Warhammer 40k

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Admech can't catch a break. First you find a bunch of un augmented underhiver scum gets a STC that can make completely new shit, then you find a race of manlets have a whole network of them.
I find the new lore has been pretty explosive over the past years, to a ridiculous extent: Cadia asplode, Rowboat Girlyman back in charge, STCs gone for ten thousand years but now there’s a bunch, squats are back, chaos is kinda maybe sorta in trouble because of Yvraine, an honest-to-goodness Man of Iron dicking around hoping to fuck a Blackstone Fortress, the astronomican winking out and plunging the Imperium into a second Old Night (lol jk indomitus crusade for 200 years).

I’m just waiting for Emps to finally wake up but the first thing he says is “YO” in Alf’s voice.
 
I find the new lore has been pretty explosive over the past years, to a ridiculous extent: Cadia asplode, Rowboat Girlyman back in charge, STCs gone for ten thousand years but now there’s a bunch, squats are back, chaos is kinda maybe sorta in trouble because of Yvraine, an honest-to-goodness Man of Iron dicking around hoping to fuck a Blackstone Fortress, the astronomican winking out and plunging the Imperium into a second Old Night (lol jk indomitus crusade for 200 years).

I’m just waiting for Emps to finally wake up but the first thing he says is “YO” in Alf’s voice.
You know speaking of expanding lore I don't anyone here really talked about who we want the next loyalist primarch to return to be and and who we think it'll be.

Starting off, I kind of want Russ or Corax to return because those two would probably shake the imperium the most since Corax is literally a demeon crow now and Russ might actually declare war on the inquisition once he learns about the months of shame.
But in all likelihood its probably going to be the lion, and he's probably just gonna split the imperium with papa smurf so GW can just crib from the roman empire splitting between east and west
 
But in all likelihood its probably going to be the lion, and he's probably just gonna split the imperium with papa smurf so GW can just crib from the roman empire splitting between east and west
Hey already did that with Dante, unless something happened to the poor guy and I missed it?

Personally I'm hoping its Vulkan. "Wow, things really went to shit while I was gone..." If any of the Primarchs would be willing to break the Imperium in even more pieces it would him, and for entirely understandable reasons.
"Yo, Roboute, what the fuck is going on here? Give me one good reason I shouldn't commence Hammertime on 90% of the Adeptus Terra for turning the Imperium into a shithole. And that includes you, since you seem to just happy ruling at your own pace." That said I can totally see him and Russ agreeing to do a double-team on general principles. Once he understands the Wolves realized being the Emperor's Headsmen was really a pretty shitty way of doing things, of course.
I’m just waiting for Emps to finally wake up but the first thing he says is “YO” in Alf’s voice.
No.
"ABOUT FUCKING TIME. I HAVE SO MANY THINGS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT."
 
I find the new lore has been pretty explosive over the past years, to a ridiculous extent: Cadia asplode, Rowboat Girlyman back in charge, STCs gone for ten thousand years but now there’s a bunch, squats are back, chaos is kinda maybe sorta in trouble because of Yvraine, an honest-to-goodness Man of Iron dicking around hoping to fuck a Blackstone Fortress, the astronomican winking out and plunging the Imperium into a second Old Night (lol jk indomitus crusade for 200 years).

I’m just waiting for Emps to finally wake up but the first thing he says is “YO” in Alf’s voice.
I consider it less lore and more metaplot. The lore is the setting. But fans can't be happy with that so they screamed for years for gm to advance 'the story'.

It's annoying - one of the great themes behind 40k is that there are things to largescale for a single dude (protagonist) to affect. "To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions."
You also see this in the thematics behind the Chaos gods. Part of them represent something inevitable, or the defiance against something inevitable.

There's also the thing where GW has intentionally made things a lot less grim dark over the years and a lot more friendly and heroic in order to make the game have more mass appeal. Which fair to them seem to have worked. But it has also watered things down a bit.
 
I consider it less lore and more metaplot. The lore is the setting. But fans can't be happy with that so they screamed for years for gm to advance 'the story'.

It's annoying - one of the great themes behind 40k is that there are things to largescale for a single dude (protagonist) to affect. "To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions."
You also see this in the thematics behind the Chaos gods. Part of them represent something inevitable, or the defiance against something inevitable.

There's also the thing where GW has intentionally made things a lot less grim dark over the years and a lot more friendly and heroic in order to make the game have more mass appeal. Which fair to them seem to have worked. But it has also watered things down a bit.
Yeah but I also seen more guys start to criticize 40k

I had a friend looking into 40k say every codex is

"Captain Quandale Dingle of the Dingle Hawks fights off the murder rape chaos warband on Stringabt V. Billions die in the assault but the imperium some how holds however….chaos truly won"

And repeat most of that. I understand the gripes for 7th editions lore movement but if other franchises can push a setting and a story just fine I don’t see how 40k can’t. You still have a lot of background to play with indomintus, ultimia founding, chaos being more active, andcadian refugees. Also GW seems to be holding back on moving the timeline as much now with the recent timeline retcons.
 
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The Lion is almost assured to be the next primarch when GW decides to have a big twist to ramp up sales. While it won't be an outright Imperium divide (since no one fucking trusts Dark Angels) it will set up a lot of intrigue and politicking for future media.

Guilliman returned because the Imperium got beat so much that GW needed an excuse why it doesn't outright fall apart from all its threats. Narrative wise most other primarchs will either just defer to Guilliman or are too insignificant to cause real drama.
 
The Lion is almost assured to be the next primarch when GW decides to have a big twist to ramp up sales. While it won't be an outright Imperium divide (since no one fucking trusts Dark Angels) it will set up a lot of intrigue and politicking for future media.
I see The Lion or Vulkan returning more of a possibility than the others (at least right away).
 
I see The Lion or Vulkan returning more of a possibility than the others (at least right away).
The problem with Vulkan is that he is more of a meme than a character. He (officially) has only one chapter to his name and didn't argue with Gil when the Codex Astartes came out.
A more realistic second place is Dorn since he butt head with Gil and has a ton of chapters under his name. Problem is that he cares more about his failure than leadership.
 
There's also the thing where GW has intentionally made things a lot less grim dark over the years and a lot more friendly and heroic in order to make the game have more mass appeal. Which fair to them seem to have worked. But it has also watered things down a bit.
They can mass-appeal their asses all they want, the ever-increasing price of the hobby itself is an ironclad gatekeeping measure.
 
Experimenting with a tarnished silver look for the bell today. It was a 3: 2: 1 mix of leadbelcher, casandora yellow & medium.
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Yeah but I also seen more guys start to criticize 40k

I had a friend looking into 40k say every codex is

"Captain Quandale Dingle of the Dingle Hawks fights off the murder rape chaos warband on Stringabt V. Billions die in the assault but the imperium some how holds however….chaos truly won"

And repeat most of that. I understand the gripes for 7th editions lore movement but if other franchises can push a setting and a story just fine I don’t see how 40k can’t. You still have a lot of background to play with indomintus, ultimia founding, chaos being more active, andcadian refugees. Also GW seems to be holding back on moving the timeline as much now with the recent timeline retcons.
It does feel pointless to buy new codexes when 90% of it is just repeats of previous lore or empty fluff and the rules get changed within months of release anyway.
They can mass-appeal their asses all they want, the ever-increasing price of the hobby itself is an ironclad gatekeeping measure.
People have been saying this for years but it doesn't seem to matter.

There's a marketing effect where when you have something at a high price people tend to buy it more because they value it higher, whereas if you sell it dirt cheap people stop caring about it. That's probably what is going on with gw.

I think they're going to grow in the next few years, the lore being a little blander probably don't matter to much as long as the models look nice and the rules work(they don't even need to work well). Lore people probably are more into buying books than playing the game anyway. Though if they shrank I wouldn't be surprised either, cuz 3d printing and one million competitors.
 
Speaking of lore, I never really like the Horus heresy getting novelized. I mean exploring DA TRU history behind the myth is cool and all but from what I have gleaned, the events of 30k are a mostly faithful retelling.

The Emperor and the Primarchs are in fact demigods, Sanguinius did in fact have literal angel wings and the society of the Great crusade Imperium is pretty much unchanged (everyone swinging the space-temple look on their ships and stuff) even though everyone speaks like a stuck up Reddit atheist, cuz muh irony lol lmao!!

I think instead it should've been something like the whole thing being much more mundane: the real Emperor was an ordinary transhuman warlord that was oddly benevolent (though ironically his comatose near-corpse now actually is a very powerful god, because the warp works on feelings and belief and it's got an entire interstellar empire that basically exists to empower it)

the real Primarchs were just gifted rulers and scholars and the like which he recruited as the GC went on and became his greatest generals, after the Heresy as history passed into myth, the Emperor became deified and the Primarchs became deified with him and so the scattering/Emperor's Sons story was invented to explain their supposed divine origin,

the Space Marine gene-seeds were unspectacular conventional biotech, which the current Imperium has long ago lost a lot of the knowledge involved, but can still imperfectly replicate the procedure in a cargo-cult fashion, and has mythologized its origins. Though thanks to the warp, the gene-seeds have become far more mystical...

I'd also have GC-era Imperium have an aesthetic much more resembling Some generic mil-sci-fi setting. This could lead to some neat short story abt a rogue trader team stumbling upon some derelict ship from that time. The derelict would have an aesthetic like the Nostromo from Alien, functional and industrial and with a hint of the "space cathedral" look but as something that emerges naturally from the vast impersonal machinery of the ship, without the baroque quality that 40K-era Imperial ships have.

They'd find things that look kind of like power swords, power fists, etc., but in the tool lockers. They could stumble upon what appears to be Space marine power armor but with all the holy symbols and purity seals and other such spiritual decor sanded off of it, They'd access the ship's logs and personal diaries of the crew and notice some odd things, like the names of Primarchs rolling easily off the tongues of the former crew, Them being addressed not as the demigods they have become by the time of the Grim-darkness of the far future but as modern-day pencil pushers and politicians. They could uncover one log where the captain or whatever is griping abt why 'He' chose some superstitious upstart named Lorgar (or leman) as one of his Primarchs, with the shocked and confused rogue traders wondering if they're dealing with warpshit here (they aren't).

The conceit would be to imply that the early Imperium was a profoundly different sort of society from the 40K Imperium, in a way that 40K-era humans might not pick up on but real-world readers would. It would also hammer in the theme of deterioration present throughout the setting.
 
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Speaking of lore, I never really like the Horus heresy getting novelized. I mean exploring DA TRU history behind the myth is cool and all but from what I have gleaned, the events of 30k are a mostly faithful retelling.

The Emperor and the Primarchs are in fact demigods, Sanguinius did in fact have literal angel wings and the society of the Great crusade Imperium is pretty much unchanged (everyone swinging the space-temple look on their ships and stuff) even though everyone speaks like a stuck up Reddit atheist, cuz muh irony lol lmao!!
I think instead it should've been something like have the whole thing having been much more mundane: the real Emperor was an ordinary transhuman warlord that was oddly benevolent (though ironically his comatose near-corpse now actually is a very powerful god, because the warp works on feelings and belief and it's got an entire interstellar empire that basically exists to empower it)

the real Primarchs were just gifted rulers and scholars and the like which he recruited as the GC went on and became his greatest generals, after the Heresy as history passed into myth the Emperor became deified and the Primarchs became deified with him and the scattering/Emperor's Sons story was invented to explain their supposed divine origin,

the Space Marine geneseeds were unspectacular conventional biotech; which the current Imperium has long ago lost a lot of the knowledge involved, but can still imperfectly replicate the procedure in a cargo-cult fashion, and has mythologized its origins. It fits with the deteriorist themes of the setting. Though thanks to the warp, the geneseeds have become far more mystical...

I'd also have GC-era Imperium have an aesthetic much more resembling Some generic mil-sci-fi setting. This could lead to some neat short story abt a rogue trader team stumbling upon some derelict ship from that time. The derelict would have an aesthetic like the Nostromo from Alien, functional and industrial and with a hint of the "space cathedral" look but as something that emerges naturally from the vast impersonal machinery of the ship, without the baroque quality that 40K-era Imperial ships have. They'd find things that look kind of like power swords, power fists, etc., but in the tool lockers. They'd access the ship's logs and personal diaries of the crew and notice some odd things, like the names of Primarchs rolling easily off the tongues of the former crew. Them being addressed not as the demigods they have become by the time of the Grim-darkness of the far future but as modern-day pencil pushers and politicians.

The conceit would be to imply that the early Imperium was a profoundly different sort of society from the 40K Imperium, in a way that 40K-era humans might not pick up on but real-world readers would.
I wholly agree but I suspect it'd have sold less books.

It would have opened up for introducing various interim era's though, detailing the imperiums decline into its 40k state.
 
There's a marketing effect where when you have something at a high price people tend to buy it more because they value it higher, whereas if you sell it dirt cheap people stop caring about it. That's probably what is going on with gw.
that only works so far, new people look at the price and go "yeah, nah" - just look at fantasy. it's a fine line between milking your existing customers and be appealing to new blood you inevitably need to replace people dropping out, especially since new blood isn't locked into the platform (much less likely for someone to quit warhammer who dumped every second paycheck into it the last 10 years) and isn't necessarily interested in the game in the first place - let's be honest, 40k is hardly accessible enough for casuals, and the people who take it up the ass with rule changes and buy new plastic based on that are mostly the mentioned locked in "players".

I wholly agree but I suspect it'd have sold less books.

It would have opened up for introducing various interim era's though, detailing the imperiums decline into its 40k state.
for me the whole HH milking and 30k always felt like modern reboots and remakes since it's piss easy to do and guaranteed sales.
 
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that only works so far, new people look at the price and go "yeah, nah" - just look at fantasy. it's a fine line between milking your existing customers and be appealing to new blood you inevitably need to replace people dropping out, especially since new blood isn't locked into the platform (much less likely for someone to quit warhammer who dumped every second paycheck into it the last 10 years) and isn't necessarily interested in the game in the first place - let's be honest, 40k is hardly accessible enough for casuals, and the people who take it up the ass with rule changes and buy new plastic based on that are mostly the mentioned locked in "players".


for me the whole HH milking and 30k always feels like modern reboots and remakes since it's piss easy to do and guaranteed sales.
I've only read the Ciaphas Caine books in 40k, those were fun.
Also, it's weird that the main focus of the whole damn series, Horus Lupercal himself fell to chaos WAY too quickly, and has been pretty much sidelined.
Chaos has been sidelined. It literally only matters to the human faction all other major races don't give a fuck about chaos. Even eldar only gets used as a punching bag. Chaos corruption is a joke.
 
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