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Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
Specifically after ADB. The whole self insert thousand son wizard with his "author's barely disguised fetish" of a sexy bird lady chained to his will or whatever.

Guilliman, who I love and adore, was never considered above maybe 13th in terms of fighting ability for Primarchs. Yet Guilliman was able to dispatch, with effort and close calls, a dozen Alpha Legion astartes in full plate while wearing a toga AND they had the element of surprise as they were masquerading as Aeonid Thiels goon squad.

Now Abaddon was a superlative fighter during the crusade but as seen in Saturnine he was almost defeated. Yes it took some Mary Sue wankery of the Riven Hound and the Blood Angel I can't remember dying and pinning him to a wall just so that Garro could almost finish him prior to teleportation but that was astartes on astartes.

The idea that Abbadon in a one on one with a naked Horus would win is bullshit. I dunno it's just gay to me. Cloning is gay but Abaddon wankery is worse.

My back of the napkin primarch fighting ranks in descending order *not scientific nor is there a real difference in the top seven* Kurze, Horus, Vulkan, Angron, Russ, Sanguinis, the Lion, the Khan, Mortarian, Fulgrim, Ferrus, Dorn, Perturabo, Corax, Guilliman, Alpharius, Magnus, Lorgar,
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IIRC, Clone Horus was kicking everyone's ass effortlessly until it recognized Abaddon somehow and stopped fighting to call him "my son", and Abby seized the opening to kebab it with the Talon and empty the combi-bolter into its chest. Makes more sense than Abaddon winning a straight fight, though not by much.

Also, I question Curze being at the top of that list. Vulkan and the Lion both kicked the shit out of him on even ground and Corswain was able to put a sword through his back when things went to shit at Tsagualsa. The only time he won against any of his brothers was when he was able to use ambush/stealth tactics. Personally, I'd rank them like so: Horus, Sanguinius, the Lion, Angron, Russ, Fulgrim, Jaghatai, Dorn, Ferrus, Vulkan, Guilliman, Mortarion, Perturabo, Corax, Curze, Alpharius/Omegon, Magnus, Lorgar.
 
@Second Missing Primarch I only have Curze a high rank since in the lore others stated that he'd be a nightmare to fight since he was so batshit ruthless and crazy. He jacked up Dorn but granted that was a sucker punch attack. The Lion didn't beat him clean and gave him fits.

You're list is solid especially the bottom half. In hindsight I over ranked Mortarian (gave him too much credit for his "endurance" and under ranked Ferrus. Your list is solid but again I'd say the top 7 are just shades of the same tier.
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
@Second Missing Primarch I only have Curze a high rank since in the lore others stated that he'd be a nightmare to fight since he was so batshit ruthless and crazy. He jacked up Dorn but granted that was a sucker punch attack. The Lion didn't beat him clean and gave him fits.

You're list is solid especially the bottom half. In hindsight I over ranked Mortarian (gave him too much credit for his "endurance" and under ranked Ferrus. Your list is solid but again I'd say the top 7 are just shades of the same tier.
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I'm not sure where I'd put Vulkan on account of the fact anything he makes is actually a hammer. Teleporter? Hammer. Hammer? He's hidden a second retractable hammer in the hilt just in case the head breaks. You may think you're winning because he's disarmed and his force field device is broken and then next thing you know he's yanked his broken shield generator off his armor and is now beating you in the face with its conveniently hammer-shaped exterior.
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
The whole self insert thousand son wizard with his "author's barely disguised fetish" of a sexy bird lady chained to his will or whatever.
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Wait, what?
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
@Second Missing Primarch I only have Curze a high rank since in the lore others stated that he'd be a nightmare to fight since he was so batshit ruthless and crazy. He jacked up Dorn but granted that was a sucker punch attack. The Lion didn't beat him clean and gave him fits.

You're list is solid especially the bottom half. In hindsight I over ranked Mortarian (gave him too much credit for his "endurance" and under ranked Ferrus. Your list is solid but again I'd say the top 7 are just shades of the same tier.
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Kurze is the usual Batman bullshit of "if you let him have every advantage possible as well as several years in advance to prepare and have his opponent not be prepared" then he wins.

My list:
Strongest: Sang
A tier: Horus, Russ
B tier: Magnus, Vulcan, Fulgrim, Angron
C tier: Everyone else
D tier: Alpharius, Mortarion, Corax, Perturabo
Weakest: Lorgar

Angron probably will be A tier if he had the sense to use strategy.
 
Snekposter said:
Wait, what?
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That would be Iskandar Khayon, an ex-Thousand Son who defected to the Black Legion because he decided Magnus sucked and wanted in on the Long War. He's the narrator of ADB's Black Legion novel, and the way he's written in the book tends to make him come off as being a Mary Sue/mouthpiece for ADB's pro-Chaos views, though he also has some legitimately good character moments that make him more three-dimensional. ADB is fond of narrators who are unreliable or who have filtered everything through their own perspective, so it's probably best to assume that Khayon is at least partly full of shit when he says things like "Chaos is destined to win the war against the Imperium" and "I personally made Magnus bitch down before Abaddon". That said, ADB also gave Khayon a totally loyal daemon familiar, a deck of magic Yugioh cards that he can use to summon even more daemons, a super-special force blade made from the remains of Sanguinius' sword, and his big tiddy DEldar Scourge gf who can solo entire Marine squads and somehow survive in the Eye of Terror thanks to a bullshit magic ritual Khayon pulled out of his power-armored ass. When someone complained about him using a Scourge on Reddit for lore-related reasons, he immediately went "well, the tabletop isn't everything and she's actually better than a Scourge and is totally different and unique and special, duh", and apparently didn't see the obvious problems with that statement.

Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
@Second Missing Primarch I only have Curze a high rank since in the lore others stated that he'd be a nightmare to fight since he was so batshit ruthless and crazy. He jacked up Dorn but granted that was a sucker punch attack. The Lion didn't beat him clean and gave him fits.

You're list is solid especially the bottom half. In hindsight I over ranked Mortarian (gave him too much credit for his "endurance" and under ranked Ferrus. Your list is solid but again I'd say the top 7 are just shades of the same tier.
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I think it's easy to underrate Ferrus because we never see much of him and Fulgrim beat him twice, first with a sucker punch and then thanks to daemon shenanigans (IIRC Ferrus was actually winning their final duel at one point and then the daemon in the Laer Blade started juicing Fulgrim up so he wouldn't lose). I struggled with ranking Morty because the only time we see him fight one of his brothers pre-daemon princedom was Jaghatai and that was technically a draw, but then the Khan gave him serious trouble even when he was a daemon prince and Guilliman wasn't doing terribly against him on Iax before he got hit with the Godblight. If anything, I feel like Rowboat gets underrated because he keeps tying/losing to daemon primarchs.
 
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Second Missing Primarch said:
That would be Iskandar Khayon, an ex-Thousand Son who defected to the Black Legion because he decided Magnus sucked and wanted in on the Long War. He's the narrator of ADB's Black Legion novel, and the way he's written in the book tends to make him come off as being a Mary Sue/mouthpiece for ADB's pro-Chaos views, though he also has some legitimately good character moments that make him more three-dimensional. ADB is fond of narrators who are unreliable or who have filtered everything through their own perspective, so it's probably best to assume that Khayon is at least partly full of shit when he says things like "Chaos is destined to win the war against the Imperium" and "I personally made Magnus bitch down before Abaddon". That said, ADB also gave Khayon a totally loyal daemon familiar, a deck of magic Yugioh cards that he can use to summon even more daemons, a super-special force blade made from the remains of Sanguinius' sword, and his big tiddy DEldar Scourge gf who can solo entire Marine squads and somehow survive in the Eye of Terror thanks to a bullshit magic ritual Khayon pulled out of his power-armored ass. When someone complained about him using a Scourge on Reddit for lore-related reasons, he immediately went "well, the tabletop isn't everything and she's actually better than a Scourge and is totally different and unique and special, duh", and didn't see the obvious problems with that statement. In other words, yes, he totally did write himself a pair of OC DONUT STEELS, but Khayon is at least a more well-rounded DONUT STEEL than, say, Ward-era Cato Sicarius or Kaldor Draigo. No excuses for the DEldar, though.
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Shit, that's pretty faggy. Although I do like birdwaifus, monster girl connoisseur that I am.
 
Snekposter said:
Shit, that's pretty faggy. Although I do like birdwaifus, monster girl connoisseur that I am.
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Yeah, it definitely came across as wish-fulfillment. People weren't pleased. He's also gotten called out for other characters who come across the same way, like the chapter serf in Spears of the Emperor who has a top-quality augmetic eye and a digital weapon and vortex grenades and a bunch of other super-rare and super-cool shit despite being just a regular-ass serf.
 
I forgive ADB pretty much anything for the following passage:

The Champion showed no reaction. He didn’t even move. ‘I knew that warrior,’ he said with solemn care. ‘He was Caleus, born of Newfound, and I know he died as he lived: with courage, honour, and knowing no fear.’

Xarl swept his chainsword across the scene, gesturing at the prone forms of First Claw. ‘I know all of these warriors. They are First Claw, and I know they’ll die as they lived: trying to run away.’
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Honest to God the only time I can ever remember laughing out loud at a BL novel
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
Specifically after ADB. The whole self insert thousand son wizard with his "author's barely disguised fetish" of a sexy bird lady chained to his will or whatever.

Guilliman, who I love and adore, was never considered above maybe 13th in terms of fighting ability for Primarchs. Yet Guilliman was able to dispatch, with effort and close calls, a dozen Alpha Legion astartes in full plate while wearing a toga AND they had the element of surprise as they were masquerading as Aeonid Thiels goon squad.

Now Abaddon was a superlative fighter during the crusade but as seen in Saturnine he was almost defeated. Yes it took some Mary Sue wankery of the Riven Hound and the Blood Angel I can't remember dying and pinning him to a wall just so that Garro could almost finish him prior to teleportation but that was astartes on astartes.

The idea that Abbadon in a one on one with a naked Horus would win is bullshit. I dunno it's just gay to me. Cloning is gay but Abaddon wankery is worse.

My back of the napkin primarch fighting ranks in descending order *not scientific nor is there a real difference in the top seven* Kurze, Horus, Vulkan, Angron, Russ, Sanguinis, the Lion, the Khan, Mortarian, Fulgrim, Ferrus, Dorn, Perturabo, Corax, Guilliman, Alpharius, Magnus, Lorgar,
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>Kurze first after spending the entire horus heresy getting mogged in every single direct fight he ever had.
>sanguinius 4th after beating Kabanda and Daemon primarch angron back to back, also being able to kill warhound titans in a single cut
>Magnus near the bottom yet can destroy giant monsters without touching them
>lion that low
>Alpharius above magnus lol
Also you need to have a distinction between normal Horus and ascended Horus.

The real list would be
-pre heresy
1. Sanguinius
2. The Lion
3. would be a competition between Angron, Magnus, and Leman

-End of heresy
1. Horus Ascended
2. Sanguinius
3. insert a demon primarch here.
 
Lorgar was about to get his ass whipped by Corax and would likely would have died had Kurze not interfered. Although, he did manage to wrangle Fulgrim at a Pleasure World nonetheless. Still got his ass beat by Horus, though.
As for Angron, I would rank him lower than Sanguinius and Perturabo. This is after he became a Daemon Primarch, too, and he lost to both of them.
 
Love Machine said:
>Kurze first after spending the entire horus heresy getting mogged in every single direct fight he ever had.
>sanguinius 4th after beating Kabanda and Daemon primarch angron back to back, also being able to kill warhound titans in a single cut
>Magnus near the bottom yet can destroy giant monsters without touching them
>lion that low
>Alpharius above magnus lol
Also you need to have a distinction between normal Horus and ascended Horus.
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Sorry I shouldn't have said "In descending order" as the top 7 were basically all tied. Lion is definitely one of the best pure fighters. For Magnus I was rating on pure martial skill with arms not warp power.
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
Sorry I shouldn't have said "In descending order" as the top 7 were basically all tied. Lion is definitely one of the best pure fighters. For Magnus I was rating on pure martial skill with arms not warp power.
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Konrad gets his powers but Magnus doesnt? Fucked up.
 
Angron is about to go lower down on that list because the Lion is about to fuck his shit up.

Still don't know what to think of the lore though, that he was "operating on the down low." Is not the most believable since he is a primark and a unit. I would have thought the legions of chaos would have remembered he was there.

The model is gorgeous though and I will paint the shit out of that. Since it can sit on the primark shelf.
 
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