mud... or it begins overheating... or the electric drive catches fire.
 
No. CAS was a big deal once D-day happened and the USA got airfields up and running. Even if a tank wasn't knocked-out it could be at least disabled. IRL a blown track or wrecked bogies or a jammed turret is just as much of a mission kill as an ammo detonation. There's statements from Wehrmacht forces about Brit CAS strikes completely preventing offenses since all their tanks needed to be repaired after 3" rocket strikes. There's also artillery such as in Italy, which was frequently 8" and larger shells from the US side. The 240 mm Howitzer M1 (also known as the Black Dragon) was frequently used to snipe dug-in tanks with indirect fire there.

Hey. The Tiger (P) is a perfectly fine tank. Just as long as it doesn't get caught in the mud... or it begins overheating... or the electric drive catches fire.
Artillery is obvious, but CAS doesn't appear to have played a very big factor outside of British operations, and even then, it wasn't their focus as much as the usual operations for bombing and escorting. It's true that there was air superiority, but some of it seems exaggerated, at least in discussions I have had with other people who research them more than me.

I wouldn't dismiss Porsche at all, he had generally forward thinking designs at a time where materials were scarce and Hitler was getting increasingly retarded with his requests. The Tiger (P) is a decent design for a tank, and I wouldn't discredit it based on a peepeepoopoo tank destroyer modification, it wasn't built for that. With some more development time like the Panther got, it would have been perfectly usable, most of the issues arose with being relatively untried tech. Hell, the Maus was a terrible concept but it didn't suffer as badly as other superheavy designs.

Also fun fact. The Tiger II (P) is a real thing. 3 Hintern tanks got made and were somewhere in Himmelsdorf, if I recall correctly. Gaijin is holding back on adding VK vehicles, but it'll be inevitable.
 
Artillery is obvious, but CAS doesn't appear to have played a very big factor outside of British operations, and even then, it wasn't their focus as much as the usual operations for bombing and escorting. It's true that there was air superiority, but some of it seems exaggerated, at least in discussions I have had with other people who research them more than me.

I wouldn't dismiss Porsche at all, he had generally forward thinking designs at a time where materials were scarce and Hitler was getting increasingly exceptional with his requests. The Tiger (P) is a decent design for a tank, and I wouldn't discredit it based on a peepeepoopoo tank destroyer modification, it wasn't built for that. With some more development time like the Panther got, it would have been perfectly usable, most of the issues arose with being relatively untried tech. Hell, the Maus was a terrible concept but it didn't suffer as badly as other superheavy designs.

Also fun fact. The Tiger II (P) is a real thing. 3 Hintern tanks got made and were somewhere in Himmelsdorf, if I recall correctly. Gaijin is holding back on adding VK vehicles, but it'll be inevitable.
The effects of CAS are greatly exaggerated, going by official squadron logs that have them knocking out more tanks than existed in-theater at the time in a single run, but even so its disruptive effects as opposed to direct kills aren't really up for debate. There's a reason the Germans preferred adverse weather for their counter-offensives following the breakout in Operation Cobra. Arracourt in Sep. '44 is the prime example of the use of CAS, and the historical accuracy of the lack of situational awareness of German mains in WT.

Also, electric transmissions were so maintenance-heavy at the time even the USA discarded them for operational designs. They were, for the purposes of WW2, a non-starter.
 
The effects of CAS are greatly exaggerated, going by official squadron logs that have them knocking out more tanks than existed in-theater at the time in a single run, but even so its disruptive effects as opposed to direct kills aren't really up for debate. There's a reason the Germans preferred adverse weather for their counter-offensives following the breakout in Operation Cobra. Arracourt in Sep. '44 is the prime example of the use of CAS, and the historical accuracy of the lack of situational awareness of German mains in WT.

Also, electric transmissions were so maintenance-heavy at the time even the USA discarded them for operational designs. They were, for the purposes of WW2, a non-starter.
Oh absolutely, I agree with you. Although the USA isn't exactly a good metric for reliability since they basically didn't push anything until they made sure it was extremely reliable. It worked for the Sherman, but by late war they dropped the ball way too badly. Luckily, air superiority and a horde of pissed off slavs ensured it didn't matter in the long run.

I think way too much is discredited from tanktists like Porsche, Christie, and Straussler. They were forward thinking if anything. If you want to go for someone who should have gotten executed in his first go, it was Edward Grotte. You might know him from gems like the P.1000 Ratte and this abortion.

full
 
Oh absolutely, I agree with you. Although the USA isn't exactly a good metric for reliability since they basically didn't push anything until they made sure it was extremely reliable. It worked for the Sherman, but by late war they dropped the ball way too badly. Luckily, air superiority and a horde of pissed off slavs ensured it didn't matter in the long run.

I think way too much is discredited from tanktists like Porsche, Christie, and Straussler. They were forward thinking if anything. If you want to go for someone who should have gotten executed in his first go, it was Edward Grotte. You might know him from gems like the P.1000 Ratte and this abortion.

full
By late-war you mean the Pershing, right? That's less to do with design and testing and more to do with failures of intelligence regarding the Panther (we figured it was a new heavy tank given its size, armor profile, armament, and extremely limited numbers in the West) and McNair pushing hard for TD's and the 3-inch gun. So, a complete lack of R&D focus on the Sherman's successor lead to us rushing something that could be cobbled-together from on-hand designs to Europe with inadequate training and supplies. The fact such a design was "only" as reliable as the Panther is a testament to American engineering.

Also, I don't know what that is, but I hate it.
 
The Virgin WWII Germanophile vs the Chad WWI Teutonophile

How about that up-engined Fokker D.VII rocking the high altitude BMW?
 
By late-war you mean the Pershing, right? That's less to do with design and testing and more to do with failures of intelligence regarding the Panther (we figured it was a new heavy tank given its size, armor profile, armament, and extremely limited numbers in the West) and McNair pushing hard for TD's and the 3-inch gun. So, a complete lack of R&D focus on the Sherman's successor lead to us rushing something that could be cobbled-together from on-hand designs to Europe with inadequate training and supplies. The fact such a design was "only" as reliable as the Panther is a testament to American engineering.

Also, I don't know what that is, but I hate it.
Not just the Pershing, but the entire heavy tank debacle. I wouldn't say the Pershing is a testament to anything, actually. The 90mm guns the US had were pretty shitty all things considered. It could stand up to the Panther, but even then they steered to the long 90mm pretty quickly. The only reason the Pershing is seen as more reliably is really just component accesibility and spare parts. Which factors in, sure, but it's not a miracle, it's more just things taken into consideration since the days of the M3 (Lee).

That tank is the Tank Grotte-1 or TG-1. In an impressive, autism and pervitin fueled trip to Soviet Russia, Edward Grotte stuck a 76, a 37, and a bunch of machine guns into a Christie suspension based medium tank. It was considered technologically amazing, highly mobile, and very potently armed, but if you consider Porsche's designs to be unreliable, then this exceptional individual's designs were just unworkable at any time in history. It's one of the most interesting tank reads, honestly.
How about that up-engined Fokker D.VII rocking the high altitude BMW?
If we are also going for one off autismfests but for planes, War Thunder already has the Morko Morane. Which speaking of, is one of the best planes I ever used when I was able to play the game. Equip cermet core rounds and you can instakill everything.
 
Not just the Pershing, but the entire heavy tank debacle. I wouldn't say the Pershing is a testament to anything, actually. The 90mm guns the US had were pretty shitty all things considered. It could stand up to the Panther, but even then they steered to the long 90mm pretty quickly. The only reason the Pershing is seen as more reliably is really just component accesibility and spare parts. Which factors in, sure, but it's not a miracle, it's more just things taken into consideration since the days of the M3 (Lee).
The heavy tanks that were more proofs of concept than anything else? Even so, you seem to have overlooked the T32, which was a King Tiger with more armor and less weight. And the 90mm guns were let down by poor ammo made of relatively soft steel. The late-war T33 that was heat-treated in the fires of Mount Doom let the short 90mm tear through the Panther's UFP at over 900m. And with APCR its penetration was only marginally worse than the long 88's APCR performance. The performance of US shells in WT is so hilariously abysmal compared to IRL it isn't even funny.
 
M3 90mm shitty? By what standards? Are we talking specific ammo because the gun itself is just fine.
And the 90mm guns were let down by poor ammo made of relatively soft steel.
Yes, I'm talking about the 90mm M3 generally, but the "heat treated T33" thing is a myth made up from what I can tell by either Laurelix or some other exceptional US report, because T33 has the same velocity and shell weight as other M3 shells. It's physically impossible to squeeze enough penetration from it to penetrate the Panther UFP using just full caliber AP rounds, unless you factor in faulty later war armor. The T30 HVAP is fine, sure, but APCR wasn't readily available for any country and it's an extreme case.

It's not too different from a short 88, which is also hilariously powerful in War Thunder because of the also terrible penetration calculator. DeMarre doesn't work perfectly for every shell, and War Thunder bases its DeMarre off a literal block, not a shell shape. There are differences in armor penetration figure methods, but none account for a 120mm-150mm of penetration shell going up to 173mm of penetration on either gun.

By the way on another note, someone should make a thread on Laurelix. He's a perfect lolcow with his endless infatuation with T33 and other exceptional behavior like pretending a picture of Ariana Grande's feet was his girlfriend's.
 
Yes, I'm talking about the 90mm M3 generally, but the "heat treated T33" thing is a myth made up from what I can tell by either Laurelix or some other exceptional US report, because T33 has the same velocity and shell weight as other M3 shells.
You legitimately have no idea what you're talking about here. Relative hardness has always had a substantial impact on penetration. The entire reason face-hardened armor was used was because it would cause a softer round to break apart on impact (hence the development of AP caps). Conversely, a high-hardness projectile would cause the armor plate to break apart upon impact. I have no idea who this Laurelix person is, but here, have a snip that should help:
1635946547106.png

If you're wondering why the higher-velocity 90mm APCBC round has much better performance than the velocity increase would seem to justify, its because the later rounds had an improved AP cap with greater hardness, as well as a superior windscreen for better ballistics. The T33 rounds had no cap (which explains their superior performance against homogenous versus FH armor), however the higher-quality, harder steel involved allowed it to resist impact deformation better than the earlier M77.
 
You legitimately have no idea what you're talking about here. Relative hardness has always had a substantial impact on penetration. The entire reason face-hardened armor was used was because it would cause a softer round to break apart on impact (hence the development of AP caps). Conversely, a high-hardness projectile would cause the armor plate to break apart upon impact. I have no idea who this Laurelix person is, but here, have a snip that should help:

If you're wondering why the higher-velocity 90mm APCBC round has much better performance than the velocity increase would seem to justify, its because the later rounds had an improved AP cap with greater hardness, as well as a superior windscreen for better ballistics. The T33 rounds had no cap (which explains their superior performance against homogenous versus FH armor), however the higher-quality, harder steel involved allowed it to resist impact deformation better than the earlier M77.
No, you have no idea what you are talking about here. That's the exact asspulled table where Laurelix gets his extremely wonky figures from, where he claims the T33 is some holy grail round, and he is ridiculed for the exact same reason: it's not a trustworthy source. You can read about some of their failures here.


This site is usually a better source for information on gun ballistics because it goes with first hand US Army sources, not two speds making books. The problem is if you think about it for more than two seconds, the 40-60mm of increased penetration in the regular M77 shot over the KwK 36 make no sense. Similar shell weight, muzzle velocity and the KwK 36 was fully capped. Sure, maybe it edges out by even 20mm, but 60mm is retarded. It can't be stated enough though, that book is extremely unreliable and you shouldn't use it as a source for any argument, because it has been disproven continually and it isn't based on original Army sources. And even then some Army sources aren't exactly excellent.

By the way, the Brit and American reports on the Panther being penetrated by T33 frontally were done with late war Panthers, we're talking about 1945 here. Metal quality was definetly not that good and tolerances were rather low, and maybe the armor was actually thinner than it was meant to. Some Panthers had grossly thickened armor, up to 90mm-95mm on the frontal plate, and it's not wrong to assume a fair few had faulty welding/compositions due to lack of resources, and even thinner armor.

Now, I am not entirely an expert on US ammo, really, I'm more into French vehicles, and this is getting off-topic. I'll just agree to disagree at this point because this is getting really spergy.
 
Decided to try a new lineup - french 6.7/7.0 mediums. I really enjoy the m4 sa50 and fl10, but these higher tier ones aren't quite clicking yet. Could be the stock modules, though.
 
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