Warhammer 40k

[Frank(en) Castle]

3. What happens to the marines post war is a big question pretty much everyone is afraid to ask. The possible answer from pure cope "we'll get equal rights" (Ultrmarines), slight optimism "become constant garrison duty" (Death Guard), and resignation "we're all going to be culled" (World Eaters).

Which is pretty funny that there was a spectrum like that. Did they all forget what the Dark Angels did to the Thunder Warriors?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Which is pretty funny that there was a spectrum like that. Did they all forget what the Dark Angels did to the Thunder Warriors?

That's pretty much the main argument of the third idea. Granted the Thunder Warriors were complete berzerkers who routinely blew up from their drug fueled body, so it's not like they had a future anyways. Just that their deaths was used as something more symbolic.

 

[Picnic_Boy]

So with the Beastmen being gutted from AoS, and thrown into TOW does that mean the Ogre Kingdoms are at risk too? I guess that would depend if it is true that they don't want models to cross between games.

They wouldn't do that, not after releasing a boxed set with Ogres in it a few years ago.

Oh who am I kidding. Yes, they'll probably do just that to make room for the inevitable 4th elf faction.

 

[Buckaroo]

Which is pretty funny that there was a spectrum like that. Did they all forget what the Dark Angels did to the Thunder Warriors?

Guilliman made a point of having his marines learn non-combat skills so they could have a use after the war to keep from being culled, so he absolutely knew but was huffing extra strength copium and hopium.

 

[Male Idiot]

What would cull the marines? 30k Imperium is so badly thought out.

The Thunder Warriors were hit after they all got in one place and decimated, how do you do that with 18 legions all over the galaxy? You can't even use a bioweapon as they are based on the Emprah's genes. Custodes aren't enough, if they were, they would have curbstomped Horus.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

Guilliman made a point of having his marines learn non-combat skills so they could have a use after the war to keep from being culled, so he absolutely knew but was huffing extra strength copium and hopium.

Horus tried to do the same thing, but he wasn't as serious about it as Guilliman. Dorn, Vulkan, Corax, and Sanguinius were also looking ahead to the end of the Crusade, but most of the other primarchs just didn't seem to give a shit or were avoiding thinking about it for whatever reason. There was one short story where the Emperor told Vulkan that his purpose after the Crusade would be to teach his brothers how to live in peacetime, but who knows if he was telling the truth or just saying whatever he needed to do to get Vulkan on side.

 

[Mikoyan]

What would cull the marines? 30k Imperium is so badly thought out.

The Thunder Warriors were hit after they all got in one place and decimated, how do you do that with 18 legions all over the galaxy? You can't even use a bioweapon as they are based on the Emprah's genes. Custodes aren't enough, if they were, they would have curbstomped Horus.

A never ending line of newer superwarriors! ...wait this is just GW's business plan.

 

[Humble Architect]

Horus tried to do the same thing, but he wasn't as serious about it as Guilliman. Dorn, Vulkan, Corax, and Sanguinius were also looking ahead to the end of the Crusade, but most of the other primarchs just didn't seem to give a shit or were avoiding thinking about it for whatever reason. There was one short story where the Emperor told Vulkan that his purpose after the Crusade would be to teach his brothers how to live in peacetime, but who knows if he was telling the truth or just saying whatever he needed to do to get Vulkan on side.

Horus was more concerned with his cult of personality and being the man. I maintain he was on the path before Davin, the man was an egotist on par with Fulgrim, he just wasn’t a fag about it.

That’s why I hear Iacton Qruze as Mike Ehermantraut, just an old grunt who lived too long who’s sick and tired of bald sociopaths ruining everything.

“We had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch! We had Fring. We had a lab. We had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork. You could've shut your mouth, cooked and made as much money as you ever needed. It was perfect. But, no, you just had to blow it up. You and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man. If you'd done your job, known your place, we'd all be fine right now.”

Qruze saw right through his Primarch, long before the Davin bs happened.

 

[Male Idiot]

And culling the marines is just one of the problems. The other is, what if they suddenly need marines again?

If the Emprah wasn't written as a giant reddit toddler, he would at least just put them in statsis under Mars like the smarter Cawl.

That way when tyranids/necrons/whatever alien menace shows up, you just take them out, than they go back in. They did end up doing that with Dreadnoughts anyway.

How come non of these super wise people though that a new race may show up, or come from another galaxy, and they would desperately need marines?

 

[That Chris Guy]

AoS wasn't announced a year in advance with preorders or anything. There wasn't anything to be boycotting. WHFB already weren't buying product. Once AoS launched, GW wasn't going to reverse course and immediately bring back WHFB. AoS brought in a massive influx of new players, with a lot of the older ones initially not bothering for the first year or so till the generals handbook came out due shit like not having points, abilities based on people yelling the loudest and other dumb crap(nagash's stupid hand of dust thing is still in the game for 4.0... fucking ridiculous).

Fair enough, then. I still maintain that if there was enough negative sentiment, something could have been done to avoid the precedent, but we're well past that point now. The only real thing that could hurt the Warhammer IP now is if the general integrity and atmosphere of their universe was soured so people don't want to make armies anymore, and GW has stayed clear on this. They've kept all the common avenues for social politics to worm their way into a franchise (lack of representation, all the -isms and -phobias, etc.) extremely well-contained by simply being about perpetual war and very little else.

Hence, AoS players shouldn't be surprised that BoC is being taken out entirely. There's a long history of this now; the foundation of AoS was built on the ruins of WHFB, and the myriad side games that have been started and dropped over the years means I look at something like Aeronautica or Legiones Imperialis and my first impression is usually, "Dead Game". The Bonesplitters and BoC exodus is just par for the course, and while it's laughable that the golden boys had the Sacrosanct chamber thrown out when they're still relatively new, I would think it was established by this point that GW can and will fuck with whatever your prized faction/collection may be.

I haven't read much AoS lore past Soul Wars myself. The factions have distinctly improved over time in their various expressions, but in my opinion, the world has not. There is an obvious reason for the Mortal Realms in that any model with any colour or terrain can be made and it has some place where it could make sense in the canon, but for me the looser nature of the place just feels like Random Magical Bullshit Simulator and is less engaging.

As far as relaunching models and price hikes not doing much, I'd say their stock value shows the opposite as the skyrocket began even before covid.

...Thank you for your support? I was saying that even though they launched Primaris, which some older SM players chafed under, and the hobby is now far more expensive than it's ever been, GW shows no signs of slowing down. Thus whatever they take out of AoS, all of which is not nearly as popular as Space Marines, is unlikely to hurt them.

The brettonian and tomb kings boxes for TOW are already at a much lower price point per model(even before factoring in a cost for the books and other items in those boxes) than the rest of GWs product line, and people still bitch about how expensive they are. The tomb kings box? 93 models for $290 is an average of $3.11 per model. The brettonian box is $3.35 per model, again ignoring the larger centerpiece models, books, etc. For 40k to hit that pricing, you'd need a $160 combat patrol to have 50 models in the box. Yet people were still claiming at launch that those TOW boxes were just too expensive. Even other companies aren't trying to hit anything close to $3 a model in a starter/army box.

I don't have an issue with the main boxes, I'm more talking about the other models in the range outside of the boxed set, like the $60 Grail Knights. The prices now look like how much they cost in Australian dollarydoos some 20 years ago, and that's in USD.

 

[p1138]

...Thank you for your support? I was saying that even though they launched Primaris, which some older SM players chafed under, and the hobby is now far more expensive than it's ever been, GW shows no signs of slowing down. Thus whatever they take out of AoS, all of which is not nearly as popular as Space Marines, is unlikely to hurt them.

I'll clarify a little further what I meant. I don't think it's simply unlikely to hurt them, if anything it'll be another massive boost to their bottom line.

I don't have an issue with the main boxes, I'm more talking about the other models in the range outside of the boxed set, like the $60 Grail Knights. The prices now look like how much they cost in Australian dollarydoos some 20 years ago, and that's in USD.

That's true, but it's actually not entirely as bad as you might expect. Here's the 2004 tomb kings and brettonian price lists from the 2004 US catalog

http://www.solegends.com/citcat2004us/c2004usp0826-00.jpg

http://www.solegends.com/citcat2004us/c2004usp0441-00.jpg

(you can view the whole thing here if you want http://www.solegends.com/citcat2004us/index.htm )
a unit of 3 skeleton chariots was $30. Inflation brings that to $50. Yes GW has done some markup to $60, but my point is it's not entirely GW alone(yes they're being shitty, just not as shitty as they could be). Grail knights? $9 each, inflation brings it to 44. Of course also factor in that's $60 MSRP, and the better shops tend to give 10-15% off. Even ushabti they're asking $85 for, were $15/each in 2004, with inflation is $75

I will point out that a pack of 5 attilan rough riders is $60 for a group of dudes on horseback which is cheaper per model, and they're newer/better sculpts.

GW could be fucking TOW players far far worse than they actually are. The fact that people are buying into what GW likely knows will turn out to be a dead game soon enough is already bad enough.

I haven't read much AoS lore past Soul Wars myself. The factions have distinctly improved over time in their various expressions, but in my opinion, the world has not. There is an obvious reason for the Mortal Realms in that any model with any colour or terrain can be made and it has some place where it could make sense in the canon, but for me the looser nature of the place just feels like Random Magical Bullshit Simulator and is less engaging.

It's pretty fucking awful and generic to be honest. I don't buy the any model with any color or terrain reason either. Fact is even in WHFB the world had enough varied lands that there were plenty of terrain options available anyway for basing shit. And as far as colors of models... same goes with any other game, if they're my minis I'll paint them however I damn well please and you can do the same for all I care. It's a fictional fantasy game with magic and shit, those turbo autist button counters(the type who will count buttons on the coat of a 15mm historical infantry mini and complain if the number isn't accurate) who bitch if a uniform coat isn't the exact shade of blue it supposedly was historically can get bent. No one has time for their shit in a fantasy game no matter what year it's set in.

What the mortal realms garbage did allow GW to do, was narratively fling whatever factions they want at eachother in the associated fiction without consideration of held territory. How did the lizard men end up fighting humans up north in the snow? doesn't matter, they just walked through a stargate or whatever the fuck and appeared there not needing to have fought their way through the various other armies on the way. The actual setting has been dumbed down so anyone can come up with any reason or timeframe to smash their minis into an army of someone else's minis

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

What would cull the marines? 30k Imperium is so badly thought out.

The Thunder Warriors were hit after they all got in one place and decimated, how do you do that with 18 legions all over the galaxy? You can't even use a bioweapon as they are based on the Emprah's genes. Custodes aren't enough, if they were, they would have curbstomped Horus.

Probably some gene Virus, combined with exterminatus bombs, or choosing one chapter like Space Wolves to kill everyone else for the privilege of being kept around.

And culling the marines is just one of the problems. The other is, what if they suddenly need marines again?

If the Emprah wasn't written as a giant reddit toddler, he would at least just put them in statsis under Mars like the smarter Cawl.

That way when tyranids/necrons/whatever alien menace shows up, you just take them out, than they go back in. They did end up doing that with Dreadnoughts anyway.

How come non of these super wise people though that a new race may show up, or come from another galaxy, and they would desperately need marines?

A fuck you fleet and a Guard that is actually well equipped with power armor and weapons. It's not like SM are the only ones who can fight, they are just extra useful in that you can throw them at anything without much logistics.

Edit: Also the whole "make humanity a psyker race".

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

Stormcast Eternals were a bloated faction but the amount of kits them removed was surprising to me considering some were fairly new. But what I will ask the least players how does it feel to see a nine year old plastic kit get a refresh and you still don’t have new warp spiders yet?

 

[p1138]

The Thunder Warriors were hit after they all got in one place and decimated, how do you do that with 18 legions all over the galaxy? You can't even use a bioweapon as they are based on the Emprah's genes. Custodes aren't enough, if they were, they would have curbstomped Horus.

So they actually cover that in the last few siege of terra books with Basilio Fo and the terminus decree(yes, the thing vaguely mentioned previously in a grey knights codex) regarding a bioweapon and space marines.

A fuck you fleet and a Guard that is actually well equipped with power armor and weapons. It's not like SM are the only ones who can fight, they are just extra useful in that you can throw them at anything without much logistics.

Also presumably if Magnus hadn't fucked up the webway and Horus hadn't thrown his tantrum, the emperor would have had time to continue having people develop things as humanity wouldn't be locked into a technologically stagnant state. Plus chaos wouldn't have as much opportunity to mess with people, as travel through the warp would have eventually been eliminated(as well as the navigators and their monopoly on being needed to get anywhere). That all could have led to the imperial guard being far stronger in 1000 more years(remember, the timeline between the emperor popping up and unifying terra, and the start of the heresy was only around 500 years or so, and the heresy itself was only 10 I think if you count starting from his "fall"?) while the tyranids wouldn't show up for ages(same with GSC), the guard can already deal with eldar and dark eldar to an extent, most of the necrons wouldn't start waking up for thousands of years, the tau could have been eliminated due to not having 10 other things to deal with(or properly negotiated with as the imperium wouldn't be a dumpster fire), chaos space marines wouldn't exist and far fewer chaos forces in general would exist, and squats 2.0 would have probably been negotiated with.

 

[AeroGavin Rossdale]

New commute has given me ample time for audio books. Any suggestions for something more investigative than 'Shoot cultists with bolters until bad guy monologues his retarded plan'?

 

[AncientPhosphur]

New commute has given me ample time for audio books. Any suggestions for something more investigative than 'Shoot cultists with bolters until bad guy monologues his retarded plan'?

Check out Krieg if you haven’t. It covers the Death Korps of Krieg battling Orks in support of Cadians while Inquistors do their own mission and get curious about what the Krieg are and travels back in time to what the civil war on Krieg was like.

 

[Humble Architect]

New commute has given me ample time for audio books. Any suggestions for something more investigative than 'Shoot cultists with bolters until bad guy monologues his retarded plan'?

Forges of Mars, it’s an omnibus of the Mars trilogy but unlike other omnis the books feel like one msssive story, it has a lot of factions represented and it’s literally just the 40k version of Atlantis: The Lost Empire, you get everything from a Rogue Trader and crew, Tech Priests, Skitarri, ship slaves, Black Templars, some xenos and insight into the actual workings of the Mechanicus and how their “worship tech” ideology works and holds up the Imperium.

I don’t know if that’s what the writer was going for, but the 2000s kid in me was very happy.

There’s also some Star Trek and Dead Space vibes, you know, exploring the unknown and dealing with the consequences. Also, Tech Priests with nuance who have lives, family, friends, fears and aspirations. You ever see a Tech Priest as a father? This book has that.

 

[Male Idiot]

I know HH had a retarded bioweapon arc. I also find it silly, as it would wipe out all of the gene line.

Primarchs, marines, but also custodes and Emprah. So that's not an option, unless Big E really wants to Sudoku and figured out an alternative to the Astronomican, and good fucking luck with IG trying to do anything against necrons. The tyranids are more of a numbers game, but the crons, yeah, they would have fucked them sideways as their guns don't give a shit about power armour. You are either fast enough to dodge, or you get vapourised.

 

[TheCrackMonkey]

Unfortunately it looks like Slaaanesh cultists have breached the gate.

https://ghostarchive.org/archive/gylC5

 

[Humble Architect]

Unfortunately it looks like Slaaanesh cultists have breached the gate.

View attachment 5883608

https://ghostarchive.org/archive/gylC5

Frankly that’s what anyone who subscribes to this magazine deserves.